17:00:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:00:29 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/28-aria-irc
17:00:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:00:30 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
17:00:49 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
17:00:54 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
17:01:04 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
17:01:04 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
17:01:05 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/ecffaf8b-8aa7-4acc-b238-6088a86cf12f/20230928T130000/
17:01:05 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:01:05 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/46tYVGa
17:01:05 <agendabot> agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/46tYXhg
17:01:07 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Decide what "draft PR" means https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2028
17:01:09 <Rahim> present+
17:01:10 <agendabot> agenda+ -> aria-controls spec update https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1996
17:01:13 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Clarification on aria-braillelabel SHOULD vs. MUST guidelines https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1995
17:01:16 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Support aria-readonly on rows in grids https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1972
17:01:19 <agendabot> agenda+ -> Consider creation of a fieldsize/maxlength property https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1119
17:01:22 <agendabot> agenda+ -> All Open PRs https://bit.ly/aria-open-prs
17:01:27 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page has joined #aria
17:01:31 <scotto> scotto has joined #aria
17:02:52 <Francis_Storr> present+
17:04:31 <sarah_h> sarah_h has joined #aria
17:04:35 <Rahim> scribe: Rahim
17:04:37 <Adam_Page> present+
17:04:40 <sarah_h> present+
17:04:48 <Rahim> zakim, next item
17:04:48 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/46tYVGa -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:04:52 <StefanS> present+
17:05:03 <giacomo-petri> giacomo-petri has joined #aria
17:05:05 <giacomo-petri> present+
17:07:19 <jcraig> present+
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17:12:35 <StefanS> q+
17:12:51 <melsumner> present+
17:13:49 <jamesn> ack StefanS
17:14:11 <StefanS> q-
17:14:31 <jcraig> q+
17:15:05 <melsumner> maybe a different label, future-consideration
17:15:20 <Rahim> jamesn: For https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2046, no real need to denote content is AI generated; no strong impetus to do something with this at the moment
17:15:28 <scotto> q+
17:15:48 <jamesn> ack jc
17:16:56 <jamesn> ack scotto
17:16:56 <Rahim> jcraig: One main challenge is autogenerated descriptions; this is interesting because alt could be blank, or AI generated alt as separate attribute. Or, specify set of things AI generated about a particular (a11y) node
17:18:29 <Rahim> scotto: May have practical value in announcing ai generated content at the page level; if content is AI generated, it should be conveyed as such visually and programmatically. I'm OK with a metadata conveying something is AI generated however, must be exposed that way for everyone. There's a separate conversation about AI vs author generated text alternatives
17:18:30 <melsumner> +1 for this being an HTML attribute
17:19:06 <melsumner> q+
17:20:09 <Rahim> jamesn: Need to present same information (that something is AI generated) to everybody
17:21:13 <jcraig> s/(a11y) node/(a11y) node. The important part is which parts of this page, or node, are AI-generated./
17:21:26 <jamesn> ack melsumner
17:22:19 <Rahim> melsumner: Should be handled by HTML markup
17:22:37 <GautierC> GautierC has joined #aria
17:22:56 <scotto> present+
17:25:35 <Rahim> zakim, next item
17:25:35 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/46tYXhg -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:26:00 <StefanS> StefanS has joined #aria
17:26:09 <StefanS> present+
17:28:25 <jamesn> agenda?
17:30:05 <jcraig> looks like the WPT PRs have fallen off the agenda
17:31:00 <Rahim> zakim, next item
17:31:00 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> Decide what "draft PR" means https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2028 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:32:55 <Rahim> scotto: Times that I've submitted PRs and need help finishing them and then they turn into "draft PRs"; if you don't need a review, don't submit the PR. Could have a separate label
17:33:13 <Rahim> jamesn: Will assign to myself/Valerie for future discussion
17:33:58 <Rahim> zakim, next item
17:33:58 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> aria-controls spec update https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1996 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:34:24 <Rahim> jamesn: Waiting on my review
17:34:52 <Rahim> jamesn: Could have a "not ready for merge" label
17:36:16 <Rahim> zakim, next item
17:36:16 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> Clarification on aria-braillelabel SHOULD vs. MUST guidelines https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1995 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:37:48 <Rahim> pkra: Ultimately, I agree with this issue (that they should be MUST)
17:38:07 <jamesn> q?
17:38:12 <melsumner> @jcraig yes will do, thanks for the reminder
17:39:36 <Adam_Page> jcraig, ack, yes will do
17:40:42 <Rahim> jcraig: Might be some scenarios where you want to mix braille and plain text; worth considering separating conditions for aria-braillelabel usage requirements
17:40:48 <jamesn> q+
17:40:53 <pkra> q+
17:41:08 <jamesn> ack me
17:42:16 <Rahim> jamesn: Looking at condition 2 (the value of aria-braillelabel is not empty...); is there a scenario where a label is redundant because the value is known (e.g., currency)
17:42:39 <Rahim> Cory: Everything that's been a braille error was also a visual copy error
17:43:50 <jamesn> ack pkra
17:45:23 <Rahim> pkra: Worth testing braille pattern characters across platforms (VoiceOver, Orca)
17:45:33 <jamesn> q+
17:46:40 <jamesn> ack me
17:47:37 <Rahim> pkra: Consider an image with an empty alt, how is name (and braillelabel) considered
17:49:03 <jcraig> q?
17:49:19 <Rahim> jamesn: Move to a future (ARIA) version?
17:50:42 <Rahim> No concerns on my end with leaving spec as is and closing it
17:51:18 <Rahim> zakim, next item
17:51:18 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- -> Support aria-readonly on rows in grids https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1972 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:52:49 <scotto> q+
17:53:00 <jamesn> qv?
17:53:15 <jamesn> ack scotto
17:53:29 <Rahim> MarioBatusic: It's a good idea to have ability to put aria-readonly on an entire row; might have instances where you can see data but aren't able to modify it
17:54:46 <Adam_Page> q+
17:55:13 <Rahim> scotto: Should aria-readonly propagate to child controls (e.g., form controls in a grid cell)
17:55:29 <melsumner> side question: are there good examples of reasons to use aria-readonly instead of the html attribute?
17:56:26 <jamesn> ack Adam_Page
17:57:02 <Rahim> Adam_Page: RE: Scott's question on inheritance of read only state, does this apply to the disabled state as well?
17:58:29 <Rahim> scotto: There's many "worms" (edge cases) to consider, e.g., putting required on a <fieldset> and how state propagates
17:59:12 <jamesn> agenda?
17:59:14 <Rahim> scotto: It's a real problem, putting required/disabled on elements and what the actual author intent is
17:59:45 <Rahim> Siri: We use row/grid on tables with interactive elements; if there are no interactive elements, does this automatically mean they are "read only"?
18:01:30 <Rahim> melsumner: Is it because a grid cell can be editable; in such case, you may want to use aria-readonly on a cell
18:02:46 <Rahim> zakim, end meeting
18:02:46 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Rahim, Francis_Storr, Adam_Page, sarah_h, StefanS, giacomo-petri, jcraig, melsumner, scotto
18:02:48 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:02:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/28-aria-minutes.html Zakim
18:02:57 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Rahim; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
18:02:57 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
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18:09:29 <Rahim> s/No concerns on my end with leaving spec as is and closing it /Rahim: No concerns on my end with leaving spec as is and closing it
18:10:57 <Rahim> rrsagent, make minutes
18:10:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/28-aria-minutes.html Rahim
18:18:29 <Rahim> s/No concerns on my end with leaving spec as is and closing it/Rahim: No concerns on my end with leaving spec as is and closing it/
18:18:37 <Rahim> rrsagent, make minutes
18:18:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/28-aria-minutes.html Rahim
18:32:32 <Rahim> present + Cory, jamesn, MarioBatusic, pkra, Siri
18:32:46 <Rahim> rrsagent, make minutes
18:32:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/28-aria-minutes.html Rahim