IRC log of aria on 2023-09-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:00:25 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:00:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/28-aria-irc
17:00:29 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:00:30 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
17:00:49 [jamesn]
meeting: ARIA WG
17:00:54 [jamesn]
chair: JamesNurthen
17:01:04 [jamesn]
agendabot, find agenda
17:01:04 [agendabot]
jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
17:01:05 [agendabot]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/ecffaf8b-8aa7-4acc-b238-6088a86cf12f/20230928T130000/
17:01:05 [agendabot]
clear agenda
17:01:05 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/46tYVGa
17:01:05 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/46tYXhg
17:01:07 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> Decide what "draft PR" means https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2028
17:01:09 [Rahim]
present+
17:01:10 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> aria-controls spec update https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1996
17:01:13 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> Clarification on aria-braillelabel SHOULD vs. MUST guidelines https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1995
17:01:16 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> Support aria-readonly on rows in grids https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1972
17:01:19 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> Consider creation of a fieldsize/maxlength property https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1119
17:01:22 [agendabot]
agenda+ -> All Open PRs https://bit.ly/aria-open-prs
17:01:27 [Adam_Page]
Adam_Page has joined #aria
17:01:31 [scotto]
scotto has joined #aria
17:02:52 [Francis_Storr]
present+
17:04:31 [sarah_h]
sarah_h has joined #aria
17:04:35 [Rahim]
scribe: Rahim
17:04:37 [Adam_Page]
present+
17:04:40 [sarah_h]
present+
17:04:48 [Rahim]
zakim, next item
17:04:48 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/46tYVGa -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:04:52 [StefanS]
present+
17:05:03 [giacomo-petri]
giacomo-petri has joined #aria
17:05:05 [giacomo-petri]
present+
17:07:19 [jcraig]
present+
17:10:15 [melsumner]
melsumner has joined #aria
17:12:35 [StefanS]
q+
17:12:51 [melsumner]
present+
17:13:49 [jamesn]
ack StefanS
17:14:11 [StefanS]
q-
17:14:31 [jcraig]
q+
17:15:05 [melsumner]
maybe a different label, future-consideration
17:15:20 [Rahim]
jamesn: For https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2046, no real need to denote content is AI generated; no strong impetus to do something with this at the moment
17:15:28 [scotto]
q+
17:15:48 [jamesn]
ack jc
17:16:56 [jamesn]
ack scotto
17:16:56 [Rahim]
jcraig: One main challenge is autogenerated descriptions; this is interesting because alt could be blank, or AI generated alt as separate attribute. Or, specify set of things AI generated about a particular (a11y) node
17:18:29 [Rahim]
scotto: May have practical value in announcing ai generated content at the page level; if content is AI generated, it should be conveyed as such visually and programmatically. I'm OK with a metadata conveying something is AI generated however, must be exposed that way for everyone. There's a separate conversation about AI vs author generated text alternatives
17:18:30 [melsumner]
+1 for this being an HTML attribute
17:19:06 [melsumner]
q+
17:20:09 [Rahim]
jamesn: Need to present same information (that something is AI generated) to everybody
17:21:13 [jcraig]
s/(a11y) node/(a11y) node. The important part is which parts of this page, or node, are AI-generated./
17:21:26 [jamesn]
ack melsumner
17:22:19 [Rahim]
melsumner: Should be handled by HTML markup
17:22:37 [GautierC]
GautierC has joined #aria
17:22:56 [scotto]
present+
17:25:35 [Rahim]
zakim, next item
17:25:35 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/46tYXhg -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:26:00 [StefanS]
StefanS has joined #aria
17:26:09 [StefanS]
present+
17:28:25 [jamesn]
agenda?
17:30:05 [jcraig]
looks like the WPT PRs have fallen off the agenda
17:31:00 [Rahim]
zakim, next item
17:31:00 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- -> Decide what "draft PR" means https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/2028 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:32:55 [Rahim]
scotto: Times that I've submitted PRs and need help finishing them and then they turn into "draft PRs"; if you don't need a review, don't submit the PR. Could have a separate label
17:33:13 [Rahim]
jamesn: Will assign to myself/Valerie for future discussion
17:33:58 [Rahim]
zakim, next item
17:33:58 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- -> aria-controls spec update https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1996 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:34:24 [Rahim]
jamesn: Waiting on my review
17:34:52 [Rahim]
jamesn: Could have a "not ready for merge" label
17:36:16 [Rahim]
zakim, next item
17:36:16 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- -> Clarification on aria-braillelabel SHOULD vs. MUST guidelines https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1995 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:37:48 [Rahim]
pkra: Ultimately, I agree with this issue (that they should be MUST)
17:38:07 [jamesn]
q?
17:38:12 [melsumner]
@jcraig yes will do, thanks for the reminder
17:39:36 [Adam_Page]
jcraig, ack, yes will do
17:40:42 [Rahim]
jcraig: Might be some scenarios where you want to mix braille and plain text; worth considering separating conditions for aria-braillelabel usage requirements
17:40:48 [jamesn]
q+
17:40:53 [pkra]
q+
17:41:08 [jamesn]
ack me
17:42:16 [Rahim]
jamesn: Looking at condition 2 (the value of aria-braillelabel is not empty...); is there a scenario where a label is redundant because the value is known (e.g., currency)
17:42:39 [Rahim]
Cory: Everything that's been a braille error was also a visual copy error
17:43:50 [jamesn]
ack pkra
17:45:23 [Rahim]
pkra: Worth testing braille pattern characters across platforms (VoiceOver, Orca)
17:45:33 [jamesn]
q+
17:46:40 [jamesn]
ack me
17:47:37 [Rahim]
pkra: Consider an image with an empty alt, how is name (and braillelabel) considered
17:49:03 [jcraig]
q?
17:49:19 [Rahim]
jamesn: Move to a future (ARIA) version?
17:50:42 [Rahim]
No concerns on my end with leaving spec as is and closing it
17:51:18 [Rahim]
zakim, next item
17:51:18 [Zakim]
agendum 6 -- -> Support aria-readonly on rows in grids https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1972 -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:52:49 [scotto]
q+
17:53:00 [jamesn]
qv?
17:53:15 [jamesn]
ack scotto
17:53:29 [Rahim]
MarioBatusic: It's a good idea to have ability to put aria-readonly on an entire row; might have instances where you can see data but aren't able to modify it
17:54:46 [Adam_Page]
q+
17:55:13 [Rahim]
scotto: Should aria-readonly propagate to child controls (e.g., form controls in a grid cell)
17:55:29 [melsumner]
side question: are there good examples of reasons to use aria-readonly instead of the html attribute?
17:56:26 [jamesn]
ack Adam_Page
17:57:02 [Rahim]
Adam_Page: RE: Scott's question on inheritance of read only state, does this apply to the disabled state as well?
17:58:29 [Rahim]
scotto: There's many "worms" (edge cases) to consider, e.g., putting required on a <fieldset> and how state propagates
17:59:12 [jamesn]
agenda?
17:59:14 [Rahim]
scotto: It's a real problem, putting required/disabled on elements and what the actual author intent is
17:59:45 [Rahim]
Siri: We use row/grid on tables with interactive elements; if there are no interactive elements, does this automatically mean they are "read only"?
18:01:30 [Rahim]
melsumner: Is it because a grid cell can be editable; in such case, you may want to use aria-readonly on a cell
18:02:46 [Rahim]
zakim, end meeting
18:02:46 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Rahim, Francis_Storr, Adam_Page, sarah_h, StefanS, giacomo-petri, jcraig, melsumner, scotto
18:02:48 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:02:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/28-aria-minutes.html Zakim
18:02:57 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, Rahim; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
18:02:57 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #aria
18:03:59 [bkardell_]
bkardell_ has joined #aria
18:04:11 [melsumner]
melsumner has left #aria
18:09:29 [Rahim]
s/No concerns on my end with leaving spec as is and closing it /Rahim: No concerns on my end with leaving spec as is and closing it
18:10:57 [Rahim]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:10:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/28-aria-minutes.html Rahim
18:18:29 [Rahim]
s/No concerns on my end with leaving spec as is and closing it/Rahim: No concerns on my end with leaving spec as is and closing it/
18:18:37 [Rahim]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:18:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/28-aria-minutes.html Rahim
18:32:32 [Rahim]
present + Cory, jamesn, MarioBatusic, pkra, Siri
18:32:46 [Rahim]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:32:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/28-aria-minutes.html Rahim