IRC log of wot-td on 2023-09-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:24:46 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wot-td

14:24:50 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-irc

14:25:00 [kaz]

meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF

14:26:05 [kaz]

present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Jan_Romann

14:26:39 [cris__]

present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi

14:28:05 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

14:28:08 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:28:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:28:18 [kaz]

chair: Ege

14:28:54 [mjk]

mjk has joined #wot-td

14:29:22 [kaz]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#September_27.2C_2023

14:30:45 [kaz]

present+ Michael_Koster

14:30:50 [kaz]

chair+ Koster

14:31:00 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:31:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:32:15 [JKRhb]

scribenick: JKRhb

14:32:37 [JKRhb]

topic: Agenda

14:32:48 [JKRhb]

ek: (goes over today's agenda)

14:33:00 [kaz]

i|goes|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#September_27.2C_2023 agenda for today|

14:33:09 [kaz]

present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima

14:33:48 [JKRhb]

... maybe we should prioritize the agenda on Thing Description, the PRs regarding the 1.1 publication are very important

14:33:52 [JKRhb]

... anything else?

14:34:24 [JKRhb]

mk: We should have the resource questions resolved, and then afterward discuss TPAC, I agree

14:34:31 [JKRhb]

topic: Minutes Review

14:34:33 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/20-wot-td-minutes.html Sep-20

14:34:56 [JKRhb]

ek: I went through the minutes, they look fine, thank you for fixing the remaining issues

14:35:02 [JKRhb]

... does anyone else have anything to fix?

14:35:12 [JKRhb]

No comments, minutes are approved

14:35:20 [JKRhb]

topic: Thing Description 1.1

14:35:37 [JKRhb]

subtopic: PR 1844

14:35:59 [JKRhb]

ek: There was a discussion if we should allow the op value be an empty array

14:36:15 [JKRhb]

... Luca mentioned that in other places an empty array is allowed

14:36:35 [JKRhb]

... I went through all the array types in TD and there is some inconsistency

14:37:09 [JKRhb]

... however, some values cannot be fixed, e.g., required, since it is defined this way by JSON Schema

14:37:16 [kaz]

i|There was|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1844 PR 1844 - Update schema to not allow empty op array|

14:37:23 [JKRhb]

... there was also an discussion with Thomas Jaeckle in the PR

14:37:25 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

14:37:29 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:37:30 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:38:08 [JKRhb]

... where he explained that in their software, they are adding something to an empty array in TM and always start with an empty one

14:38:23 [JKRhb]

... so we cannot mandate that the array should always be non-empty

14:38:43 [cris__]

+1

14:38:59 [JKRhb]

... so based on the discussion, my suggestion would be to only change op for now and then go through all of the other fields again in the next charter and document it for now

14:39:08 [JKRhb]

... Luca also has agreed to that

14:39:25 [JKRhb]

... so we can create an issue now and then follow up on the topic later

14:39:36 [JKRhb]

... the PR itself only changes the JSON Schema by the way

14:39:41 [JKRhb]

... any comments?

14:39:46 [JKRhb]

... then I will merge the PR

14:39:56 [JKRhb]

... (adds a comment and merges the PR)

14:40:23 [JKRhb]

... (creates an issue to follow up on in the next charter)

14:41:59 [JKRhb]

subtopic: PR 1881

14:42:14 [JKRhb]

ek: This is another PR that is only making changes to the ontology

14:42:22 [JKRhb]

... fixes an issue spotted by Sebastian

14:42:32 [JKRhb]

... about the base URI

14:42:49 [JKRhb]

... but he made the changes to the resulting index.html document

14:42:59 [kaz]

i|This is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1881 PR 1881 - TD ontology fix v2|

14:43:06 [JKRhb]

... which is why Cristiano applied a proper fix to the ontology

14:43:23 [JKRhb]

... maybe you can explain Cristiano? As I see the comments are mostly resolved yet

14:43:32 [JKRhb]

ca: The PR does two things:

14:43:50 [JKRhb]

... changing AnnotationProperties to DataProperties

14:44:05 [JKRhb]

... these are changes Mahda and I agreed on in a previous PR

14:44:19 [Ege]

q?

14:44:42 [JKRhb]

... DatatypeProperty have certain advantages over AnnotationProperties

14:45:10 [JKRhb]

... my question is now, how to include the schema:rangeIncludes property

14:45:18 [JKRhb]

... as raised by Mahda

14:45:29 [JKRhb]

... I did not add it yet since I was not sure

14:45:40 [JKRhb]

... as it needs to be a URI

14:46:10 [JKRhb]

ek: I think profile already includes a URI

14:46:43 [JKRhb]

... the double anyUri or Array of anyURI is a bit annoying

14:46:53 [JKRhb]

... for now we cannot change it, though

14:47:13 [JKRhb]

ca: I think I also spotted some other properties that feature this rangeIncludes

14:47:46 [JKRhb]

... if we don't add them it is not an error, if we add it and it should be wrong, then it would cause problems for others, though

14:48:29 [JKRhb]

... in the cancellation property, there is a similar problem

14:48:49 [JKRhb]

... there we also have no rangeIncludes

14:48:59 [JKRhb]

... would not be the first one that does not include it

14:49:11 [JKRhb]

... but it is an objectProperty

14:49:26 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:49:27 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:50:36 [kaz]

i|I think I also|(Ege goes through the Editor's draft: https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/ )|

14:50:41 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:50:42 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:51:18 [JKRhb]

ca: To address Mahda's comments, we would need to add a rangeIncludes URI, but it is not actually correct, since we have some arrays in some places

14:51:25 [kaz]

present+ Mahda_Noura

14:51:55 [JKRhb]

Mahda has joined in the meantime, Cristiano gives a summary of the discussion so far

14:52:43 [JKRhb]

mn: Why can't we simply put the range as an anyUri?

14:52:50 [JKRhb]

ca: It is not a URI, though

14:53:01 [JKRhb]

... however, then we are not modelling the array case

14:53:04 [kaz]

-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#table-vocabulary-terms-in-thing-level Table 3 - Vocabulary Terms in Thing Level

14:53:16 [JKRhb]

... also, a URI is not necessarily a URL

14:53:38 [JKRhb]

mn: I then need to check how to model this if have two types

14:53:45 [JKRhb]

ca: Can we merge it for now?

14:54:35 [JKRhb]

mn: Sure, syntactically it is fine, but not semantically, since you need both domain and range. We can merge it now and add a Todo to follow up on it later

14:54:48 [JKRhb]

ek: (adds a comment to the PR)

14:55:12 [JKRhb]

ca: The PR also adds the possibility to render the AnnotationProperties correctly by the way

14:55:24 [JKRhb]

... adding an Annotation Property section

14:55:47 [JKRhb]

... for the TD I left two Annotation Properties, let's leave them there for now and maybe change them later

14:56:22 [JKRhb]

ek: There should be another header in the ontology document as well right?

14:56:35 [JKRhb]

... (goes through the PR diff and finds it eventually)

14:57:07 [JKRhb]

ek: Any objections to merging this?

14:57:33 [JKRhb]

... I will quickly add a follow-up issue and assign it to Mahda

14:58:14 [JKRhb]

... (merges the PR, creates the issue)

14:58:49 [kaz]

(Mahda leaves)

14:59:16 [JKRhb]

subtopic: Resources and Namespaces

14:59:41 [kaz]

s/Mahda has/(Mahda has/

14:59:45 [kaz]

s/so far/so far)/

14:59:51 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:59:52 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

15:00:08 [JKRhb]

ek: We have the NAMESPACES.md file to describe the current and the desired state regarding namespaces

15:00:24 [kaz]

i|NAMES|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/NAMESPACES.md NAMESPACES.md|

15:00:42 [JKRhb]

... for the desired state we will wait until everything has been moved to the wot-resources repository

15:01:11 [JKRhb]

... in the main call we had a resolution to create the repository for resources

15:01:40 [JKRhb]

... in the TD repository, we will be using the publication folder tentatively for resources

15:03:00 [JKRhb]

... the question is which kind of folder structure we want – should we follow the one from the master branch or create a different one?

15:03:42 [JKRhb]

ca: I don't have a strong preference

15:04:46 [JKRhb]

ek: There is the question where the static versions of the files should go

15:05:10 [JKRhb]

ca: If the WoT resources are static or a vault, we should only have one file

15:05:17 [JKRhb]

... otherwise there will be confusion

15:05:53 [JKRhb]

... of course there might be a bit of confusion that the same file is available under two URLs, but we should add some documentation then

15:07:15 [JKRhb]

ek: (adds a comment to NAMESPACES.md explaining that some of the same changed files are used for both TD 1.0 and 1.1)

15:07:57 [JKRhb]

... is anyone opposed to quickly adding this note?

15:08:19 [JKRhb]

No objections are raised, Ege commits the changes to the main branch

15:09:29 [JKRhb]

ek: That means we can merge this PR (1862) now, moving the context and JSON schema file to the publication/rec folder

15:09:36 [JKRhb]

... any objections to merging the PR?

15:10:00 [kaz]

q+

15:10:59 [JKRhb]

kaz: Tentatively, this is fine, but for TD 2.0 we should think about a URL like /ns/wot/ without the date and maybe add an alias

15:11:01 [kaz]

ack k

15:11:30 [JKRhb]

ek: I agree, already looks a bit funny that we are using a URL with an outdated year

15:11:32 [JKRhb]

... (adds a comment and merges the PR)

15:13:09 [JKRhb]

ek: Similar changes are applied for TD 1.1 in PR 1863

15:13:31 [JKRhb]

... here, we also need to update the schema since we just changed them

15:14:18 [kaz]

s|/ns/wot/|www.w3.org/ns/wot/ as the base URI|

15:14:25 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:14:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

15:14:32 [kaz]

q+

15:15:30 [kaz]

scribenick: mjk

15:16:32 [kaz]

i|1863|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1863 PR 1863 - Add tentative rec11 resources|

15:16:36 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:16:38 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

15:20:04 [Ege]

q?

15:20:07 [kaz]

jr: wondering about "1.1" from "td-context-1.1.jsonld"

15:20:17 [kaz]

ack k

15:20:18 [mjk]

jkr: maybe there could be a script to check for consistency

15:20:48 [kaz]

i/jkr/ek: that means JSON-LD 1.1./

15:21:15 [kaz]

s/JSON-LD 1.1./not WoT Thing Description 1.1 but JSON-LD 1.1./

15:21:20 [mjk]

ege: note that the 1.1 in the context file name refers to JSON LD 1.1

15:21:42 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:21:43 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

15:21:49 [mjk]

ege: any more comments?

15:22:25 [mjk]

ege:L any objections to merging #1863?

15:22:33 [mjk]

s/L//

15:22:38 [mjk]

... merged

15:24:00 [mjk]

subtopic: PR# 1886 REC version preparation

15:24:11 [kaz]

q+

15:24:33 [mjk]

ege: an errata link is required

15:25:03 [mjk]

kaz: the errata URL is required for 1.0 also, and links to github issues

15:26:48 [mjk]

ege: the errata is in the main branch, and doesn't change with version

15:27:01 [mjk]

kaz: we can use errata11 for example

15:27:16 [mjk]

... this is the basic problem with reusing the repository

15:27:45 [mjk]

ege: we would need to version the github issues also

15:28:07 [mjk]

kaz: 1.1 is a minor update so can use the same repository

15:29:19 [mjk]

kaz: we can fix this after publication

15:30:07 [mjk]

... will talk with webmaster

15:31:53 [mjk]

ege: how do we manage references to other specs?

15:32:10 [mjk]

kaz: we will preassign URLs and know what they are

15:32:31 [mjk]

... we will know the publication dates

15:32:42 [kaz]

s|we can fix this after publication|note that https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description/ will be automatically redirected to WoT Thing Description 1.1.|

15:33:10 [mjk]

ege: creating an issue for versioned errata documents

15:33:38 [kaz]

s/Description 1.1./Description 1.1. So probably it would be safer to use "errata.html" for TD 1.1, and let TD 1.0 REC use "errata10.html" or something like that./

15:35:03 [mjk]

... we should use the non-versioned file name for the most recent file

15:35:33 [mjk]

... this is the complication with the automatically redirected URLs

15:35:44 [mjk]

... I will look into it after this call

15:36:19 [mjk]

topic: binding templates

15:36:41 [mjk]

subtopic: vocabulary creation guide PR #298

15:38:24 [kaz]

i/... we should/kaz: probably we should/

15:38:24 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:38:25 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

15:38:31 [mjk]

ege: I have reviewed and it looks good

15:39:08 [mjk]

cris: mjk should review to see if it answers questions

15:39:37 [kaz]

i|I have|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/298 PR 298 - Add additional explanations to vocabulary creation guide|

15:40:23 [mjk]

ege: can we merge #282?

15:40:44 [mjk]

... merge conflict, needs rebase

15:42:20 [mjk]

subtopic: PR #209 bacnet binding

15:42:36 [mjk]

ege: is there anything to explain and review?

15:43:08 [mjk]

mjk: no new content until we add the resources files

15:43:53 [mjk]

ege: a new author is added, should we add to codeowners?

15:44:16 [JKRhb]

q+

15:45:59 [mjk]

... we will wait until the PR is merged to add the 3rd editor to the codeowners file

15:46:01 [Ege]

ack k

15:47:33 [kaz]

q+

15:47:44 [Ege]

ack j

15:49:57 [mjk]

kaz: OK to add the third editor at this time, but need to address the general case of third party contributors ird party contributi

15:50:21 [mjk]

s/contributi/contributors

15:51:07 [mjk]

subtopic: PR #296 - align JSON Schema for Modbus binding

15:51:46 [mjk]

cris: if there are any other misalignments, please let me know

15:52:06 [Ege]

q?

15:52:09 [Ege]

ack k

15:52:16 [kaz]

i|296|(Kaz has sent an invitation to fennibay for joining the wotwg-editors team)|

15:52:20 [mjk]

ege: AOB for today?

15:52:58 [kaz]

i|if there|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/296 PR 296 - Modbus: align the schema with the current ontology|

15:53:00 [mjk]

... adjourned

15:53:01 [kaz]

ack k

15:53:06 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:53:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-wot-td-minutes.html kaz