IRC log of i18n on 2023-09-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

05:04:59 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #i18n
05:05:03 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-irc
05:06:31 [xfq]
https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d737b1d9-bb00-4b14-9507-0338465ee8ed/20230926T220000/
05:06:59 [xfq]
florian: to follow up from TPAC
05:07:03 [xfq]
... generic font families
05:07:12 [xfq]
... I think there's news here
05:07:33 [xfq]
... it seems that the CSSWG position has changed
05:07:56 [xfq]
... previously I think our understanding of the CSSWG position was that they weren't sure about adding new generic font families
05:08:06 [xfq]
... that seems to no longer to be the case
05:08:10 [xfq]
... in the latest meeting
05:08:31 [xfq]
... the group thinks that if some new generic font families are useful
05:08:35 [xfq]
... then we can add them
05:08:39 [xfq]
... just tell us which
05:08:51 [xfq]
... I think that's a good improvement
05:09:04 [xfq]
... new generic font families will be in a function
05:09:27 [xfq]
... it will be something like generic(nastaliq)
05:09:36 [xfq]
... so we have a path forward
05:09:48 [xfq]
... the next task is to compile a list of generic font families
05:09:59 [xfq]
... I think it would be helpful to identify actual font faces
05:10:31 [xfq]
... I suspect although the CSSWG has not resolved on that that maybe we want to add the new generic font family names directly in the spec
05:10:45 [xfq]
... @@
05:11:01 [xfq]
... here's a list of fonts, here's what license they have, here's where we can find them
05:11:11 [xfq]
... maybe they're free, maybe they're not
05:11:29 [xfq]
... the article written by Richard
05:11:45 [xfq]
... was this meant to be the list of the most important ones to have?
05:12:10 [xfq]
... or do we have a longer list?
05:12:29 [xfq]
... basically can we create an action item for somebody to create that list?
05:12:45 [xfq]
https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/typography/fontstyles.en.html
05:13:26 [xfq]
xfq: @@
05:13:38 [xfq]
florian: I think it would be good to keep this document
05:13:55 [xfq]
... but we need to create a list of we want these to exist
05:15:17 [xfq]
Topic: Status of sideways-lr and sideways-rl in Writing Modes
05:15:50 [xfq]
florian: the status of spec is stable
05:15:57 [xfq]
... Firefox implements it
05:16:00 [xfq]
... nobody else
05:16:12 [xfq]
... I'm not aware of anything new
05:16:23 [xfq]
... it's really an implementation question
05:17:05 [xfq]
... I'm also interested if any language needs this
05:17:22 [xfq]
... or it's just a laytou feature
05:17:32 [xfq]
... if you find a particular language that needs this
05:17:45 [xfq]
... rather than just being a layout feature
05:18:04 [xfq]
... please let me know
05:19:24 [xfq]
Topic: Cutting Note (aka warichu in Japanese) is not supported
05:19:36 [xfq]
florian: it's a combination of a technical question and a lobbying question
05:19:53 [xfq]
... I'm not aware of implementer interest, and not aware of funding for this area
05:20:04 [xfq]
... maybe next time we have the CSSWG F2F this could be a topic
05:20:45 [xfq]
... do you know some browser engine is intersted in this?
05:20:59 [xfq]
xfq: nto that i'm aware of but i do know some publishers interested
05:21:10 [xfq]
florian: do we have an analysis of what's missing to make this work?
05:21:38 [xfq]
... because to some degree @@
05:22:06 [xfq]
... one interesteding part of the challenge is parens
05:22:14 [xfq]
... that problem might be shared with math
05:23:08 [xfq]
... I wonder if you have contacts in the math related working group
05:23:35 [xfq]
... we could ask them not so much in terms of markup because i don't think we're trying to share mark with mathml
05:23:41 [xfq]
... but in terms of layout
05:24:21 [xfq]
[Discuss the example in https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/109#issuecomment-675224780 ]
05:25:04 [xfq]
rrsagent, make log public
05:25:06 [xfq]
rrsagent, make minutes
05:25:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq
05:25:24 [xfq]
florian: I hand't paid attention to line breaking inside warichu so far
05:25:28 [xfq]
... that's interesteing
05:25:47 [atsushi]
https://w3c.github.io/jlreq/#handling_an_inline_cutting_note_when_it_straddles_two_kihonhanmen_lines
05:25:49 [xfq]
... I guess from a CSSWG point of view the point is not to solve it jsut for CJ
05:26:00 [xfq]
... is this a CJ only thing
05:26:12 [xfq]
... or do you knowo fo something similar that happens in other languages?
05:26:16 [xfq]
... is it always 2 lines
05:26:24 [xfq]
... or is it sometimes 3 or more?
05:26:45 [xfq]
atsushi: if we divide it into 3 or four lines
05:26:46 [xfq]
... it's too small
05:27:00 [xfq]
... warichu contains Kanji
05:27:46 [xfq]
florian: basically we need to control the font size
05:27:54 [atsushi]
https://w3c.github.io/jlreq/#h-note-135
05:27:55 [xfq]
... we need to be able to control how many lines
05:28:06 [xfq]
... we need to be able to get correct wrapping
05:28:13 [xfq]
... we need to be able to put parens around it
05:28:32 [xfq]
... I don't know if it should be automatic or not in terms of font size and line gap
05:29:05 [xfq]
... this example from jlreq is saying that the Chinese example shared eailer is not recommended style according to jlreq
05:30:03 [xfq]
xfq: semantically it is the same
05:30:40 [xfq]
Topic: Status of "characters to skip for emphasis marks"
05:32:21 [xfq]
https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/839
05:32:24 [florian]
https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-decor-3/#text-emphasis-style-property
05:33:00 [xfq]
[[
05:33:03 [xfq]
However, emphasis marks are not drawn for:
05:33:04 [xfq]
...
05:33:05 [xfq]
]]
05:34:09 [xfq]
florian: so for now we have criteria like this but it would be probably better @@
05:34:19 [xfq]
... it's possible that fantasai did
05:34:53 [xfq]
... I'll send her an email
05:35:57 [xfq]
florian: what's in the CSS spec now isn't wrong
05:36:08 [xfq]
... but it's kind of tricky to maintain this kind of thing
05:36:23 [florian]
s/isn't wrong/isn't wrong, at least not obviously
05:36:30 [xfq]
... it would be good if Unicode couuld maintain that
05:37:25 [xfq]
action: florian to make the CSSWG aware of Warichu
05:37:32 [gb]
Created -> action #47 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/47
05:37:50 [xfq]
Topic: AOB
05:37:58 [xfq]
florian: I have one more small topic
05:39:00 [xfq]
... during TPAC I have had soem conversations with Google who are working to prioritize what they should work on int the medium @@
05:41:30 [xfq]
... speaking of the oblique stuff one thing which we did not talk about
05:41:48 [xfq]
... but eventually we need to get back to is that it's actually more complicated than that
05:41:56 [xfq]
... like writing mode
05:42:20 [xfq]
... it would be good to find some companies who think it's important to get them to join the CSSWG to push for it
05:42:32 [xfq]
... because i think CSSWG overall is receptive to that kind of topic
05:42:39 [xfq]
... because nobody's driing tis
05:42:47 [xfq]
... like media company related to video subtitles
05:42:59 [xfq]
... it's not common in books so publishers don't care
05:43:08 [xfq]
... but in subtitles i believe it is
05:43:47 [xfq]
... it would be good if sombody who cares and preferably several
05:44:23 [xfq]
... I know we've had some conversations about htis in the past
05:44:39 [xfq]
... but that was a long time ago and nothing has happended since so i think we need active participation
05:44:49 [xfq]
atsushi: maybe MEIG
05:45:12 [xfq]
... maybe better to reach out to movie companies
05:45:48 [xfq]
florian: the reason why I'm raising this because we've started taling again about italic and oblique and slanted text
05:46:11 [xfq]
... I think it would be really good while we're having this conversation the CSSWG has enough people who remember that
05:46:32 [xfq]
... maybe reachout to MEIG and mailing lists in CJ
05:51:00 [xfq]
rrsagent, make minutes
05:51:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq
05:53:39 [xfq]
Meeting: I18N ⇔ CSS
05:53:50 [xfq]
present+ atsushi, florian, xfq
05:53:55 [xfq]
scribe: xfq
05:54:05 [xfq]
rrsagent, make minutes
05:54:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq
05:55:17 [xfq]
s/laytou/layout/
05:56:00 [xfq]
s/intersted/interested
05:56:15 [xfq]
s/nto that i'm/not that i'm
05:56:28 [xfq]
s/interesteding/interesting
05:56:58 [xfq]
s/warichu/Warichu/G
05:57:13 [xfq]
s/jsut for CJ/just for CJ
05:57:31 [xfq]
s/knowo fo something/know something
05:58:05 [xfq]
s/it would be probably better @@/it would be probably better if Unicode could maintain this
05:58:24 [xfq]
s/soem conversations/some conversations
05:59:45 [xfq]
s/int the medium @@/in the medium to long term re CJK typographic features, if you have important issues please let me know
06:00:03 [xfq]
s/ driing tis/ driving this
06:00:22 [xfq]
s/htis/this
06:00:38 [xfq]
rrsagent, make minutes
06:00:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq
08:00:08 [atsushi_]
atsushi_ has joined #i18n
08:02:15 [atsushi__]
atsushi__ has joined #i18n
08:55:23 [r12a]
r12a has joined #i18n
09:09:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
09:57:15 [xfq]
xfq has joined #i18n
09:57:35 [xfq]
s/and mailing lists in CJ/and Chinese and Japanese mailing lists/
09:57:39 [xfq]
rrsagent, make minutes
09:57:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq
10:08:51 [xfq]
xfq has joined #i18n
10:23:38 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
10:27:25 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
10:37:53 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
11:06:33 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
11:08:25 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
11:11:34 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
11:22:20 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
12:03:49 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
13:04:20 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
13:43:11 [xfq__]
xfq__ has joined #i18n
13:47:19 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
14:00:00 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
14:41:53 [gtalbot]
gtalbot has joined #i18n
14:44:09 [gtalbot]
gtalbot has left #i18n
14:53:05 [xfq_]
xfq_ has joined #i18n
15:45:21 [xfq__]
xfq__ has joined #i18n