05:04:59 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 05:05:03 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-irc 05:06:31 https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d737b1d9-bb00-4b14-9507-0338465ee8ed/20230926T220000/ 05:06:59 florian: to follow up from TPAC 05:07:03 ... generic font families 05:07:12 ... I think there's news here 05:07:33 ... it seems that the CSSWG position has changed 05:07:56 ... previously I think our understanding of the CSSWG position was that they weren't sure about adding new generic font families 05:08:06 ... that seems to no longer to be the case 05:08:10 ... in the latest meeting 05:08:31 ... the group thinks that if some new generic font families are useful 05:08:35 ... then we can add them 05:08:39 ... just tell us which 05:08:51 ... I think that's a good improvement 05:09:04 ... new generic font families will be in a function 05:09:27 ... it will be something like generic(nastaliq) 05:09:36 ... so we have a path forward 05:09:48 ... the next task is to compile a list of generic font families 05:09:59 ... I think it would be helpful to identify actual font faces 05:10:31 ... I suspect although the CSSWG has not resolved on that that maybe we want to add the new generic font family names directly in the spec 05:10:45 ... @@ 05:11:01 ... here's a list of fonts, here's what license they have, here's where we can find them 05:11:11 ... maybe they're free, maybe they're not 05:11:29 ... the article written by Richard 05:11:45 ... was this meant to be the list of the most important ones to have? 05:12:10 ... or do we have a longer list? 05:12:29 ... basically can we create an action item for somebody to create that list? 05:12:45 https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/typography/fontstyles.en.html 05:13:26 xfq: @@ 05:13:38 florian: I think it would be good to keep this document 05:13:55 ... but we need to create a list of we want these to exist 05:15:17 Topic: Status of sideways-lr and sideways-rl in Writing Modes 05:15:50 florian: the status of spec is stable 05:15:57 ... Firefox implements it 05:16:00 ... nobody else 05:16:12 ... I'm not aware of anything new 05:16:23 ... it's really an implementation question 05:17:05 ... I'm also interested if any language needs this 05:17:22 ... or it's just a laytou feature 05:17:32 ... if you find a particular language that needs this 05:17:45 ... rather than just being a layout feature 05:18:04 ... please let me know 05:19:24 Topic: Cutting Note (aka warichu in Japanese) is not supported 05:19:36 florian: it's a combination of a technical question and a lobbying question 05:19:53 ... I'm not aware of implementer interest, and not aware of funding for this area 05:20:04 ... maybe next time we have the CSSWG F2F this could be a topic 05:20:45 ... do you know some browser engine is intersted in this? 05:20:59 xfq: nto that i'm aware of but i do know some publishers interested 05:21:10 florian: do we have an analysis of what's missing to make this work? 05:21:38 ... because to some degree @@ 05:22:06 ... one interesteding part of the challenge is parens 05:22:14 ... that problem might be shared with math 05:23:08 ... I wonder if you have contacts in the math related working group 05:23:35 ... we could ask them not so much in terms of markup because i don't think we're trying to share mark with mathml 05:23:41 ... but in terms of layout 05:24:21 [Discuss the example in https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/109#issuecomment-675224780 ] 05:25:04 rrsagent, make log public 05:25:06 rrsagent, make minutes 05:25:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq 05:25:24 florian: I hand't paid attention to line breaking inside warichu so far 05:25:28 ... that's interesteing 05:25:47 https://w3c.github.io/jlreq/#handling_an_inline_cutting_note_when_it_straddles_two_kihonhanmen_lines 05:25:49 ... I guess from a CSSWG point of view the point is not to solve it jsut for CJ 05:26:00 ... is this a CJ only thing 05:26:12 ... or do you knowo fo something similar that happens in other languages? 05:26:16 ... is it always 2 lines 05:26:24 ... or is it sometimes 3 or more? 05:26:45 atsushi: if we divide it into 3 or four lines 05:26:46 ... it's too small 05:27:00 ... warichu contains Kanji 05:27:46 florian: basically we need to control the font size 05:27:54 https://w3c.github.io/jlreq/#h-note-135 05:27:55 ... we need to be able to control how many lines 05:28:06 ... we need to be able to get correct wrapping 05:28:13 ... we need to be able to put parens around it 05:28:32 ... I don't know if it should be automatic or not in terms of font size and line gap 05:29:05 ... this example from jlreq is saying that the Chinese example shared eailer is not recommended style according to jlreq 05:30:03 xfq: semantically it is the same 05:30:40 Topic: Status of "characters to skip for emphasis marks" 05:32:21 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/839 05:32:24 https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-decor-3/#text-emphasis-style-property 05:33:00 [[ 05:33:03 However, emphasis marks are not drawn for: 05:33:04 ... 05:33:05 ]] 05:34:09 florian: so for now we have criteria like this but it would be probably better @@ 05:34:19 ... it's possible that fantasai did 05:34:53 ... I'll send her an email 05:35:57 florian: what's in the CSS spec now isn't wrong 05:36:08 ... but it's kind of tricky to maintain this kind of thing 05:36:23 s/isn't wrong/isn't wrong, at least not obviously 05:36:30 ... it would be good if Unicode couuld maintain that 05:37:25 action: florian to make the CSSWG aware of Warichu 05:37:32 Created -> action #47 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/47 05:37:50 Topic: AOB 05:37:58 florian: I have one more small topic 05:39:00 ... during TPAC I have had soem conversations with Google who are working to prioritize what they should work on int the medium @@ 05:41:30 ... speaking of the oblique stuff one thing which we did not talk about 05:41:48 ... but eventually we need to get back to is that it's actually more complicated than that 05:41:56 ... like writing mode 05:42:20 ... it would be good to find some companies who think it's important to get them to join the CSSWG to push for it 05:42:32 ... because i think CSSWG overall is receptive to that kind of topic 05:42:39 ... because nobody's driing tis 05:42:47 ... like media company related to video subtitles 05:42:59 ... it's not common in books so publishers don't care 05:43:08 ... but in subtitles i believe it is 05:43:47 ... it would be good if sombody who cares and preferably several 05:44:23 ... I know we've had some conversations about htis in the past 05:44:39 ... but that was a long time ago and nothing has happended since so i think we need active participation 05:44:49 atsushi: maybe MEIG 05:45:12 ... maybe better to reach out to movie companies 05:45:48 florian: the reason why I'm raising this because we've started taling again about italic and oblique and slanted text 05:46:11 ... I think it would be really good while we're having this conversation the CSSWG has enough people who remember that 05:46:32 ... maybe reachout to MEIG and mailing lists in CJ 05:51:00 rrsagent, make minutes 05:51:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq 05:53:39 Meeting: I18N ⇔ CSS 05:53:50 present+ atsushi, florian, xfq 05:53:55 scribe: xfq 05:54:05 rrsagent, make minutes 05:54:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq 05:55:17 s/laytou/layout/ 05:56:00 s/intersted/interested 05:56:15 s/nto that i'm/not that i'm 05:56:28 s/interesteding/interesting 05:56:58 s/warichu/Warichu/G 05:57:13 s/jsut for CJ/just for CJ 05:57:31 s/knowo fo something/know something 05:58:05 s/it would be probably better @@/it would be probably better if Unicode could maintain this 05:58:24 s/soem conversations/some conversations 05:59:45 s/int the medium @@/in the medium to long term re CJK typographic features, if you have important issues please let me know 06:00:03 s/ driing tis/ driving this 06:00:22 s/htis/this 06:00:38 rrsagent, make minutes 06:00:39 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq 08:00:08 atsushi_ has joined #i18n 08:02:15 atsushi__ has joined #i18n 08:55:23 r12a has joined #i18n 09:09:59 Zakim has left #i18n 09:57:15 xfq has joined #i18n 09:57:35 s/and mailing lists in CJ/and Chinese and Japanese mailing lists/ 09:57:39 rrsagent, make minutes 09:57:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq 10:08:51 xfq has joined #i18n 10:23:38 xfq_ has joined #i18n 10:27:25 xfq_ has joined #i18n 10:37:53 xfq_ has joined #i18n 11:06:33 xfq_ has joined #i18n 11:08:25 xfq_ has joined #i18n 11:11:34 xfq_ has joined #i18n 11:22:20 xfq_ has joined #i18n 12:03:49 xfq_ has joined #i18n 13:04:20 xfq_ has joined #i18n 13:43:11 xfq__ has joined #i18n 13:47:19 xfq_ has joined #i18n 14:00:00 xfq_ has joined #i18n 14:41:53 gtalbot has joined #i18n 14:44:09 gtalbot has left #i18n 14:53:05 xfq_ has joined #i18n 15:45:21 xfq__ has joined #i18n