IRC log of i18n on 2023-09-27
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-irc
- 05:06:31 [xfq]
- https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d737b1d9-bb00-4b14-9507-0338465ee8ed/20230926T220000/
- 05:06:59 [xfq]
- florian: to follow up from TPAC
- 05:07:03 [xfq]
- ... generic font families
- 05:07:12 [xfq]
- ... I think there's news here
- 05:07:33 [xfq]
- ... it seems that the CSSWG position has changed
- 05:07:56 [xfq]
- ... previously I think our understanding of the CSSWG position was that they weren't sure about adding new generic font families
- 05:08:06 [xfq]
- ... that seems to no longer to be the case
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- ... in the latest meeting
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- ... the group thinks that if some new generic font families are useful
- 05:08:35 [xfq]
- ... then we can add them
- 05:08:39 [xfq]
- ... just tell us which
- 05:08:51 [xfq]
- ... I think that's a good improvement
- 05:09:04 [xfq]
- ... new generic font families will be in a function
- 05:09:27 [xfq]
- ... it will be something like generic(nastaliq)
- 05:09:36 [xfq]
- ... so we have a path forward
- 05:09:48 [xfq]
- ... the next task is to compile a list of generic font families
- 05:09:59 [xfq]
- ... I think it would be helpful to identify actual font faces
- 05:10:31 [xfq]
- ... I suspect although the CSSWG has not resolved on that that maybe we want to add the new generic font family names directly in the spec
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- ... @@
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- ... here's a list of fonts, here's what license they have, here's where we can find them
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- ... maybe they're free, maybe they're not
- 05:11:29 [xfq]
- ... the article written by Richard
- 05:11:45 [xfq]
- ... was this meant to be the list of the most important ones to have?
- 05:12:10 [xfq]
- ... or do we have a longer list?
- 05:12:29 [xfq]
- ... basically can we create an action item for somebody to create that list?
- 05:12:45 [xfq]
- https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/typography/fontstyles.en.html
- 05:13:26 [xfq]
- xfq: @@
- 05:13:38 [xfq]
- florian: I think it would be good to keep this document
- 05:13:55 [xfq]
- ... but we need to create a list of we want these to exist
- 05:15:17 [xfq]
- Topic: Status of sideways-lr and sideways-rl in Writing Modes
- 05:15:50 [xfq]
- florian: the status of spec is stable
- 05:15:57 [xfq]
- ... Firefox implements it
- 05:16:00 [xfq]
- ... nobody else
- 05:16:12 [xfq]
- ... I'm not aware of anything new
- 05:16:23 [xfq]
- ... it's really an implementation question
- 05:17:05 [xfq]
- ... I'm also interested if any language needs this
- 05:17:22 [xfq]
- ... or it's just a laytou feature
- 05:17:32 [xfq]
- ... if you find a particular language that needs this
- 05:17:45 [xfq]
- ... rather than just being a layout feature
- 05:18:04 [xfq]
- ... please let me know
- 05:19:24 [xfq]
- Topic: Cutting Note (aka warichu in Japanese) is not supported
- 05:19:36 [xfq]
- florian: it's a combination of a technical question and a lobbying question
- 05:19:53 [xfq]
- ... I'm not aware of implementer interest, and not aware of funding for this area
- 05:20:04 [xfq]
- ... maybe next time we have the CSSWG F2F this could be a topic
- 05:20:45 [xfq]
- ... do you know some browser engine is intersted in this?
- 05:20:59 [xfq]
- xfq: nto that i'm aware of but i do know some publishers interested
- 05:21:10 [xfq]
- florian: do we have an analysis of what's missing to make this work?
- 05:21:38 [xfq]
- ... because to some degree @@
- 05:22:06 [xfq]
- ... one interesteding part of the challenge is parens
- 05:22:14 [xfq]
- ... that problem might be shared with math
- 05:23:08 [xfq]
- ... I wonder if you have contacts in the math related working group
- 05:23:35 [xfq]
- ... we could ask them not so much in terms of markup because i don't think we're trying to share mark with mathml
- 05:23:41 [xfq]
- ... but in terms of layout
- 05:24:21 [xfq]
- [Discuss the example in https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/109#issuecomment-675224780 ]
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- rrsagent, make log public
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- rrsagent, make minutes
- 05:25:07 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq
- 05:25:24 [xfq]
- florian: I hand't paid attention to line breaking inside warichu so far
- 05:25:28 [xfq]
- ... that's interesteing
- 05:25:47 [atsushi]
- https://w3c.github.io/jlreq/#handling_an_inline_cutting_note_when_it_straddles_two_kihonhanmen_lines
- 05:25:49 [xfq]
- ... I guess from a CSSWG point of view the point is not to solve it jsut for CJ
- 05:26:00 [xfq]
- ... is this a CJ only thing
- 05:26:12 [xfq]
- ... or do you knowo fo something similar that happens in other languages?
- 05:26:16 [xfq]
- ... is it always 2 lines
- 05:26:24 [xfq]
- ... or is it sometimes 3 or more?
- 05:26:45 [xfq]
- atsushi: if we divide it into 3 or four lines
- 05:26:46 [xfq]
- ... it's too small
- 05:27:00 [xfq]
- ... warichu contains Kanji
- 05:27:46 [xfq]
- florian: basically we need to control the font size
- 05:27:54 [atsushi]
- https://w3c.github.io/jlreq/#h-note-135
- 05:27:55 [xfq]
- ... we need to be able to control how many lines
- 05:28:06 [xfq]
- ... we need to be able to get correct wrapping
- 05:28:13 [xfq]
- ... we need to be able to put parens around it
- 05:28:32 [xfq]
- ... I don't know if it should be automatic or not in terms of font size and line gap
- 05:29:05 [xfq]
- ... this example from jlreq is saying that the Chinese example shared eailer is not recommended style according to jlreq
- 05:30:03 [xfq]
- xfq: semantically it is the same
- 05:30:40 [xfq]
- Topic: Status of "characters to skip for emphasis marks"
- 05:32:21 [xfq]
- https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/839
- 05:32:24 [florian]
- https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-decor-3/#text-emphasis-style-property
- 05:33:00 [xfq]
- [[
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- However, emphasis marks are not drawn for:
- 05:33:04 [xfq]
- ...
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- ]]
- 05:34:09 [xfq]
- florian: so for now we have criteria like this but it would be probably better @@
- 05:34:19 [xfq]
- ... it's possible that fantasai did
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- ... I'll send her an email
- 05:35:57 [xfq]
- florian: what's in the CSS spec now isn't wrong
- 05:36:08 [xfq]
- ... but it's kind of tricky to maintain this kind of thing
- 05:36:23 [florian]
- s/isn't wrong/isn't wrong, at least not obviously
- 05:36:30 [xfq]
- ... it would be good if Unicode couuld maintain that
- 05:37:25 [xfq]
- action: florian to make the CSSWG aware of Warichu
- 05:37:32 [gb]
- Created -> action #47 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/47
- 05:37:50 [xfq]
- Topic: AOB
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- florian: I have one more small topic
- 05:39:00 [xfq]
- ... during TPAC I have had soem conversations with Google who are working to prioritize what they should work on int the medium @@
- 05:41:30 [xfq]
- ... speaking of the oblique stuff one thing which we did not talk about
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- ... but eventually we need to get back to is that it's actually more complicated than that
- 05:41:56 [xfq]
- ... like writing mode
- 05:42:20 [xfq]
- ... it would be good to find some companies who think it's important to get them to join the CSSWG to push for it
- 05:42:32 [xfq]
- ... because i think CSSWG overall is receptive to that kind of topic
- 05:42:39 [xfq]
- ... because nobody's driing tis
- 05:42:47 [xfq]
- ... like media company related to video subtitles
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- ... it's not common in books so publishers don't care
- 05:43:08 [xfq]
- ... but in subtitles i believe it is
- 05:43:47 [xfq]
- ... it would be good if sombody who cares and preferably several
- 05:44:23 [xfq]
- ... I know we've had some conversations about htis in the past
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- ... but that was a long time ago and nothing has happended since so i think we need active participation
- 05:44:49 [xfq]
- atsushi: maybe MEIG
- 05:45:12 [xfq]
- ... maybe better to reach out to movie companies
- 05:45:48 [xfq]
- florian: the reason why I'm raising this because we've started taling again about italic and oblique and slanted text
- 05:46:11 [xfq]
- ... I think it would be really good while we're having this conversation the CSSWG has enough people who remember that
- 05:46:32 [xfq]
- ... maybe reachout to MEIG and mailing lists in CJ
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- rrsagent, make minutes
- 05:51:01 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq
- 05:53:39 [xfq]
- Meeting: I18N ⇔ CSS
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- present+ atsushi, florian, xfq
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- scribe: xfq
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- rrsagent, make minutes
- 05:54:06 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq
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- s/laytou/layout/
- 05:56:00 [xfq]
- s/intersted/interested
- 05:56:15 [xfq]
- s/nto that i'm/not that i'm
- 05:56:28 [xfq]
- s/interesteding/interesting
- 05:56:58 [xfq]
- s/warichu/Warichu/G
- 05:57:13 [xfq]
- s/jsut for CJ/just for CJ
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- s/knowo fo something/know something
- 05:58:05 [xfq]
- s/it would be probably better @@/it would be probably better if Unicode could maintain this
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- s/soem conversations/some conversations
- 05:59:45 [xfq]
- s/int the medium @@/in the medium to long term re CJK typographic features, if you have important issues please let me know
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- s/ driing tis/ driving this
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- s/htis/this
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- rrsagent, make minutes
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- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq
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- s/and mailing lists in CJ/and Chinese and Japanese mailing lists/
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- rrsagent, make minutes
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- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/27-i18n-minutes.html xfq
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