IRC log of aria-apg on 2023-09-26
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:59:50 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
- 17:59:55 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/26-aria-apg-irc
- 17:59:55 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 17:59:56 [Zakim]
- please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King
- 18:00:09 [Matt_King]
- MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
- 18:00:23 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:00:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/26-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
- 18:01:04 [Jem]
- present+
- 18:01:12 [arigilmore]
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- 18:02:20 [Jem]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-26%2C-2023-Agenda
- 18:02:27 [howard-e]
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- 18:02:34 [howard-e]
- present+
- 18:02:47 [dmontalvo]
- present+ Daniel
- 18:02:52 [jugglinmike]
- present+ jugglinmike
- 18:02:57 [jugglinmike]
- scribe+ jugglinmike
- 18:03:05 [jongund]
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- 18:03:51 [jugglinmike]
- Topic: APG community group discussion
- 18:04:06 [jugglinmike]
- present+ Daniel_Montalvo
- 18:04:53 [jugglinmike]
- Daniel_Montalvo: Matt_King and I have been thinking about setting up a Community Group to attract a wider group of people--including folks who may not be W3C members
- 18:05:07 [jugglinmike]
- Daniel_Montalvo: The separation between this Task Force and a new CG needs to be clear, of course
- 18:05:25 [jamesn]
- q+
- 18:06:06 [siri]
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- 18:06:18 [jugglinmike]
- present+ Matt_King
- 18:06:38 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: This would be similar to the structure we have in other parts of WAI
- 18:07:18 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: It would also bring in people within W3C member organizations who don't want to commit to the Task Force
- 18:07:38 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Hopefully that would inspire those folks to join the Task Force eventually, too
- 18:07:46 [Jem]
- q?
- 18:08:06 [jamesn]
- ack me
- 18:08:11 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: We'd make a new GitHub Group for the CG--one whose access would be limited to the APG repositor
- 18:08:20 [jugglinmike]
- s/repositor/repository/
- 18:08:36 [jugglinmike]
- jamesn: Would we envision this working something like the ACT?
- 18:08:49 [Jem]
- James, do you mean ACT or AT group?
- 18:09:13 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Yes, it would be a partnership. I'd like to hold the Task Force meeting and Community Group meeting together at some regular cadence
- 18:09:37 [jugglinmike]
- jamesn: What's the task of the CG versus what's the task of the Task Force?
- 18:09:58 [CurtBellew]
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- 18:10:02 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: They have the same task. Everything that comes out of the community group would go through the Task Force
- 18:10:20 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: But I'd try to focus on tasks with "lighter lift" for folks in the Community Group
- 18:10:38 [Jem]
- q+
- 18:10:44 [CurtBellew]
- present+
- 18:10:59 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: We already review pull requests from members of the public. The community group would just let them signal a little more commitment and receive a little more support
- 18:11:16 [dmontalvo]
- q+
- 18:11:41 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Over time, I want to experiment with different ways of onboarding people and training people and generally getting more members of the public to contribute high-quality pull requests
- 18:12:10 [jongund]
- q+
- 18:12:12 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: There are several people at Meta Platforms Inc and elsewhere who have expressed interest in a lower-commitment group like this
- 18:12:34 [jugglinmike]
- Jem: We have the AT Community Group because it doesn't have a Task Force
- 18:12:54 [jugglinmike]
- Jem: I fully agree with Matt_King about having an APG Community Group, and that having such a group removes some barriers
- 18:13:18 [jugglinmike]
- Jem: But to rephrase jamesn's question: what distinguishes the two groups?
- 18:13:55 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Community Group members won't be making a commitment to join the ARIA working group or attend this meeting on a regular basis. CG members are free to come and go as they choose
- 18:14:31 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: This is an experiment. It might fall flat on its face, but it might work!
- 18:14:57 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: It's kinda hard to plan everything out in advance. A lot of what happens in situations like this depends on the specific participation
- 18:15:35 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: Is the group going to meet on a regular basis? Or will it meet on an ad-hoc schedule?
- 18:16:09 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Once we have it in place, I would like to set up a schedule and a plan that involves having some Community Group events whose purpose is to introduce a variety of opportunities for people to get involved
- 18:16:16 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: i.e. specific GitHub issues
- 18:16:37 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: That's probably something for 2024. At first, I'm interested in getting the infrastructure set up
- 18:17:10 [Jem]
- q?
- 18:17:15 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: Couldn't folks at Meta and other W3C organizations just join the Task Force temporarily
- 18:17:15 [Jem]
- ack me
- 18:17:27 [Jem]
- ack domntalvo
- 18:17:31 [Jem]
- ack jongund
- 18:17:31 [dmontalvo]
- ack me
- 18:17:34 [Jem]
- q?
- 18:17:35 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I suppose so, but that seems like the wrong signal to send. I don't want to encourage it
- 18:18:02 [jugglinmike]
- jamesn: And it's a bit cumbersome--you still have to ask your representative to add you
- 18:18:09 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: And it's churn for the chairs, as well
- 18:19:01 [jongund]
- q+
- 18:19:04 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I'm thinking of calling it "ARIA Authoring Practices Community Group". I don't know if anyone else has other ideas for names
- 18:20:46 [dmontalvo]
- q+
- 18:22:22 [dmontalvo]
- q-
- 18:22:44 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: What about relationships with OpenUI or other folks developing widgets?
- 18:23:14 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: They produce examples, but I don't think they're a library
- 18:23:41 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: Well, the people who do develop UI libraries may be good candidates for inclusion in this Community Group
- 18:24:07 [jugglinmike]
- Daniel_Montalvo: I would leave "Guide" out of the CG name since it may be taken as "guidance"
- 18:24:13 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Good point!
- 18:24:23 [Jem]
- Topic:Status of Site Updates
- 18:24:43 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I listed the things that we have ready
- 18:25:11 [Jem]
- +1 to Daniel's suggestion, leaving out the word, "guidance".
- 18:25:38 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I'm hoping to do a publication next week or possibly the week after
- 18:26:17 [dmontalvo]
- q+
- 18:26:32 [jugglinmike]
- howard-e: I won't be available on October 9, so October 2 would be better
- 18:26:49 [Jem]
- ack jongund
- 18:26:52 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Okay, let's plan on publishing on October 2nd
- 18:27:46 [jugglinmike]
- dmontalvo: Shawn also won't be available on the week of October 9th
- 18:27:49 [Jem]
- shawn henry
- 18:28:00 [Jem]
- she is the owner of Wai tempate repo and publication
- 18:28:01 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: All the more reason to target October 2nd
- 18:28:01 [dmontalvo]
- ack me
- 18:28:27 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: At a minimum, we'll have all of the things listed in today's agenda under "status of site updates"
- 18:28:39 [jugglinmike]
- Jem: I just finished the review for skipTo.js
- 18:29:03 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: But we need to coordinate that change with WAI ARIA Practices, and I haven't seen anything on that, yet
- 18:29:55 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: But since it doesn't change the user experience, I don't think we need to rush to get it into this coming publication. It's more of an invisible back-end kind of thing
- 18:29:57 [Jem]
- Topic: New contributing page is ready for final review
- 18:30:02 [jugglinmike]
- Topic: New contributing page is ready for final review
- 18:30:17 [jugglinmike]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2734
- 18:30:30 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: This was an issue that jongund raised and that we've been collaborating on
- 18:30:42 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I recently changed it from "draft" to "Ready for review"
- 18:30:50 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: It's purely editorial
- 18:30:56 [jugglinmike]
- Jem: I'd like to review
- 18:31:29 [jugglinmike]
- dmontalvo: I'd like to take a look, too
- 18:31:43 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: It links to a WAI page about joining the Task Force
- 18:31:56 [Jem]
- https://deploy-preview-236--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/about/contributing/
- 18:32:01 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Ideally, I would like to merge this in time for next week's publication. It's a pretty simple page
- 18:32:11 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: The primary change that I made was to the organization of the information
- 18:32:11 [Jem]
- https://deploy-preview-236--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/about/
- 18:32:26 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I have a brief introduction that gives people a sense of what's on the page
- 18:32:51 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Then, each of the sections after that are about how you do a different task
- 18:33:09 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: They're ordered in increasing levels of commitment, with the final section about joining the working group
- 18:34:01 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: The "readme" link is under the section titled "Making improvements to documentation or code"
- 18:34:04 [Jem]
- https://deploy-preview-236--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/about/contributing/
- 18:34:42 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I pulled some of the content from the readme into this section in order to give a high-level overview of the process
- 18:35:11 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I don't know if we will leave that content in the README. It doesn't hurt to have it in both places, but then again, maintenance is kind of a hassle
- 18:35:42 [jugglinmike]
- Jem: We had a question about how the APG workflow works. Should we give an overview for people who are trying to contribute?
- 18:36:19 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Yes, but I think that goes in a different place. I think we need to extend the README with some information about how the repositories are structured and the process for checking your work
- 18:36:22 [Jem]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2781
- 18:37:00 [jugglinmike]
- present+ Andrea_Cardona
- 18:37:15 [jugglinmike]
- Andrea_Cardona: I'd like to review, as well
- 18:37:55 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: This page is all about, "if you're just getting started, here's where you find out where to go"
- 18:38:06 [jugglinmike]
- present+ siri
- 18:38:09 [Jem]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices
- 18:38:19 [jugglinmike]
- siri: So you're just looking for feedback on text rather than accessibility issues?
- 18:38:52 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: It's really just copy, so if there are accessibility issues, they will likely pre-date the patch and extend across the entire site
- 18:39:00 [Jem]
- Topic: PR 2775 feed example
- 18:39:02 [jugglinmike]
- Topic: PR 2775: Feed example changes
- 18:39:12 [jugglinmike]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2775
- 18:40:08 [jugglinmike]
- arigilmore: We updated a few examples so it's inside the page, within an iframe
- 18:40:22 [jugglinmike]
- arigilmore: We updated the content so there aren't multiple H1 elements on the page
- 18:40:56 [Matt_King]
- Example page in preview: https://deploy-preview-248--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/patterns/feed/examples/feed/
- 18:41:18 [jugglinmike]
- arigilmore: We moved the select element which controls the simulated speed of loading. It's no longer displayed alongside the example--it's now outside of the iframe
- 18:41:48 [Jem]
- Title is updated to "Infinite Scrolling Feed Example"
- 18:42:06 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I see the title tag now says "Infinite Scrolling Feed Example". I remember discussing whether it should be "infinite" or "infinitely". I think the title you have here is fine
- 18:43:14 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: On the pages where we have example instructions or options, we had a dedicated section for those above the section labeled "example" (eg on "carousel" or "Tree grid")
- 18:43:36 [jugglinmike]
- arigilmore: Ah, I see--the sections titled "Example options"
- 18:43:49 [jugglinmike]
- arigilmore: Along with a little note about what the option does
- 18:45:07 [jugglinmike]
- Jem: When we change the timing option, do we need a reload native link?
- 18:45:20 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: JAWS handles the change gracefully
- 18:46:40 [jugglinmike]
- Jem: Is there any visual indication that more items are loading?
- 18:46:57 [jugglinmike]
- arigilmore: No, though you can see the size of the scrollbar change
- 18:49:33 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: This is awesome work!
- 18:50:01 [jugglinmike]
- arigilmore: The only other issue was that the tests weren't working
- 18:50:39 [jugglinmike]
- arigilmore: The tests fail because it can't find the page
- 18:51:35 [jongund]
- I have to leave a little early today.
- 18:52:31 [jugglinmike]
- jugglinmike: this might be related to WebDriver, since you need to explicitly manage context when traversing between documents (e.g. into an iframe)
- 18:52:50 [jugglinmike]
- arigilmore: Ah, that sounds familiar. I'll try again and ping you on the issue if I'm still having trouble
- 18:53:58 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Once we address these two issues, we can add reviewers in the next meeting
- 18:54:18 [jugglinmike]
- Topic: PR 2780: Fix for iOS Safari combobox bug
- 18:54:29 [jugglinmike]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2780
- 18:55:34 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: We had a visual design review from Jem and a code review from jongund
- 18:56:01 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: If we can get those reviews done this week, I think we can land it in time for the deployment we're planning for next week
- 18:56:44 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: We don't need any other reviewers because this is a CSS fix
- 18:56:56 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: jongund has done his review, so it's up to Jem!
- 18:57:16 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: We're gonna have another great publication next week!
- 18:57:43 [jugglinmike]
- Zakim, end the meeting
- 18:57:43 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Jem, howard-e, Daniel, jugglinmike, Daniel_Montalvo, Matt_King, CurtBellew, Andrea_Cardona, siri
- 18:57:46 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 18:58:17 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/26-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim
- 18:58:23 [Zakim]
- I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
- 18:58:23 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aria-apg
- 19:04:59 [jugglinmike]
- jugglinmike has left #aria-apg