14:00:11 RRSAgent has joined #wot-discovery 14:00:15 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/25-wot-discovery-irc 14:00:16 meeting: WoT Discovery 14:01:29 McCool_ has joined #wot-discovery 14:02:07 ktoumura has joined #wot-discovery 14:04:10 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Kunihiko_Toumura, Tomoaki_Mizushima 14:04:12 chair: McCool 14:04:17 rrsagent, make log public 14:04:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:04:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/25-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz 14:04:57 acimmino has joined #wot-discovery 14:05:48 JKRhb has joined #wot-discovery 14:05:52 present+ Jan_Romann 14:05:59 present+ Andrea_Cimmino 14:06:13 scribenick: JKRhb 14:06:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:06:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/25-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz 14:06:47 topic: Agenda 14:07:11 mm: We did not discuss TPAC last time, so we should focus on that today 14:07:26 ... other than that, we have a few ontology topics to resolve 14:08:00 mm: To better organize otherselves, I prepared an agenda for next time so that we can assign "homework" for the next meeting as we go along 14:08:00 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Discovery_WebConf#25_September_2023 14:08:12 s/otherselves/ourselves/ 14:08:18 i|We did|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Discovery_WebConf#25_September_2023 Agenda for today| 14:08:18 topic: Minutes Review 14:08:29 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-wot-discovery-minutes.html Sep-18 14:08:41 mm: Technically, everyone should have read it, but I want to give people the chance to go through 14:09:07 ... does anyone have an objection to publishing the minutes without review within the meeting? 14:09:17 No objections 14:09:28 mm: Minutes are approved 14:09:32 topic: Ontology 14:09:45 mm: There are a few things we need to take care of 14:09:52 ... mapping from URL to file 14:10:07 ... encoding questions (e.g., UTF-8) 14:10:23 ... GitHub links need to fixed 14:10:43 ... we should create a frozen state and put in a separate repo or a subdirectory 14:10:48 ... any other thoughts? 14:11:07 mm: Let me start with a list of things we need to take care of 14:11:31 ... problem is, if we add things without testing, there is the problem that links are broken 14:11:44 ... potential solution: add links and make a candidate release 14:12:12 ... then test the published version, e.g., content type 14:12:24 ... and check every link 14:12:37 ... until publication happens 14:12:52 ... before, a frozen version needs to be captured 14:12:58 ... we should do this in two steps 14:13:19 ... there should be a "local" version first and then a "global" version 14:13:36 q+ 14:13:39 ... we should do at least the local version 14:13:41 ... any comments? 14:13:55 kaz: I still have a bit of a strange feeling regarding the local version 14:14:17 ack k 14:14:17 ... if we create another dedicated directory, that's fine 14:14:25 ac: From my side, it's fine 14:14:41 s/local version/local version under the "publication" area/ 14:15:40 mm: Regarding the mapping, the TD repository chose a different route with a "NAMESPACES.md" file 14:15:51 ... however, they have a more complicated situation 14:16:03 ... they have GitHub URLs 14:16:20 ... pointing to the main branch, which can be updated, which seems a bit dangerous to me 14:16:46 ... furthermore, we should probably also be explicit regarding the charset 14:16:58 ... how do we want to deal with this to be consistent? 14:17:09 ... We could use NAMESPACES.md to be consistent 14:17:17 ... although I am not happy with the format 14:17:38 ... GitHub URLs should point to a frozen version 14:18:08 ... can anyone explain the background here? 14:18:43 ... why are there two states? Is there also a reorganization? 14:18:49 kaz: Yes 14:19:05 mm: The links in the TD file are also the old ones 14:19:17 ... we should create a resources directory in our repository 14:19:35 s/two states/two states ("current state" vs "desired state")/ 14:20:01 ... and use their format to be consistent 14:20:12 i|regarding the mapping|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/NAMESPACES.md NAMESPACES.md including proposed URL mapping| 14:20:25 rrsagent, make log public 14:20:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:20:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/25-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz 14:20:37 ... (creates a directory and a README.md file to capture the frozen resources for publication) 14:20:58 i|Regarding the mapping|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/NAMESPACES.md NAMESPACES.md including proposed URL mapping| 14:21:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:21:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/25-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz 14:21:48 ... later on, I will copy the appropriate resources over 14:22:00 ... (creates a PR with the changes) 14:22:18 ... will not merge this one yet, but copy the files first 14:22:26 s/files/resources/ 14:23:01 ... I will add a comment to the existing issue 509 regarding the PR 14:23:32 ... the PR does not have the most useful name yet 14:23:39 ... (changes the PR title) 14:24:30 present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi 14:24:39 cris_ has joined #wot-discovery 14:25:04 ... (adds a description with todos to the PR) 14:25:35 ... the other thing I am thinking is that the namespace mapping should be for each file and not for everything, so should that we can do it for each version 14:25:51 ... then we can add new URLs for each version 14:26:07 ... let's copy over the README content for now 14:27:06 q+ 14:28:15 jr: Just a general question: Is it common to host resources on GitHub? Or are resources moved to a W3C server eventually? 14:28:45 kaz: Discussion within WoT working group was to have them on GitHub to be able to maintain them easily 14:29:39 mm: I think the opposite should be done, once resources are finished they should be fixed and published like a specification, to enable caching for example 14:30:04 ... the other thing is reliability, for which GitHub might not be the best infrastructure 14:30:19 ... however, in the short term redirecting to GitHub should be fine 14:31:03 kaz: I think we had this discussion for several months one or two years ago with the decision to host the resources on GitHub 14:31:30 ... as W3C does not provide an account to maintain the resources to members anymore 14:32:18 ... my proposal for about two years was to simply use the "ns" namespace for hosting resources 14:32:43 mm: I think the whole year thing was a mistake, we can simply create an alias 14:33:01 ... I am okay with hosting on GitHub, but they should be fixed 14:33:27 kaz: From my viewpoint, the most important thing is the maintenance policy 14:33:39 ... and the question how resources should be updated 14:34:24 ack k 14:34:25 mm: Most important thing should be the organization for now 14:34:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:34:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/25-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz 14:34:38 ... put the topic on the side for now, I will create a PR 14:34:47 topic: TPAC Follow-up 14:34:55 mm: We had a short meeting on discovery 14:35:01 ... we have the minutes 14:35:09 ... which did not capture all of the discussion 14:35:26 ... took some notes in the discussion which also did not capture everything 14:36:18 i|There are a few|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/516 PR 516 - Create "resources" directory to capture frozen resources for publication| 14:36:18 ... I already did a summary for security, but we should do one for discovery as well 14:36:25 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:36:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/25-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz 14:36:36 ... there is already a link in the wiki that is broken at the moment 14:36:45 ... we should create a document under that URL 14:37:15 ... (creates a file in the wot repository) 14:38:11 ... let's use the security summary as a template 14:39:45 (creates PR 1134) 14:39:48 https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1134 14:39:54 s/(creates PR 1134)/... (creates PR 1134)/ 14:40:34 i|We had a short|-> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/14-wot-minutes.html#t16 TPAC minutes - Day 1 - Discovery 14:41:05 ... multi-protocol support was one point 14:41:29 ... with a directory API for CoAP as a sub-point 14:41:39 ... as well as MQTT 14:41:44 i|We had a short|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/2023-09-tpac/2023-09-14-WoT-TPAC-Discovery-McCool.pdf McCool's slides on Discovery| 14:41:52 ... another main point was new introductions 14:42:40 ... question is: do we want to have a directory API for MQTT? Or do we want to have an introduction method and then query the directory via HTTP or CoAP? 14:43:09 ... a directory API using MQTT might be complicated, but having CoAP might be useful for small devices 14:43:12 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1134|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1134 wot PR 1134 - Create 2023-09-14-WoT-TPAC-Discovery-Discussion.md| 14:43:13 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:43:14 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/25-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz 14:43:24 ... (takes another look at the TPAC minutes) 14:43:48 ... another aspect was introduction via OPC UA 14:44:25 ... (adds a point regarding missing MQTT standardization from OASIS to the summary) 14:44:45 ... there was a question regarding the use of MQTT during the exploration phase 14:44:51 +1 for MQTT server 14:45:10 ... I think it would be at least useful to have an MQTT TD server 14:45:38 ... maybe we should add a well-known topic for finding self-describing TD servers 14:45:51 s/TD servers/things/ 14:46:21 q+ 14:46:53 jr: I think there already was some promising discussion in discovery issues 14:47:09 ca: Should be a low-hanging fruit, in node-wot we already support that 14:47:23 ... we publish the TD to a pre-defined topic 14:47:35 mm: We should define a standard for a pre-defined topic 14:48:13 ... so we should add a well-known topic that includes wot somewhere 14:49:03 mm: The other thing is that we can have multiple TDs for a single thing, but we don't have a directory service yet 14:49:19 ca: CoRE RD could probably be used here 14:49:32 mm: Let's capture that in the summary 14:49:46 ack c 14:50:19 mm: Generic discovery to handle protocols is difficult, we could delegate that to different protocols 14:50:20 q+ 14:52:03 ... follow-up comment: if we have a TD for a directory service, can we bind those to multiple protocols? 14:52:37 jr: Could also bindings be used for defining new discovery approaches? 14:52:50 mm: Security bootstrapping is also a relevant aspect here 14:53:05 ... (adds final comments and points to the summary document) 14:53:39 ... let's commit this, I'll add it to the PR, feel free to add comments, next time we'll hopefully be able to merge it 14:53:52 topic: Next Agenda 14:54:17 mm: One topic will be the review of the two PRs we currently have open 14:54:20 ack j 14:54:52 ... (adds the links to the wiki page) 14:55:15 ... then we will review issues and AOB, anything else? 14:55:25 ... Let's leave it at that 14:55:37 [adjourned] 14:55:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:55:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/25-wot-discovery-minutes.html kaz 16:54:42 Zakim has left #wot-discovery