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12:59:21 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:59:22 <Zakim> Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
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13:02:55 <Suji> present+
13:02:58 <ToddL> present+
13:03:00 <dmontalvo> present+
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13:03:07 <trevor> present+
13:03:28 <ToddL> scribe: ToddL
13:03:37 <ToddL> zakim, take up next
13:03:37 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- ACT Standup -- taken up [from kathy]
13:04:32 <ToddL> kathy: Last week TPAC, good atteendance. Todd only one that was not in attendance.
13:04:45 <ToddL> kathy: to do secondary reqs.
13:04:59 <ToddL> kathy: another change discussed to do with background
13:05:18 <ToddL> Suji: Didn't get to much last week.
13:05:37 <ToddL> trevor: Didn't get to much last week.
13:06:03 <ToddL> Tom: not much last week
13:06:35 <ToddL> dmontalvo: merged a couple PR's and go over Kathy's items. Planning and presentation for CSUN.
13:07:10 <ToddL> zakim, take up next
13:07:10 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Recharter of AGWG -- taken up [from kathy]
13:07:20 <ToddL> I did not get to anything last week as well.
13:07:39 <ToddL> dmontalvo: AGWG to be rechartered.
13:08:12 <ToddL> dmontalvo: A reset on the way participants will need to rejoin groups. Need nomination from IC rep.
13:08:33 <ToddL> dmontalvo: IE applications will need to be revisited.
13:09:38 <ToddL> dmontalvo: I will be taking care of IE reissue invitations.
13:10:09 <ToddL> kathy: Does CG need to do anything?
13:10:21 <ToddL> dmontalvo: CGs do not need to do anything.
13:11:04 <ToddL> zakim, take up next
13:11:04 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- October 5th meeting cancelled -- taken up [from kathy]
13:11:24 <ToddL> kathy: 5 Oct meeting is cancelled.
13:11:46 <ToddL> zakim, take up next
13:11:46 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, ToddL
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13:12:03 <ToddL> zakim, close item 3
13:12:03 <Zakim> agendum 3, October 5th meeting cancelled, closed
13:12:04 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:12:06 <Zakim> 4. TPAC Update [from kathy]
13:12:09 <ToddL> zakim, take up next
13:12:09 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- TPAC Update -- taken up [from kathy]
13:12:25 <thbrunet> present+
13:12:32 <ToddL> kathy: ANyone who was there feel free to share
13:12:59 <ToddL> dmontalvo: A couple productive days at TPAC. Making progress in ACT rules 1.1
13:13:22 <ToddL> dmontalvo: discussed subjectivity of rules, 118n, will be setting up wiki.
13:13:57 <ToddL> dmontalvo: ariawg, discussed better communication on what is removed and updated
13:14:28 <ToddL> dmontalvo: deprecation of rules discussed e.g., 4.1.1 Parsing
13:14:57 <ToddL> kathy: both TF and community meeting super helpful.
13:16:17 <ToddL> Suji: first time attending TPAC. Really good two days of sessions.
13:17:17 <ToddL> trevor: Several big conversations that got resolved. e.g., Optional test cases.
13:17:33 <ToddL> trevor: Still a lot of work to do.
13:20:27 <ToddL> zakim, take up next
13:20:27 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Subjective exceptions in the applicability -- taken up [from kathy]
13:21:43 <ToddL> trevor: main talking point. how to define subjective definitions. came up with several different ways.
13:23:09 <ToddL> trevor: e.g., logical operators, scoring. Can be difficult to make formalized definitions.
13:23:23 <ToddL> trevor: talked to Wilco about scoring approach
13:23:48 <ToddL> trevor: The "getting warmer" method seemed to get the most traction
13:24:39 <ToddL> trevor: concensus was default was similar to getting warmer method. we could use the logical operator method.
13:25:31 <ToddL> trevor: Should definitions use concrete examples. Well-described examples.
13:26:05 <ToddL> trevor: Wilco suggested closed subjective definitions to set them apart from other subjective definitions
13:26:29 <dmontalvo> zakim, agenda?
13:26:29 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
13:26:30 <Zakim> 5. Subjective exceptions in the applicability [from kathy]
13:26:30 <Zakim> 6. Updating & renaming the background section [from kathy]
13:26:39 <ToddL> trevor: Helen brought up complexity concerns that are difficult to implement or overwhelming for people getting into accessibility testing
13:28:03 <kathy> scribe+: kathy
13:28:25 <kathy> todd: had a testing discussion with developers. agree with not being too complex
13:29:18 <kathy> ... have heard wcag 2.x is too complex. try to keep complexity down would be great. include examples in definitions
13:29:59 <dmontalvo> q+
13:30:06 <kathy> trevor: ACT rules are more for people building test methodogies. not for new testers as much
13:31:17 <kathy> ... less ambiguity is better for harmonization
13:32:12 <kathy> ack d
13:32:18 <ToddL> dmontalvo: Not the group for people getting started with accessibility
13:33:04 <ToddL> dmontalvo: let's make it useful for the prupose of the group. whenever we need to streamline, we can.
13:33:34 <ToddL> thbrunet: tools need to accept they don't have 100% matching with ACT.
13:33:54 <ToddL> thbrunet: depends on environment. people may not want to get involved with ACT
13:34:07 <ToddL> +1, agree.
13:34:43 <ToddL> kathy: Getting Warmer method is new to me.
13:35:50 <ToddL> kathy: what would help for me is when someone is looking at list of items, how many of those items would mean it's a heading for example
13:36:32 <ToddL> kathy: put some parameters around Getting Warmer method
13:36:37 <ToddL> q?
13:38:43 <ToddL> trevor: leaning towards stripping out some stuff
13:40:46 <ToddL> kathy: having examples will help with understanding. concerns with looseness.
13:41:26 <ToddL> thbrunet: could mark them like "beta". once some rules are out could work on more
13:44:58 <trevor> https://confluence.mitre.org/display/DIGR/Local+LLM+Setup
13:45:12 <trevor> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2050
13:47:32 <ToddL> group discussion on navigation example and definitions
13:47:50 <dmontalvo> ToddL: s\https://confluence.mitre.org/display/DIGR/Local+LLM+Setup\\
13:48:17 <ToddL> trevor: how to make definitions with examples with more than one distinct definition
13:48:34 <dmontalvo> s\https://confluence.mitre.org/display/DIGR/Local+LLM+Setup\\g
13:49:37 <ToddL> zakim, take up next
13:49:37 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Updating & renaming the background section -- taken up [from kathy]
13:50:07 <ToddL> kathy: Topic came out of TPAC discussion last week
13:50:54 <ToddL> kathy: feedback was this was a bit too long
13:51:33 <ToddL> kathy: accessibility support and assumptions will go under background
13:52:25 <ToddL> kathy: background renamed to Understanding
13:52:44 <ToddL> zakim, agenda?
13:52:44 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
13:52:45 <Zakim> 6. Updating & renaming the background section [from kathy]
13:53:16 <ToddL> kathy: Wilco will be out the next two weeks, Daniel out next week.
13:53:51 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, make minutes
13:53:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/21-wcag-act-minutes.html dmontalvo
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