12:57:09 RRSAgent has joined #epub-fxl 12:57:13 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/19-epub-fxl-irc 12:57:13 RRSAgent, make logs Public 12:57:14 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), wendyreid 12:59:50 Rachel_O has joined #epub-fxl 12:59:54 meeting: FXL Accessibility Task Force Meeting 12:59:59 date: 2023-09-19 13:00:02 chair: wendyreid 13:00:39 duga has joined #epub-fxl 13:01:21 gpellegrino has joined #epub-fxl 13:01:27 present+ 13:01:40 gautier has joined #epub-fxl 13:02:11 present+ 13:02:15 present+ 13:02:21 CharlesL has joined #EPUB-FXL 13:02:22 Ken_Jones has joined #epub-fxl 13:02:26 present+ 13:02:31 present+ 13:02:32 present+ 13:02:44 present+ 13:02:52 jamesY has joined #epub-fxl 13:02:56 present+ 13:03:35 JonasLillqvist has joined #epub-fxl 13:03:35 scribe+ 13:04:35 topic: recap of TPAC 13:06:12 paulgilius has joined #epub-fxl 13:06:20 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NUaO5gvboK23ssvj-j2bcJ_I8AQyN9wr1qcjzuQFXgg/edit?usp=sharing 13:06:23 wendyreid: we met last week at TPAC, FXL accessibility came in discussion on documentation and also in discussions about moving to iso. The subject is sensitive with EAA coming in force. 13:07:15 q+ 13:07:18 wendyreid: we would like to have this document in a publishable state and then move to experimentations. 13:07:21 ack gpellegrino 13:07:47 https://www.w3.org/TR/epub-a11y-eaa-mapping/ 13:10:29 gpellegrino: anything we publish means having to update the EAA mapping. For that political thing we need to clearly identify what is feasible with authoring tools (because EAA states we must do accessible to the state of the art). We should balance the state of the art doable with available tools. New guidelines will complexify the task of publishers to comply by june 2025. 13:12:38 q+ 13:12:43 ack Ken_Jones 13:13:14 wendyreid: yes, we clearly state that FXL are not accessible to everyone. We should focus on what RS can do to make the reading experience more accessible (zooming). 13:13:18 q+ 13:13:40 ack gpellegrino 13:13:57 KenJones: Do we want to name a production solution and limit us to what it allows? 13:14:45 gpellegrino: proposal is to split the work into what is achievable right now and what is achievable in 5 years as an ecosystem. 13:14:49 q+ 13:15:13 ack Ken_Jones 13:15:15 wendyreid: we want to avoid naming tools or company as much as possible. 13:15:36 q+ 13:15:47 ack gpellegrino 13:17:18 q+ 13:17:28 Ken_Jones: just to be clear, state of the art means what is actually achievable without coding. 13:17:43 ack gpellegrino 13:18:40 gpellegrino: i don't wan tto lower the bar but i don't want to tell the comission something can be done and place publishers in a too difficult situation. 13:19:48 wendyreid: we don't have much time for this state of the art document. 13:19:50 q+ 13:20:10 wendyreid: my sugestion is we split the group 13:20:12 ack gautier 13:20:15 scribe+ 13:20:50 gautier: is the actual published document sufficient for telling what is achievable right now? 13:20:51 q+ 13:20:56 ack gpellegrino 13:21:47 wendyreid: the document might be suficient but we have to check. 13:21:57 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_the_art "The state of the art (SOTA, sometimes cutting edge or leading edge) refers to the highest level of general development, as of a device, technique, or scientific field achieved at a particular time." 13:21:58 q+ 13:23:20 gpellegrino: some things we say in the actual document are difficult to achieve, we should anotate that to make sure readers are aware of complexity to achieve. 13:23:29 ack CharlesL 13:24:36 CharlesL: we want to work with RS providers to write this section "FXL EPUB Accessibility Guidance for Reading Systems" 13:24:52 q+ 13:25:10 ack gautier 13:26:03 gautier: from Thorium developing team, we have different requests from different publishers or groups. I'm not sure if we can work on something for FXL without defining best-practices... 13:26:05 q+ 13:26:45 ... what we see from EDRLab is that we want to work on that, but we need specs to develop on things that we'll be used 13:26:48 ack gpellegrino 13:27:46 q+ 13:27:52 ack gautier 13:29:49 wendyreid: my ask is who would be interested to lead that side of the work? I am pretty occupied actually. I mean management of explorative work. 13:29:53 q+ 13:29:56 ack gpellegrino 13:30:36 gpellegrino: more than happy but after we end the work for the comission. 13:32:06 wendyreid: becaus ethis comission work is short time, I hope we have it delivered by the end of the year. To get that done I suggest to increase the meeting frequency. 13:32:22 q+ 13:32:27 fine to change day/hour and to have weekly meetings 13:32:34 ack CharlesL 13:32:52 CharlesL: an hour later? 13:33:06 also fine to change day/hour and to have weekly meetings 13:34:00 wendyreid: so we change to 14 UTC. 13:35:12 That works. 13:35:31 wendyreid: I'll propose a poll for the day. 13:35:48 Documentation works. 13:35:54 +1 for the docs 13:35:57 wendyreid: just to check who does not want to be on documentation wg 13:36:00 q+ 13:36:07 Rachel_O: I can help with documentation 13:36:10 ack Ken_Jones 13:37:31 Ken_Jones: I'm interested being on both. 13:38:32 q+ 13:38:46 ack CharlesL 13:40:37 wendyreid: document for comission will be a community group note, but experimental document does not need formal formating. 13:40:55 s/community group note/working group note/ 13:41:13 q+ 13:41:19 ack Ken_Jones 13:42:23 q+ 13:42:27 ack CharlesL 13:43:08 q+ 13:43:10 q+ 13:43:19 ack gpellegrino 13:43:37 ack Ken_Jones 13:43:41 CharlesL: the document could also point to excemptions. 13:44:23 q+ 13:44:37 ack gpellegrino 13:44:39 q+ 13:44:45 Specific features of special volumes like comics, children’s books and art books should be considered in the light of all applicable accessibility requirements. 13:45:00 gpellegrino: this are copy past from the EAA... 13:45:49 ack wendyreid 13:47:22 wendyreid: we ar enot supposed to talk about tools. Not all publishers use the same toolings. We can't be partisan here. 13:48:28 q+ 13:48:47 q+ 13:48:55 ack CharlesL 13:49:43 q+ 13:49:45 ack Ken_Jones 13:49:45 CharlesL: so, if i am a small publisher doint children books, how do I know about my book accessibility? What adivse do we give to this publisher? 13:50:39 s/doint/doing 13:51:08 ack gpellegrino 13:51:10 Ken_Jones: image description and reading order are to of the list problems to fix for FXL. Human looking at the book is still required. 13:52:23 gpellegrino: ACE checks FXL but There are limits, as exemple it does not warns about portrait/landscape blocking. 13:53:05 wendyreid: we can inform Daisy team about what we want in ACE, we have this chance. 13:53:23 q+ 13:53:30 ack CharlesL 13:54:37 CharlesL: we wonder when AI will be part of this testing suits. Possibilities will arrive soon. 13:55:02 q+ 13:55:41 ack gautier 13:58:05 CharlesL has left #epub-fxl 13:58:28 duga has left #epub-fxl 14:26:00 rrsagent, please draft minutes 14:26:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/19-epub-fxl-minutes.html wendyreid 14:33:59 zakim, end meeting 14:33:59 As of this point the attendees have been gpellegrino, duga, gautier, CharlesL, wendyreid, Ken_Jones, Rachel_O, jamesY 14:34:01 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 14:34:03 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/19-epub-fxl-minutes.html Zakim 14:34:08 I am happy to have been of service, wendyreid; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 14:34:15 Zakim has left #epub-fxl 14:48:34 rrsagent, bye 14:48:34 I see no action items