IRC log of wcag3-motion on 2023-09-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 12:58:34 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-motion
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-wcag3-motion-irc
- 12:58:38 [Rain]
- zakim, start meeting
- 12:58:38 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 12:58:39 [Zakim]
- please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Rain
- 12:58:44 [Rain]
- rrsagent, make logs world
- 12:58:51 [Rain]
- meeting name: Harm from motion subgroup meeting 8
- 12:58:58 [Rain]
- chair: Rain
- 12:59:09 [Rain]
- present+ Rain kirkwood
- 12:59:23 [Rain]
- agenda+ find a scribe
- 12:59:34 [Rain]
- agenda+ review feedback from presentation
- 12:59:45 [Eric_hind]
- Eric_hind has joined #wcag3-motion
- 12:59:46 [Rain]
- agenda+ review our draft
- 12:59:57 [Rain]
- agenda+ determine how we will wrap draft and pull request
- 13:00:02 [Rain]
- agenda+ celebrate!
- 13:00:24 [jedi]
- present+
- 13:00:51 [AndySomers]
- AndySomers has joined #wcag3-motion
- 13:01:02 [AndySomers]
- present+
- 13:01:38 [jeanne]
- jeanne has joined #wcag3-motion
- 13:03:01 [Rain]
- agenda?
- 13:03:11 [Rain]
- zakim, take up item 1
- 13:03:11 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- find a scribe -- taken up [from Rain]
- 13:03:21 [Rain]
- scribe: Eric_hind
- 13:03:26 [Rain]
- scribe+ Rain
- 13:03:39 [alastairc]
- present+
- 13:03:40 [Rain]
- zakim, take up item 2
- 13:03:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- review feedback from presentation -- taken up [from Rain]
- 13:03:51 [Eric_hind]
- present+
- 13:06:12 [jeanne]
- present+
- 13:06:33 [Rain]
- Feedback from Sept 5 AGWG meeting - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jCOE4cO68V-QUiZEhJNkrQydNmW71ljaCGGu2Zmnlok/edit#heading=h.mjgzi6tjo9ev
- 13:08:55 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: We can add any/all criteria change names/naming for this pull request. Wilco was concerned about some operational definitions and user-centric phrasing.
- 13:09:36 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: We may want to break out some criteria into many.
- 13:11:01 [alastairc]
- q+ on categorisation of guidelines
- 13:11:38 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Brought up some concerns about moving some criteria to others, consolidating others, avoiding overlap with existing criteria (like flashing- but adding onto it)
- 13:11:48 [Rain]
- ack alastairc
- 13:11:48 [Zakim]
- alastairc, you wanted to comment on categorisation of guidelines
- 13:12:59 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:13:08 [AndySomers]
- q+
- 13:13:12 [Eric_hind]
- Alastair: We (our subgroup) should worry too much about scope; it (sorting into the right buckets) will be addressed with grouping exercises after conclusions in the subgroup.
- 13:13:15 [Rain]
- ack AndySomers
- 13:13:30 [alastairc]
- s/should worry too much/should not worry too much
- 13:14:36 [alastairc]
- q+
- 13:15:20 [Rain]
- ack alastairc
- 13:15:42 [Eric_hind]
- Alastair: Update that should be 'should not worry too much about scope'
- 13:16:38 [Eric_hind]
- Andy: Concern about potential harm category; setup a database of these SC's that might cause harm. Alastair: There will be WCAG processes/exercises to deal with this at a later time.
- 13:17:02 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:18:22 [Rain]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 13:18:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- review our draft -- taken up [from Rain]
- 13:19:47 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Note that historic work will be under the Scratchpad ---- header marker in the scratch document. Current (top) is the exploratory draft header and sections.
- 13:20:36 [alastairc]
- q+ to suggest leaving it as just the long name, we're about to do a categorisation exercise.
- 13:21:02 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Naming of Harm from Motion as title; thoughts about positive/negative naming.
- 13:21:03 [AndySomers]
- "Do Not Harm"
- 13:21:11 [Rain]
- ack alastairc
- 13:21:11 [Zakim]
- alastairc, you wanted to suggest leaving it as just the long name, we're about to do a categorisation exercise.
- 13:22:01 [AndySomers]
- "do no harm" I menat
- 13:22:01 [Eric_hind]
- Alastair: Current title is fine, there will be further categorization exercises to advance this if needed.
- 13:22:07 [AndySomers]
- meant
- 13:22:31 [Eric_hind]
- +1
- 13:22:32 [jeanne]
- 0
- 13:22:35 [AndySomers]
- Harm Prevention
- 13:22:42 [alastairc]
- +1, a long-ish but something explicit that matches the outcomes is good
- 13:23:12 [AndySomers]
- Preventing Harmful Content
- 13:23:26 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Adding alternative titles for future sorting exercises.
- 13:23:36 [AndySomers]
- Avoiding Harm from Motion
- 13:24:08 [AndySomers]
- okay for PR
- 13:24:15 [jeanne]
- ok for PR
- 13:24:17 [jedi]
- OK for PR
- 13:24:18 [Eric_hind]
- OK for PR
- 13:24:27 [Rain]
- Decision to stick with what we have, along with suggestions of potential alternates
- 13:24:39 [alastairc]
- It's tricky, as there is 'motion' as in physically moving, and 'motion' as in animation. Worth punting to the caterorisation exercise.
- 13:25:46 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Functional Needs review (9 items)
- 13:25:52 [AndySomers]
- Balance
- 13:26:06 [AndySomers]
- Use without disrupting balance?
- 13:27:30 [AndySomers]
- Particularly for VR
- 13:27:45 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Per discussion, add 'Use with limited field of vision' as item 10.
- 13:27:48 [AndySomers]
- hmmm
- 13:28:02 [jeanne]
- +1 to Andy's proposal
- 13:29:09 [AndySomers]
- the field of vision and eye tracking go togheter
- 13:29:19 [alastairc]
- Remember we're trying to pull things from https://w3c.github.io/fast/#functional-needs
- 13:29:34 [alastairc]
- It's ok to have others, but need to highlight when they are new/different.
- 13:30:11 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:30:20 [AndySomers]
- Doh I should bu in the doc LOL
- 13:30:24 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: per discussion, add 'Use without disrupting balance and/or use with challenges with balance' as item 11
- 13:30:31 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:31:01 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Review user stories.. This will require some additional work this week.
- 13:31:40 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:32:00 [AndySomers]
- q+
- 13:32:15 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:32:17 [Rain]
- ack AndySomers
- 13:33:52 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Story 1, As a user who might experience harm from motion, I need... Open review.
- 13:34:24 [jeanne]
- q+ to add
- 13:35:27 [alastairc]
- q+ on the levels between user-story one and two
- 13:35:32 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Story 2: As an individual who experiences sensory overload and/or visual processing difficulties, I need to be able to.. Open review
- 13:36:03 [Rain]
- ack jeanne
- 13:36:03 [Zakim]
- jeanne, you wanted to add
- 13:37:54 [Rain]
- ack alastairc
- 13:37:54 [Zakim]
- alastairc, you wanted to comment on the levels between user-story one and two
- 13:38:46 [AndySomers]
- q+
- 13:38:59 [Rain]
- ack AndySomers
- 13:40:32 [alastairc]
- Probably best to assign the levels when we get to outcomes / methods.
- 13:42:50 [Eric_hind]
- Jeanne: Add to story 1: need to be able to complete a task when motion exists in the content, even if its not the specific content that I'm currently engaged with.
- 13:43:01 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:43:31 [AndySomers]
- group +1
- 13:43:36 [Eric_hind]
- 0
- 13:43:42 [alastairc]
- 0, so long as we have them, I'm not too concerned with the grouping.
- 13:43:45 [Rain]
- +1 to combine 1 and 2, 0 to don't care, -1 to no
- 13:43:52 [jeanne]
- -1 - differences betweeen the groups or 0
- 13:43:57 [jedi]
- -1
- 13:44:00 [AndySomers]
- grouping for now is probably good... re-categorizing is a different task level...
- 13:44:46 [AndySomers]
- +1
- 13:45:06 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: We will keep stories 1 and 2 separate rather than combine them. We could enhance the title of story 2 to 'accessibility barriers'
- 13:45:08 [Rain]
- Decision, not merging.
- 13:45:15 [Rain]
- Is this new title sufficient? As an individual who experiences accessibility barriers due to motion, such as sensory overload and/or visual processing difficulties, I need to be able to
- 13:45:19 [Eric_hind]
- +1
- 13:45:24 [kirkwood]
- +1
- 13:45:25 [AndySomers]
- +1
- 13:45:25 [Rain]
- +1 to agree, 0 don't care, -1 no
- 13:45:27 [alastairc]
- +1
- 13:45:35 [jeanne]
- +1
- 13:45:38 [jedi]
- +1
- 13:46:44 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:46:49 [AndySomers]
- q+
- 13:47:15 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Story 3 As an individual with working and/or photographic memory difficulties, I need, and Story 4 As an individual who experiences difficulty with motor control, I need. Open discussion
- 13:48:22 [Rain]
- ack AndySomers
- 13:48:30 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Per John, adjust Story 4, item a, change to reposition/reprogram
- 13:50:05 [Eric_hind]
- Andy: Concern when page content changes, there are users who do need motion as an attention indicator.
- 13:50:46 [kirkwood]
- suggestion modify: “stay in the same place” to “stay in the same place on the page”
- 13:51:27 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:51:36 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Per Andy, adjust title of story 3 to include 'limitations to my field of vision'. Add point C around importance of motion; and this relates to customization of motion.
- 13:52:40 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: Review of Outcomes and then assign tasks for final clean up.
- 13:53:26 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:53:52 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: For outcome 3, do we want physical (physical reactions) in the title? Change to negative, harmful discussed.
- 13:54:38 [Rain]
- q?
- 13:54:55 [Eric_hind]
- Rain: All outcomes generally identified; outcomes 5-7 may end up in other categories at a later time.
- 13:55:37 [AndySomers]
- Unexpected motion is important to have an outcome
- 13:56:13 [AndySomers]
- An important consideration for warnings: specificity.
- 13:56:15 [AndySomers]
- q+
- 13:56:18 [Eric_hind]
- John: Continuous motion category implies that we might also need Unexpected motion. Added to questions and research needs.
- 13:56:38 [Rain]
- ack AndySomers
- 13:58:09 [Rain]
- zakim, take up item 5
- 13:58:09 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- celebrate! -- taken up [from Rain]
- 13:58:16 [Rain]
- zakim, take up item 4
- 13:58:16 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- determine how we will wrap draft and pull request -- taken up [from Rain]
- 13:58:19 [kirkwood]
- present+
- 13:58:40 [Eric_hind_]
- Eric_hind_ has joined #wcag3-motion
- 13:59:45 [Eric_hind_]
- Rain: We do need research and references in the User story level. By end of day Thursday, could everyone to add references into the user stories or Outcomes known research and validation.
- 14:00:08 [Rain]
- q?
- 14:00:39 [Eric_hind_]
- +1
- 14:00:40 [AndySomers]
- +1 should; be
- 14:00:42 [jeanne]
- q+ to say that the PR is changing, so I will do the PR.
- 14:00:45 [Rain]
- +1 from those who will add research to the document
- 14:00:49 [jeanne]
- +1
- 14:00:50 [jedi]
- +1
- 14:00:53 [alastairc]
- I'll try, but I'm working on 4 others pull requests...
- 14:01:21 [AndySomers]
- And I can do GitHub stuff as well...
- 14:01:33 [Rain]
- by EOD thursday, group puts in research
- 14:01:46 [Rain]
- by EOD friday, Rain cleans up the document and turns over to Jeanne for PR
- 14:01:54 [Rain]
- q?
- 14:02:00 [Rain]
- ack jeanne
- 14:02:00 [Zakim]
- jeanne, you wanted to say that the PR is changing, so I will do the PR.
- 14:02:07 [Rain]
- zakim, take up item 5
- 14:02:07 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- celebrate! -- taken up [from Rain]
- 14:03:55 [Rain]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 14:03:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Rain
- 14:04:43 [Rain]
- zakim, end meeting
- 14:04:43 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Rain, kirkwood, jedi, AndySomers, alastairc, Eric_hind, jeanne
- 14:04:45 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 14:04:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Zakim
- 14:04:52 [Zakim]
- I am happy to have been of service, Rain; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
- 14:04:53 [Zakim]
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