12:58:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-motion
12:58:38 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-wcag3-motion-irc
12:58:38 <Rain> zakim, start meeting
12:58:38 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:58:39 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Rain
12:58:44 <Rain> rrsagent, make logs world
12:58:51 <Rain> meeting name: Harm from motion subgroup meeting 8
12:58:58 <Rain> chair: Rain
12:59:09 <Rain> present+ Rain kirkwood
12:59:23 <Rain> agenda+ find a scribe
12:59:34 <Rain> agenda+ review feedback from presentation
12:59:45 <Eric_hind> Eric_hind has joined #wcag3-motion
12:59:46 <Rain> agenda+ review our draft
12:59:57 <Rain> agenda+ determine how we will wrap draft and pull request
13:00:02 <Rain> agenda+ celebrate!
13:00:24 <jedi> present+
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13:01:02 <AndySomers> present+
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13:03:01 <Rain> agenda?
13:03:11 <Rain> zakim, take up item 1
13:03:11 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- find a scribe -- taken up [from Rain]
13:03:21 <Rain> scribe: Eric_hind
13:03:26 <Rain> scribe+ Rain
13:03:39 <alastairc> present+
13:03:40 <Rain> zakim, take up item 2
13:03:40 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- review feedback from presentation -- taken up [from Rain]
13:03:51 <Eric_hind> present+
13:06:12 <jeanne> present+
13:06:33 <Rain> Feedback from Sept 5 AGWG meeting - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jCOE4cO68V-QUiZEhJNkrQydNmW71ljaCGGu2Zmnlok/edit#heading=h.mjgzi6tjo9ev
13:08:55 <Eric_hind> Rain: We can add any/all criteria change names/naming for this pull request.  Wilco was concerned about some operational definitions and user-centric phrasing.
13:09:36 <Eric_hind> Rain: We may want to break out some criteria into many.
13:11:01 <alastairc> q+ on categorisation of guidelines
13:11:38 <Eric_hind> Rain: Brought up some concerns about moving some criteria to others, consolidating others, avoiding overlap with existing criteria (like flashing- but adding onto it)
13:11:48 <Rain> ack alastairc
13:11:48 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to comment on categorisation of guidelines
13:12:59 <Rain> q?
13:13:08 <AndySomers> q+
13:13:12 <Eric_hind> Alastair: We (our subgroup) should worry too much about scope; it (sorting into the right buckets) will be addressed with grouping exercises after conclusions in the subgroup.
13:13:15 <Rain> ack AndySomers
13:13:30 <alastairc> s/should worry too much/should not worry too much
13:14:36 <alastairc> q+
13:15:20 <Rain> ack alastairc
13:15:42 <Eric_hind> Alastair: Update that should be 'should not worry too much about scope'
13:16:38 <Eric_hind> Andy: Concern about potential harm category; setup a database of these SC's that might cause harm.  Alastair: There will be WCAG processes/exercises to deal with this at a later time.
13:17:02 <Rain> q?
13:18:22 <Rain> zakim, take up item 3
13:18:22 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- review our draft -- taken up [from Rain]
13:19:47 <Eric_hind> Rain: Note that historic work will be under the Scratchpad ---- header marker in the scratch document.  Current (top) is the exploratory draft header and sections.
13:20:36 <alastairc> q+ to suggest leaving it as just the long name, we're about to do a categorisation exercise.
13:21:02 <Eric_hind> Rain: Naming of Harm from Motion as title; thoughts about positive/negative naming.
13:21:03 <AndySomers> "Do Not Harm"
13:21:11 <Rain> ack alastairc
13:21:11 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to suggest leaving it as just the long name, we're about to do a categorisation exercise.
13:22:01 <AndySomers> "do no harm" I menat
13:22:01 <Eric_hind> Alastair:  Current title is fine, there will be further categorization exercises to advance this if needed.
13:22:07 <AndySomers> meant
13:22:31 <Eric_hind> +1
13:22:32 <jeanne> 0
13:22:35 <AndySomers> Harm Prevention
13:22:42 <alastairc> +1, a long-ish but something explicit that matches the outcomes is good
13:23:12 <AndySomers> Preventing Harmful Content
13:23:26 <Eric_hind> Rain: Adding alternative titles for future sorting exercises.
13:23:36 <AndySomers> Avoiding Harm from Motion
13:24:08 <AndySomers> okay for PR
13:24:15 <jeanne>  ok for PR
13:24:17 <jedi> OK for PR
13:24:18 <Eric_hind> OK for PR
13:24:27 <Rain> Decision to stick with what we have, along with suggestions of potential alternates
13:24:39 <alastairc> It's tricky, as there is 'motion' as in physically moving, and 'motion' as in animation. Worth punting to the caterorisation exercise.
13:25:46 <Eric_hind> Rain: Functional Needs review (9 items)
13:25:52 <AndySomers> Balance
13:26:06 <AndySomers> Use without disrupting balance?
13:27:30 <AndySomers> Particularly for VR
13:27:45 <Eric_hind> Rain: Per discussion, add 'Use with limited field of vision' as item 10.
13:27:48 <AndySomers> hmmm
13:28:02 <jeanne> +1 to Andy's proposal
13:29:09 <AndySomers> the field of vision and eye tracking go togheter
13:29:19 <alastairc> Remember we're trying to pull things from https://w3c.github.io/fast/#functional-needs
13:29:34 <alastairc> It's ok to have others, but need to highlight when they are new/different.
13:30:11 <Rain> q?
13:30:20 <AndySomers> Doh I should bu in the doc LOL
13:30:24 <Eric_hind> Rain: per discussion, add 'Use without disrupting balance and/or use with challenges with balance' as item 11
13:30:31 <Rain> q?
13:31:01 <Eric_hind> Rain: Review user stories.. This will require some additional work this week.
13:31:40 <Rain> q?
13:32:00 <AndySomers> q+
13:32:15 <Rain> q?
13:32:17 <Rain> ack AndySomers
13:33:52 <Eric_hind> Rain: Story 1, As a user who might experience harm from motion, I need...  Open review.
13:34:24 <jeanne> q+ to add
13:35:27 <alastairc> q+ on the levels between user-story one and two
13:35:32 <Eric_hind> Rain: Story 2: As an individual who experiences sensory overload and/or visual processing difficulties, I need to be able to.. Open review
13:36:03 <Rain> ack jeanne
13:36:03 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to add
13:37:54 <Rain> ack alastairc
13:37:54 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to comment on the levels between user-story one and two
13:38:46 <AndySomers> q+
13:38:59 <Rain> ack AndySomers
13:40:32 <alastairc> Probably best to assign the levels when we get to outcomes / methods.
13:42:50 <Eric_hind> Jeanne: Add to story 1: need to be able to complete a task when motion exists in the content, even if its not the specific content that I'm currently engaged with.
13:43:01 <Rain> q?
13:43:31 <AndySomers> group  +1
13:43:36 <Eric_hind> 0
13:43:42 <alastairc> 0, so long as we have them, I'm not too concerned with the grouping.
13:43:45 <Rain> +1 to combine 1 and 2, 0 to don't care, -1 to no
13:43:52 <jeanne> -1 - differences betweeen the groups or 0
13:43:57 <jedi> -1
13:44:00 <AndySomers> grouping for now is probably good... re-categorizing is a different task level...
13:44:46 <AndySomers> +1
13:45:06 <Eric_hind> Rain: We will keep stories 1 and 2 separate rather than combine them.  We could enhance the title of story 2 to 'accessibility barriers'
13:45:08 <Rain> Decision, not merging.
13:45:15 <Rain> Is this new title sufficient? As an individual who experiences accessibility barriers due to motion, such as  sensory overload and/or visual processing difficulties, I need to be able to
13:45:19 <Eric_hind> +1
13:45:24 <kirkwood> +1
13:45:25 <AndySomers> +1
13:45:25 <Rain> +1 to agree, 0 don't care, -1 no
13:45:27 <alastairc> +1
13:45:35 <jeanne> +1
13:45:38 <jedi> +1
13:46:44 <Rain> q?
13:46:49 <AndySomers> q+
13:47:15 <Eric_hind> Rain: Story 3 As an individual with working and/or photographic memory difficulties, I need, and Story 4 As an individual who experiences difficulty with motor control, I need.  Open discussion
13:48:22 <Rain> ack AndySomers
13:48:30 <Eric_hind> Rain: Per John, adjust Story 4, item a, change to reposition/reprogram
13:50:05 <Eric_hind> Andy: Concern when page content changes, there are users who do need motion as an attention indicator.
13:50:46 <kirkwood> suggestion modify: “stay in the same place” to “stay in the same place on the page”
13:51:27 <Rain> q?
13:51:36 <Eric_hind> Rain: Per Andy, adjust title of story 3 to include 'limitations to my field of vision'.  Add point C around importance of motion; and this relates to customization of motion.
13:52:40 <Eric_hind> Rain: Review of Outcomes and then assign tasks for final clean up.
13:53:26 <Rain> q?
13:53:52 <Eric_hind> Rain: For outcome 3, do we want physical (physical reactions) in the title?   Change to negative, harmful discussed.
13:54:38 <Rain> q?
13:54:55 <Eric_hind> Rain: All outcomes generally identified; outcomes 5-7 may end up in other categories at a later time.
13:55:37 <AndySomers> Unexpected motion is important to have an outcome
13:56:13 <AndySomers> An important consideration for warnings: specificity.
13:56:15 <AndySomers> q+
13:56:18 <Eric_hind> John: Continuous motion category implies that we might also need Unexpected motion.  Added to questions and research needs.
13:56:38 <Rain> ack AndySomers
13:58:09 <Rain> zakim, take up item 5
13:58:09 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- celebrate! -- taken up [from Rain]
13:58:16 <Rain> zakim, take up item 4
13:58:16 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- determine how we will wrap draft and pull request -- taken up [from Rain]
13:58:19 <kirkwood> present+
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13:59:45 <Eric_hind_> Rain: We do need research and references in the User story level.  By end of day Thursday, could everyone to add references into the user stories or Outcomes known research and validation.
14:00:08 <Rain> q?
14:00:39 <Eric_hind_> +1
14:00:40 <AndySomers> +1 should; be
14:00:42 <jeanne> q+ to say that the PR is changing, so I will do the PR.
14:00:45 <Rain> +1 from those who will add research to the document
14:00:49 <jeanne> +1
14:00:50 <jedi> +1
14:00:53 <alastairc> I'll try, but I'm working on 4 others pull requests...
14:01:21 <AndySomers> And I can do GitHub stuff as well...
14:01:33 <Rain> by EOD thursday, group puts in research
14:01:46 <Rain> by EOD friday, Rain cleans up the document and turns over to Jeanne for PR
14:01:54 <Rain> q?
14:02:00 <Rain> ack jeanne
14:02:00 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say that the PR is changing, so I will do the PR.
14:02:07 <Rain> zakim, take up item 5
14:02:07 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- celebrate! -- taken up [from Rain]
14:03:55 <Rain> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:03:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Rain
14:04:43 <Rain> zakim, end meeting
14:04:43 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Rain, kirkwood, jedi, AndySomers, alastairc, Eric_hind, jeanne
14:04:45 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:04:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Zakim
14:04:52 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Rain; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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