IRC log of wcag3-motion on 2023-09-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:58:34 [RRSAgent]
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12:58:38 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-wcag3-motion-irc
12:58:38 [Rain]
zakim, start meeting
12:58:38 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:58:39 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Rain
12:58:44 [Rain]
rrsagent, make logs world
12:58:51 [Rain]
meeting name: Harm from motion subgroup meeting 8
12:58:58 [Rain]
chair: Rain
12:59:09 [Rain]
present+ Rain kirkwood
12:59:23 [Rain]
agenda+ find a scribe
12:59:34 [Rain]
agenda+ review feedback from presentation
12:59:45 [Eric_hind]
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12:59:46 [Rain]
agenda+ review our draft
12:59:57 [Rain]
agenda+ determine how we will wrap draft and pull request
13:00:02 [Rain]
agenda+ celebrate!
13:00:24 [jedi]
present+
13:00:51 [AndySomers]
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13:01:02 [AndySomers]
present+
13:01:38 [jeanne]
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13:03:01 [Rain]
agenda?
13:03:11 [Rain]
zakim, take up item 1
13:03:11 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- find a scribe -- taken up [from Rain]
13:03:21 [Rain]
scribe: Eric_hind
13:03:26 [Rain]
scribe+ Rain
13:03:39 [alastairc]
present+
13:03:40 [Rain]
zakim, take up item 2
13:03:40 [Zakim]
agendum 2 -- review feedback from presentation -- taken up [from Rain]
13:03:51 [Eric_hind]
present+
13:06:12 [jeanne]
present+
13:06:33 [Rain]
Feedback from Sept 5 AGWG meeting - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jCOE4cO68V-QUiZEhJNkrQydNmW71ljaCGGu2Zmnlok/edit#heading=h.mjgzi6tjo9ev
13:08:55 [Eric_hind]
Rain: We can add any/all criteria change names/naming for this pull request. Wilco was concerned about some operational definitions and user-centric phrasing.
13:09:36 [Eric_hind]
Rain: We may want to break out some criteria into many.
13:11:01 [alastairc]
q+ on categorisation of guidelines
13:11:38 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Brought up some concerns about moving some criteria to others, consolidating others, avoiding overlap with existing criteria (like flashing- but adding onto it)
13:11:48 [Rain]
ack alastairc
13:11:48 [Zakim]
alastairc, you wanted to comment on categorisation of guidelines
13:12:59 [Rain]
q?
13:13:08 [AndySomers]
q+
13:13:12 [Eric_hind]
Alastair: We (our subgroup) should worry too much about scope; it (sorting into the right buckets) will be addressed with grouping exercises after conclusions in the subgroup.
13:13:15 [Rain]
ack AndySomers
13:13:30 [alastairc]
s/should worry too much/should not worry too much
13:14:36 [alastairc]
q+
13:15:20 [Rain]
ack alastairc
13:15:42 [Eric_hind]
Alastair: Update that should be 'should not worry too much about scope'
13:16:38 [Eric_hind]
Andy: Concern about potential harm category; setup a database of these SC's that might cause harm. Alastair: There will be WCAG processes/exercises to deal with this at a later time.
13:17:02 [Rain]
q?
13:18:22 [Rain]
zakim, take up item 3
13:18:22 [Zakim]
agendum 3 -- review our draft -- taken up [from Rain]
13:19:47 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Note that historic work will be under the Scratchpad ---- header marker in the scratch document. Current (top) is the exploratory draft header and sections.
13:20:36 [alastairc]
q+ to suggest leaving it as just the long name, we're about to do a categorisation exercise.
13:21:02 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Naming of Harm from Motion as title; thoughts about positive/negative naming.
13:21:03 [AndySomers]
"Do Not Harm"
13:21:11 [Rain]
ack alastairc
13:21:11 [Zakim]
alastairc, you wanted to suggest leaving it as just the long name, we're about to do a categorisation exercise.
13:22:01 [AndySomers]
"do no harm" I menat
13:22:01 [Eric_hind]
Alastair: Current title is fine, there will be further categorization exercises to advance this if needed.
13:22:07 [AndySomers]
meant
13:22:31 [Eric_hind]
+1
13:22:32 [jeanne]
0
13:22:35 [AndySomers]
Harm Prevention
13:22:42 [alastairc]
+1, a long-ish but something explicit that matches the outcomes is good
13:23:12 [AndySomers]
Preventing Harmful Content
13:23:26 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Adding alternative titles for future sorting exercises.
13:23:36 [AndySomers]
Avoiding Harm from Motion
13:24:08 [AndySomers]
okay for PR
13:24:15 [jeanne]
ok for PR
13:24:17 [jedi]
OK for PR
13:24:18 [Eric_hind]
OK for PR
13:24:27 [Rain]
Decision to stick with what we have, along with suggestions of potential alternates
13:24:39 [alastairc]
It's tricky, as there is 'motion' as in physically moving, and 'motion' as in animation. Worth punting to the caterorisation exercise.
13:25:46 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Functional Needs review (9 items)
13:25:52 [AndySomers]
Balance
13:26:06 [AndySomers]
Use without disrupting balance?
13:27:30 [AndySomers]
Particularly for VR
13:27:45 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Per discussion, add 'Use with limited field of vision' as item 10.
13:27:48 [AndySomers]
hmmm
13:28:02 [jeanne]
+1 to Andy's proposal
13:29:09 [AndySomers]
the field of vision and eye tracking go togheter
13:29:19 [alastairc]
Remember we're trying to pull things from https://w3c.github.io/fast/#functional-needs
13:29:34 [alastairc]
It's ok to have others, but need to highlight when they are new/different.
13:30:11 [Rain]
q?
13:30:20 [AndySomers]
Doh I should bu in the doc LOL
13:30:24 [Eric_hind]
Rain: per discussion, add 'Use without disrupting balance and/or use with challenges with balance' as item 11
13:30:31 [Rain]
q?
13:31:01 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Review user stories.. This will require some additional work this week.
13:31:40 [Rain]
q?
13:32:00 [AndySomers]
q+
13:32:15 [Rain]
q?
13:32:17 [Rain]
ack AndySomers
13:33:52 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Story 1, As a user who might experience harm from motion, I need... Open review.
13:34:24 [jeanne]
q+ to add
13:35:27 [alastairc]
q+ on the levels between user-story one and two
13:35:32 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Story 2: As an individual who experiences sensory overload and/or visual processing difficulties, I need to be able to.. Open review
13:36:03 [Rain]
ack jeanne
13:36:03 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to add
13:37:54 [Rain]
ack alastairc
13:37:54 [Zakim]
alastairc, you wanted to comment on the levels between user-story one and two
13:38:46 [AndySomers]
q+
13:38:59 [Rain]
ack AndySomers
13:40:32 [alastairc]
Probably best to assign the levels when we get to outcomes / methods.
13:42:50 [Eric_hind]
Jeanne: Add to story 1: need to be able to complete a task when motion exists in the content, even if its not the specific content that I'm currently engaged with.
13:43:01 [Rain]
q?
13:43:31 [AndySomers]
group +1
13:43:36 [Eric_hind]
0
13:43:42 [alastairc]
0, so long as we have them, I'm not too concerned with the grouping.
13:43:45 [Rain]
+1 to combine 1 and 2, 0 to don't care, -1 to no
13:43:52 [jeanne]
-1 - differences betweeen the groups or 0
13:43:57 [jedi]
-1
13:44:00 [AndySomers]
grouping for now is probably good... re-categorizing is a different task level...
13:44:46 [AndySomers]
+1
13:45:06 [Eric_hind]
Rain: We will keep stories 1 and 2 separate rather than combine them. We could enhance the title of story 2 to 'accessibility barriers'
13:45:08 [Rain]
Decision, not merging.
13:45:15 [Rain]
Is this new title sufficient? As an individual who experiences accessibility barriers due to motion, such as sensory overload and/or visual processing difficulties, I need to be able to
13:45:19 [Eric_hind]
+1
13:45:24 [kirkwood]
+1
13:45:25 [AndySomers]
+1
13:45:25 [Rain]
+1 to agree, 0 don't care, -1 no
13:45:27 [alastairc]
+1
13:45:35 [jeanne]
+1
13:45:38 [jedi]
+1
13:46:44 [Rain]
q?
13:46:49 [AndySomers]
q+
13:47:15 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Story 3 As an individual with working and/or photographic memory difficulties, I need, and Story 4 As an individual who experiences difficulty with motor control, I need. Open discussion
13:48:22 [Rain]
ack AndySomers
13:48:30 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Per John, adjust Story 4, item a, change to reposition/reprogram
13:50:05 [Eric_hind]
Andy: Concern when page content changes, there are users who do need motion as an attention indicator.
13:50:46 [kirkwood]
suggestion modify: “stay in the same place” to “stay in the same place on the page”
13:51:27 [Rain]
q?
13:51:36 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Per Andy, adjust title of story 3 to include 'limitations to my field of vision'. Add point C around importance of motion; and this relates to customization of motion.
13:52:40 [Eric_hind]
Rain: Review of Outcomes and then assign tasks for final clean up.
13:53:26 [Rain]
q?
13:53:52 [Eric_hind]
Rain: For outcome 3, do we want physical (physical reactions) in the title? Change to negative, harmful discussed.
13:54:38 [Rain]
q?
13:54:55 [Eric_hind]
Rain: All outcomes generally identified; outcomes 5-7 may end up in other categories at a later time.
13:55:37 [AndySomers]
Unexpected motion is important to have an outcome
13:56:13 [AndySomers]
An important consideration for warnings: specificity.
13:56:15 [AndySomers]
q+
13:56:18 [Eric_hind]
John: Continuous motion category implies that we might also need Unexpected motion. Added to questions and research needs.
13:56:38 [Rain]
ack AndySomers
13:58:09 [Rain]
zakim, take up item 5
13:58:09 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- celebrate! -- taken up [from Rain]
13:58:16 [Rain]
zakim, take up item 4
13:58:16 [Zakim]
agendum 4 -- determine how we will wrap draft and pull request -- taken up [from Rain]
13:58:19 [kirkwood]
present+
13:58:40 [Eric_hind_]
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13:59:45 [Eric_hind_]
Rain: We do need research and references in the User story level. By end of day Thursday, could everyone to add references into the user stories or Outcomes known research and validation.
14:00:08 [Rain]
q?
14:00:39 [Eric_hind_]
+1
14:00:40 [AndySomers]
+1 should; be
14:00:42 [jeanne]
q+ to say that the PR is changing, so I will do the PR.
14:00:45 [Rain]
+1 from those who will add research to the document
14:00:49 [jeanne]
+1
14:00:50 [jedi]
+1
14:00:53 [alastairc]
I'll try, but I'm working on 4 others pull requests...
14:01:21 [AndySomers]
And I can do GitHub stuff as well...
14:01:33 [Rain]
by EOD thursday, group puts in research
14:01:46 [Rain]
by EOD friday, Rain cleans up the document and turns over to Jeanne for PR
14:01:54 [Rain]
q?
14:02:00 [Rain]
ack jeanne
14:02:00 [Zakim]
jeanne, you wanted to say that the PR is changing, so I will do the PR.
14:02:07 [Rain]
zakim, take up item 5
14:02:07 [Zakim]
agendum 5 -- celebrate! -- taken up [from Rain]
14:03:55 [Rain]
rrsagent, generate minutes
14:03:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Rain
14:04:43 [Rain]
zakim, end meeting
14:04:43 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Rain, kirkwood, jedi, AndySomers, alastairc, Eric_hind, jeanne
14:04:45 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:04:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/18-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Zakim
14:04:52 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, Rain; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
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