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07:14:54 <Ian> Meeting: Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities
07:14:54 <Ian> Chair: Kazuyuki Ashimura
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13:40:24 <kaz> meeting: Web-based Digital Twins for Smart Cities
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13:58:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:58:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-smartcities-minutes.html kaz
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13:59:24 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura
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14:00:35 <Daihei> Kaz: opening annoucement
14:00:42 <shiestyle> present+
14:01:17 <Daihei> Asking all to give a short self-intro
14:01:17 <McCool> q+
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14:01:39 <LaurensDebackere> present+
14:01:42 <Daihei> Daihei Shiohama Media Do International Publishing Business Group c-chair
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14:01:47 <phila> present+
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14:01:55 <Daihei> Agenda shared
14:02:20 <Mizushima> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:02:26 <nhk-ryo> Ryo Yasuoka, NHK
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14:02:32 <hiroki_endo> Hiroki Endo NHK
14:02:53 <ohmata> Hisayuki_Ohmata, NHK
14:03:02 <shiestyle> Shinya Takami, KADOKAWA and co-chair of Publishing Maintenance WG
14:03:19 <Daihei> Kaz: Smartcity Workshop
14:04:09 <Daihei> TPAC2022 Smartcity meetings
14:04:29 <Daihei> Clarified needs of vocabraries
14:04:53 <Mizushima> Tomoaki Mizushima, IRI
14:05:25 <Daihei> Status of draft charter
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14:06:35 <Ege> present+
14:06:36 <Daihei> https://w3c.github.io/wot/charters/smart-cities/smart-cities-ig-charter.html
14:08:13 <McCool> (I have looked into the "definitional" issue, it's not that difficult - have not had a chance to comment on the issue).
14:08:17 <kaz> q+ McCool
14:08:55 <phila> q+
14:08:58 <shiestyle> ack McCool
14:09:46 <kaz> mm: we can give some simple definition in the Charter
14:09:55 <kaz> ... should include it in the Charter and the IG's name
14:10:10 <kaz> ack m
14:10:20 <kaz> pa: agree
14:10:28 <kaz> .. if you have the definition, it's OK
14:10:43 <shiestyle> ack phila
14:11:14 <kaz> q?
14:11:46 <McCool> Basically a digital twin consists of a virtual model, a real entity, and a link between them - three components
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14:12:27 <McCool> then we need to elaborate a bit on each component.  right now the charter emphasizes the "link" too much (IoT devices) but not the "model" (3D model? AI predictions?  State shadowing? Time series databases?)
14:13:21 <McCool> as mentioned by phila, people have different interpretations of the term, so we need to define it clearly and early in the doc if we use it
14:13:42 <kaz> kaz: (transferred comments from Kasuya-san)
14:13:51 <kaz> hirakawa: working on common data dictionary
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14:14:09 <kaz> ... IEC has database of terminology
14:14:49 <kaz> ... unfortunately, existing standard is not well-defined
14:15:00 <kaz> ... so IEC is working on smart standards
14:15:08 <kaz> ... there is a WG for that
14:15:16 <kaz> ... some groups now discussing that
14:15:33 <kaz> ... CDD will be a common platform for all the ICT systems
14:15:44 <kaz> ... for interoperability purposes
14:15:59 <kaz> ... standardized terminology is essential
14:16:17 <kaz> ... it's a good way to work with WoT
14:16:37 <kaz> ... for IEC's Common Data Dictionary
14:17:43 <kaz> matsuda: ECHONET Consortium is working on development of smart home appliances
14:17:44 <kaz> q?
14:18:04 <kaz> ... one of the important constituents for smart cities
14:18:18 <kaz> ... considering further collaborations
14:18:53 <kaz> q+ joshua
14:19:04 <kaz> joshua: from Uganda
14:19:24 <kaz> ... smart city is important to improve QoL
14:19:39 <kaz> ... to deal with climate change, etc.
14:20:20 <kaz> ... any projects or SDOs working on smart cities?
14:21:02 <McCool> ... probably some UN bodies with a focus on this, and there are various "targets" that Cities are aspiring to hit
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14:22:21 <McCool> https://unfccc.int/process-and-meetings/the-paris-agreement
14:22:52 <kaz> kaz mentions SDOs involved so far
14:22:53 <kaz> q?
14:22:55 <kaz> ack j
14:23:00 <kaz> q+ McCool
14:23:52 <kaz> mm: probably should cite this information
14:24:01 <kaz> ... UN FCC from UN
14:24:16 <kaz> q?
14:24:19 <kaz> ack mc
14:24:36 <kaz> ... how to deal with energy consumption, etc.,
14:25:09 <kaz> q?
14:25:44 <McCool> q+
14:25:51 <kaz> joshc: identify things
14:26:12 <kaz> ... getting information on air pollution
14:26:49 <phila> q+ to talk about identifiers
14:26:49 <kaz> ... but UI is defined by each application
14:27:21 <kaz> ... depending on geolocation now also
14:27:28 <kaz> ... difficult to handle it properly without proper geolocation information
14:27:39 <kaz> mm: narrow group focus
14:27:53 <kaz> ... UI to access the data
14:28:08 <kaz> ... one of the purposes of DT is accessing data
14:28:23 <kaz> ... data accessibility should be included in the scope
14:28:25 <kaz> q?
14:28:27 <kaz> ack m
14:28:35 <kaz> ... about making DT useful too
14:28:56 <kaz> kaz: yes
14:29:07 <kaz> ... "accessibility" in general to be considered
14:29:08 <kaz> q?
14:29:19 <kaz> mm: yeah, useful for people
14:29:42 <kaz> pa: use case document
14:29:52 <kaz> ... identifier is important
14:30:20 <kaz> ... for various devices and sensors
14:30:23 <McCool> q+
14:30:24 <kaz> ... that's easy to do
14:30:49 <kaz> ... but need for automatic identification
14:31:45 <kaz> kaz: need some mechanism for users as well
14:32:03 <kaz> ... a bit different from device identification of course, though
14:32:05 <kaz> q?
14:32:14 <phila> q-
14:32:31 <kaz> hirakawa: regarding environmental issues
14:32:50 <kaz> ... KC19 and SC3D are working
14:33:03 <kaz> ... some system on carbon calculation
14:33:32 <kaz> ... product-based manufacturing facilities
14:33:48 <kaz> ... CDD communicates with some kind of APIs
14:33:57 <kaz> ... with such kind of environmental data
14:34:03 <kaz> ack m
14:34:10 <kaz> mm: another question on identifier
14:34:24 <kaz> ... linked data uses URIs
14:34:30 <kaz> ... identify devices
14:34:44 <kaz> ... one thing to be added is citizen services
14:34:52 <kaz> ... need to guarantee privacy
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14:34:58 <kaz> ... privacy-driven way
14:35:14 <kaz> ... need to figure out what would be the right way
14:35:41 <kaz> ... need to include more user-centric viewpoints
14:35:44 <kaz> q?
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14:36:15 <phila> Phila: whispers that my session this morning was about how GS1's identifiers are increasingly encoded in URIs. Analogous organisations are doing the same. We all recognise the need to connects IDs to the Web
14:36:17 <kaz> kaz: let's collaborate even more
14:36:23 <McCool> @phila you beat me to it :)
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14:36:44 <kaz> umejima: very interesting topic
14:37:14 <kaz> ... one point to be considered
14:37:45 <kaz> ... in japan, all the electric power meters are handled in IoT manner
14:37:45 <kaz> ... active or not
14:38:01 <kaz> ... how to connect Web standards with device standards is my question
14:38:11 <kaz> ... would like to work with W3C
14:38:35 <kaz> kaz: power management should be one of the key use cases
14:38:44 <kaz> mm: it includes sensing
14:39:07 <kaz> q?
14:39:16 <kaz> q+ mm
14:39:33 <kaz> mm: question about relationship among smart city, smart building, etc.
14:39:46 <kaz> ... how the flow would work together?
14:39:56 <kaz> ... request power consumption, etc.
14:40:21 <kaz> ... battery for my house and my car
14:40:36 <kaz> ... one component missing is actions
14:40:44 <kaz> ... get feedback, etc.
14:40:49 <kaz> umejima: agree
14:41:19 <kaz> ... different mechanisms use different data models
14:41:31 <kaz> mm: can we automate actual data transfer?
14:41:53 <kaz> ume: would like to highlight various levels of connection
14:42:20 <kaz> mm: so many companies working on their own narrow silos
14:42:44 <kaz> q?
14:42:48 <kaz> ack m
14:43:08 <dezell> q+ to ask about digital twins in general
14:44:00 <McCool> one issue: how to *motivate* stakeholders to cooperate in supporting standards for data sharing?  What's in it for them?
14:44:35 <kaz> kaz: like WoT, would like to think about Web-based interconnection
14:44:38 <kaz> q?
14:44:42 <kaz> ack d
14:44:42 <Zakim> dezell, you wanted to ask about digital twins in general
14:45:19 <kaz> de: part of the digital twins might include garbage collection
14:45:32 <kaz> ... tracing memory trucks
14:45:42 <kaz> ... Michael talked about actions
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14:45:59 <kaz> ... how IoT can be in conjuction with DT?
14:46:17 <kaz> ... would keep WoT inline
14:46:38 <kaz> ... how to standardize the mechanism?
14:47:36 <kaz> mm: one critical problem will be handled by the next Charter of WoT
14:47:50 <kaz> ... the new WoT WG Charter is approved by the AC review
14:48:08 <kaz> ... smart cities is expected as promising use case
14:48:28 <kaz> ... need to handle geolocation information properly
14:48:32 <kaz> ... historical data also
14:48:40 <kaz> q?
14:49:02 <kaz> ... WoT focus is interoperability of Things
14:49:39 <kaz> kaz: yeah
14:50:16 <kaz> ... thought ECHONET also working on history management and grouping
14:50:16 <kaz> ... useful for smart homes but actually useful for smart cities as well
14:50:16 <kaz> q?
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14:50:36 <kaz> mm: in-zone vs outof-zone
14:50:40 <ktk> p+
14:50:49 <ktk> q?
14:50:53 <ktk> q+
14:51:00 <kaz> s/p+/
14:51:09 <kaz> mm: DT has 3 parts
14:51:56 <kaz> ... synchronization with Things
14:51:56 <kaz> ... data model
14:51:56 <kaz> ... including simulation
14:51:56 <kaz> ... spatial data and time data
14:52:17 <kaz> joshc: reminded me of some use case
14:52:41 <kaz> ... estimation of occupation within a bus
14:53:31 <kaz> ... another is calculation of doctors close to you
14:53:31 <McCool> q+
14:53:31 <kaz> ... depending on public transportation
14:53:41 <kaz> kaz: ambulances and fire trucks as well
14:53:47 <kaz> joshc: exactly
14:53:56 <kaz> ... capacity of day-care services
14:54:03 <kaz> s/ces/ces too/
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14:54:07 <kaz> ack ktk
14:54:14 <kaz> ack m
14:55:06 <kaz> mm: would figure out what "City" would like to do
14:55:06 <kaz> ... various services to be provided
14:55:06 <kaz> ... fire trucks related to emergency
14:55:08 <kaz> q?
14:55:51 <kaz> kaz: reminded me of earthquakes in Japan too
14:55:56 <kaz> mm: yeah
14:56:42 <kaz> ... Canada is also learning disaster management
14:56:42 <kaz> q?
14:56:42 <kaz> topic: Wrap-up
14:56:56 <ktk> s/joshc: reminded me of some use case/ktk: reminded me of some use case/
14:57:36 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/smartcities-workshop/issues GitHub issue for your comments
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14:58:12 <kaz> kaz: please give your comments directly to the GitHub Issue too
14:58:22 <kaz> [adjourned]
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15:34:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
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16:02:21 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-smartcities-minutes.html kaz
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