IRC log of schemata on 2023-09-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:28:55 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-schemata-irc
06:29:00 [tidoust]
RRSAgent, do not leave
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RRSAgent, make logs public
06:29:01 [tidoust]
Meeting: "You say Schemata, I say Schemas"
06:29:01 [tidoust]
Chair: Pierre-Antoine Champin, Ege Korkan
06:29:01 [tidoust]
Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/8
06:29:01 [tidoust]
clear agenda
06:29:03 [tidoust]
agenda+ Pick a scribe
06:29:05 [tidoust]
agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
06:29:07 [tidoust]
agenda+ Goal of this session
06:29:09 [tidoust]
agenda+ Discussion
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agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-schemata-irc
15:20:33 [glomb]
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15:20:38 [glomb]
present+
15:20:42 [Bert]
meeting: "You say Schemata, I say Schemas"
15:20:49 [ChrisMungall]
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15:20:49 [cfollenf]
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15:22:22 [ChrisMungall]
What @pierre is saying resonates with me, I love OWL, but I frequently see it mis-used for describing data and not the world
15:23:01 [Bert]
present+ Bert, Dingwei, atai, Ege, AaronCoburn, Dominik_T, pchampin, dape, ethieblin, Cristiano_Aguzzi, LaurensDebackere, phila, ktk, decentralgabe, michielbdejong, doerthe, aciortea
15:23:24 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:23:32 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes
15:23:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-schemata-minutes.html Bert
15:25:11 [Gerrit_]
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15:25:13 [minyongli]
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15:25:34 [minyongli]
present+ Minyong_Li
15:26:11 [andres]
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15:26:54 [pchampin]
meeting: "You say Schemata, I say Schemas" - TPAC 2023
15:30:45 [Ege]
the link for the presentation: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iKg0K_tIFdZJ2DBLiHIqjAc5ydo7ifUYYkkkf2Nc_D4/edit?usp=sharing
15:31:20 [mahda-noura]
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15:31:35 [Ege]
q?
15:31:51 [cris_]
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15:34:56 [tgra]
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15:37:32 [ChrisMungall]
TreeLDR looks great, I wasn't aware of it
15:38:05 [cris_]
q?
15:38:35 [cris_]
q+
15:39:03 [Dominik_T]
q+
15:39:17 [Ege]
q?
15:39:53 [ktk]
q+
15:41:41 [dape]
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15:41:48 [dape]
q+
15:42:37 [Ege]
q+ question on governance and release plan/stability
15:43:03 [dezell]
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15:43:11 [dezell]
present+ David_Ezell
15:43:24 [Ege]
ack q
15:43:24 [Zakim]
question, you wanted to comment on governance and release plan/stability
15:43:38 [Ege]
q+ Ege governance and release plan/stability
15:43:51 [sebastian]
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15:46:32 [phila]
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15:46:35 [Ege]
q+ to governance and release plan/stability of treeldr
15:48:04 [Dominik_T]
TreeLDR reminds me a lot of PG-Schema formalism: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2211.10962.pdf
15:49:38 [phila]
q+ to ask about dynamic enumeration
15:49:38 [McCool_]
q+
15:50:09 [Dominik_T]
q-
15:50:14 [Ege]
scribenick: Ege
15:50:37 [doerthe]
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15:50:42 [Ege]
cris: thank you for the presentations. it sounds great and starred it
15:50:47 [doerthe]
present+
15:51:17 [Ege]
... it sounds too good to be true. Can you see limitations for a complicated schema
15:52:04 [cris_]
ack c
15:52:19 [Ege]
cm: We can incorporate such additional expressivity in next releases
15:53:03 [Ege]
th: all the concepts of owl are possible but maybe not everything you can do in json schema can be modeled
15:53:05 [pchampin]
ack ktk
15:53:26 [Ege]
ktk: thank you, treeldr looks interesting. we wanted to do something similar
15:53:43 [Ege]
... we also generated SPARQL queries and also html forms
15:54:31 [Ege]
... we have a chrome based RDF debugger. If you do validation, you do not need a debugger anymore
15:54:51 [Ege]
... you can create ridiculuosly long sparql queries
15:55:20 [Ege]
... in typescript you compile, not runtime data
15:55:31 [Ege]
... do you have a frontend
15:56:20 [Ege]
... can I create from RDF DSL generation?
15:56:25 [Ege]
th: not at the moment
15:56:28 [Ege]
q?
15:56:31 [McCool_]
q?
15:56:36 [Ege]
ack d
15:57:13 [Ege]
dp: I am impressed. How is the stability, are you planning to standardize?
15:57:30 [Ege]
th: we are in early stages
15:57:43 [cris_]
treeLDR: https://github.com/spruceid/treeldr
15:57:54 [McCool_]
ack m
15:57:57 [cris_]
linkml: https://github.com/linkml/linkml
15:58:10 [Ege]
... we can think of standardization but we are not there yet
15:58:21 [Ege]
cm: we have monthly community meetings
15:58:40 [pchampin]
scribe+
15:59:21 [pchampin]
Ege: recently XXX proposed different vocabularies for validation.
15:59:36 [Ege]
... we would be interested to explore how it can be standardized
15:59:38 [pchampin]
... Chris, you mentionned that some things were not possible in JSON-Schema. What did you have in mind?
16:00:17 [pchampin]
ChrisMungall: things like referential integrity are not possible in JSON-Schema. Only a problem if you only use JSON-Schema.
16:00:17 [cris_]
q+
16:00:22 [pchampin]
ack Ege
16:00:23 [Zakim]
Ege, you wanted to governance and release plan/stability of treeldr
16:01:48 [Ege_]
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16:01:48 [Ege_]
scribenick: Ege_
16:01:48 [Ege_]
pa: I did not catch what you said about dynamic XXX?
16:01:48 [Ege_]
... have you solved that?
16:02:19 [Ege_]
cm: I do not know if we fixed that
16:02:19 [phila]
s/pa/phila/
16:02:19 [pchampin]
s/XXX/enumerations
16:02:19 [phila]
s/dynamic xxx/dynamic enumeration. Have you solved that?/
16:02:28 [Ege_]
ca: I have worked with Prisma recently, have you heard of it?
16:02:34 [pchampin]
q?
16:02:37 [pchampin]
ack phila
16:02:37 [Zakim]
phila, you wanted to ask about dynamic enumeration
16:02:50 [pchampin]
ack chris_
16:02:59 [Ege_]
ca: it is common in Node.js runtime workers since it works well with react etc.
16:03:04 [phila]
ack cris_
16:03:25 [McCool_]
q+
16:03:36 [cris_]
prisma: https://www.prisma.io/
16:03:39 [pchampin]
ack McCool_
16:04:11 [Ege_]
mm: wot uses schema to validate td but also for describing payload
16:04:30 [Ege_]
... what is a good place for linkml, can you use it in embedded devices
16:04:31 [pchampin]
q+
16:05:01 [Ege_]
cm: I do not know about iot but generally it is used with DBs (mongodb etc.)
16:05:30 [Ege_]
mm: we do different levels of correctness checking in wot
16:06:01 [phila]
q+ to talk about profiles
16:06:11 [Ege_]
cm: some languages also have warnings/recommendation so that can be picked up by linters
16:06:35 [Ege_]
cm: you can also have profiles
16:06:50 [Ege_]
pc: interested about profiles
16:07:08 [Ege_]
pc: what are your thoughts on the motivation I have put in the beginning
16:07:32 [Ege_]
... cardinality etc.
16:07:42 [Ege_]
th: layouts would be the solution
16:08:57 [Ege_]
cm: it is a closed model. I would not recommend for open applications
16:09:16 [pchampin]
q?
16:09:21 [pchampin]
ack pchampin
16:09:24 [pchampin]
ack phila
16:09:24 [Zakim]
phila, you wanted to talk about profiles
16:09:46 [McCool_]
not sure will have time... but what about RDF-star?
16:09:47 [Ege_]
pa: I want to pick up on profiles. Profile negotation is an old thing but it getting picked up again
16:10:00 [Ege_]
... asking for json ld but using that shacl file
16:10:02 [pchampin]
s/pa:/phila:
16:10:38 [pchampin]
q?
16:10:38 [phila]
https://www.w3.org/2022/06/dx-wg-charter.html
16:10:40 [Ege_]
... it would be good to check with data exchange wg
16:11:10 [Ege_]
pc: topic of standardization has been raised
16:11:46 [Ege_]
... we can think of a cg
16:11:51 [glomb]
+1
16:11:57 [dezell]
+1
16:11:57 [aciortea]
+1
16:11:58 [ChrisMungall]
+1
16:11:58 [ktk]
q+
16:11:59 [Dominik_T]
+1
16:11:59 [cris_]
+1
16:12:00 [ktk]
0
16:12:01 [Bert]
0
16:12:06 [pchampin]
STRAWPALL: should we create a CG on this topic
16:12:06 [mahda-noura]
+1
16:12:07 [Ege_]
+1
16:12:14 [Ege_]
q+
16:12:15 [McCool_]
+1
16:12:25 [Dominik_T]
+1
16:13:06 [Ege_]
pc: we can make a proposal for a cg based on the description of this proposal
16:14:12 [Ege_]
... staff should not make it but we can exchange after the session
16:14:21 [pchampin]
q?
16:14:41 [pchampin]
ack ktk
16:15:34 [Ege_]
ktk: tooling wins in the end with such things
16:15:34 [Ege_]
pc: we can use it for idea exchange
16:15:34 [pchampin]
scribe+
16:15:50 [pchampin]
Ege_: would that fit into an existing group as well?
16:16:27 [pchampin]
q?
16:16:31 [Ege_]
pc: we should check
16:16:33 [Ege_]
ack e
16:16:41 [minyongli]
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16:16:47 [Ege_]
... and maybe meet in a new group next time
16:17:07 [pchampin]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:17:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-schemata-minutes.html pchampin
16:24:17 [pchampin]
zakim, bye
16:24:18 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Bert, Dingwei, atai, Ege, AaronCoburn, Dominik_T, dape, ethieblin, pchampin, Cristiano_Aguzzi, LaurensDebackere, phila,
16:24:18 [Zakim]
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16:24:20 [Zakim]
... decentralgabe, michielbdejong, doerthe, aciortea, glomb, ktk, Minyong_Li, David_Ezell
16:24:26 [pchampin]
RRSAgent, bye
16:24:26 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items