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06:29:00 <tidoust> RRSAgent, do not leave
06:29:00 <tidoust> RRSAgent, make logs public
06:29:01 <tidoust> Meeting: "You say Schemata, I say Schemas"
06:29:01 <tidoust> Chair: Pierre-Antoine Champin, Ege Korkan
06:29:01 <tidoust> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/8
06:29:01 <tidoust> clear agenda
06:29:03 <tidoust> agenda+ Pick a scribe
06:29:05 <tidoust> agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
06:29:07 <tidoust> agenda+ Goal of this session
06:29:09 <tidoust> agenda+ Discussion
06:29:11 <tidoust> agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
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15:20:38 <glomb> present+
15:20:42 <Bert> meeting: "You say Schemata, I say Schemas"
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15:22:22 <ChrisMungall> What @pierre is saying resonates with me, I love OWL, but I frequently see it mis-used for describing data and not the world
15:23:01 <Bert> present+ Bert, Dingwei, atai, Ege, AaronCoburn, Dominik_T, pchampin, dape, ethieblin, Cristiano_Aguzzi, LaurensDebackere, phila, ktk, decentralgabe, michielbdejong, doerthe, aciortea
15:23:24 <Bert> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:23:32 <Bert> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:23:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-schemata-minutes.html Bert
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15:25:34 <minyongli> present+ Minyong_Li
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15:26:54 <pchampin> meeting: "You say Schemata, I say Schemas" - TPAC 2023
15:30:45 <Ege> the link for the presentation: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iKg0K_tIFdZJ2DBLiHIqjAc5ydo7ifUYYkkkf2Nc_D4/edit?usp=sharing
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15:31:35 <Ege> q?
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15:37:32 <ChrisMungall> TreeLDR looks great, I wasn't aware of it
15:38:05 <cris_> q?
15:38:35 <cris_> q+
15:39:03 <Dominik_T> q+
15:39:17 <Ege> q?
15:39:53 <ktk> q+
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15:41:48 <dape> q+
15:42:37 <Ege> q+ question on governance and release plan/stability
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15:43:11 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
15:43:24 <Ege> ack q
15:43:24 <Zakim> question, you wanted to comment on governance and release plan/stability
15:43:38 <Ege> q+ Ege governance and release plan/stability
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15:46:35 <Ege> q+ to governance and release plan/stability of treeldr
15:48:04 <Dominik_T> TreeLDR reminds me a lot of PG-Schema formalism: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2211.10962.pdf
15:49:38 <phila> q+ to ask about dynamic enumeration
15:49:38 <McCool_> q+
15:50:09 <Dominik_T> q-
15:50:14 <Ege> scribenick: Ege
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15:50:42 <Ege> cris: thank you for the presentations. it sounds great and starred it
15:50:47 <doerthe> present+
15:51:17 <Ege> ... it sounds too good to be true. Can you see limitations for a complicated schema
15:52:04 <cris_> ack c
15:52:19 <Ege> cm: We can incorporate such additional expressivity in next releases
15:53:03 <Ege> th: all the concepts of owl are possible but maybe not everything you can do in json schema can be modeled
15:53:05 <pchampin> ack ktk
15:53:26 <Ege> ktk: thank you, treeldr looks interesting. we wanted to do something similar
15:53:43 <Ege> ... we also generated SPARQL queries and also html forms
15:54:31 <Ege> ... we have a chrome based RDF debugger. If you do validation, you do not need a debugger anymore
15:54:51 <Ege> ... you can create ridiculuosly long sparql queries
15:55:20 <Ege> ... in typescript you compile, not runtime data
15:55:31 <Ege> ... do you have a frontend
15:56:20 <Ege> ... can I create from RDF DSL generation?
15:56:25 <Ege> th: not at the moment
15:56:28 <Ege> q?
15:56:31 <McCool_> q?
15:56:36 <Ege> ack d
15:57:13 <Ege> dp: I am impressed. How is the stability, are you planning to standardize?
15:57:30 <Ege> th: we are in early stages
15:57:43 <cris_> treeLDR: https://github.com/spruceid/treeldr
15:57:54 <McCool_> ack m
15:57:57 <cris_> linkml: https://github.com/linkml/linkml
15:58:10 <Ege> ... we can think of standardization but we are not there yet
15:58:21 <Ege> cm: we have monthly community meetings
15:58:40 <pchampin> scribe+
15:59:21 <pchampin> Ege: recently XXX proposed different vocabularies for validation.
15:59:36 <Ege> ... we would be interested to explore how it can be standardized
15:59:38 <pchampin> ... Chris, you mentionned that some things were not possible in JSON-Schema. What did you have in mind?
16:00:17 <pchampin> ChrisMungall: things like referential integrity are not possible in JSON-Schema. Only a problem if you only use JSON-Schema.
16:00:17 <cris_> q+
16:00:22 <pchampin> ack Ege
16:00:23 <Zakim> Ege, you wanted to governance and release plan/stability of treeldr
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16:01:48 <Ege_> scribenick: Ege_
16:01:48 <Ege_> pa: I did not catch what you said about dynamic XXX?
16:01:48 <Ege_> ... have you solved that?
16:02:19 <Ege_> cm: I do not know if we fixed that
16:02:19 <phila> s/pa/phila/
16:02:19 <pchampin> s/XXX/enumerations
16:02:19 <phila> s/dynamic xxx/dynamic enumeration. Have you solved that?/
16:02:28 <Ege_> ca: I have worked with Prisma recently, have you heard of it?
16:02:34 <pchampin> q?
16:02:37 <pchampin> ack phila
16:02:37 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to ask about dynamic enumeration
16:02:50 <pchampin> ack chris_
16:02:59 <Ege_> ca: it is common in Node.js runtime workers since it works well with react etc.
16:03:04 <phila> ack cris_
16:03:25 <McCool_> q+
16:03:36 <cris_> prisma: https://www.prisma.io/
16:03:39 <pchampin> ack McCool_
16:04:11 <Ege_> mm: wot uses schema to validate td but also for describing payload
16:04:30 <Ege_> ... what is a good place for linkml, can you use it in embedded devices
16:04:31 <pchampin> q+
16:05:01 <Ege_> cm: I do not know about iot but generally it is used with DBs (mongodb etc.)
16:05:30 <Ege_> mm: we do different levels of correctness checking in wot
16:06:01 <phila> q+ to talk about profiles
16:06:11 <Ege_> cm: some languages also have warnings/recommendation so that can be picked up by linters
16:06:35 <Ege_> cm: you can also have profiles
16:06:50 <Ege_> pc: interested about profiles
16:07:08 <Ege_> pc: what are your thoughts on the motivation I have put in the beginning
16:07:32 <Ege_> ... cardinality etc.
16:07:42 <Ege_> th: layouts would be the solution
16:08:57 <Ege_> cm: it is a closed model. I would not recommend for open applications
16:09:16 <pchampin> q?
16:09:21 <pchampin> ack pchampin
16:09:24 <pchampin> ack phila
16:09:24 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about profiles
16:09:46 <McCool_> not sure will have time... but what about RDF-star?
16:09:47 <Ege_> pa: I want to pick up on profiles. Profile negotation is an old thing but it getting picked up again
16:10:00 <Ege_> ... asking for json ld but using that shacl file
16:10:02 <pchampin> s/pa:/phila:
16:10:38 <pchampin> q?
16:10:38 <phila> https://www.w3.org/2022/06/dx-wg-charter.html
16:10:40 <Ege_> ... it would be good to check with data exchange wg
16:11:10 <Ege_> pc: topic of standardization has been raised
16:11:46 <Ege_> ... we can think of a cg
16:11:51 <glomb> +1
16:11:57 <dezell> +1
16:11:57 <aciortea> +1
16:11:58 <ChrisMungall> +1
16:11:58 <ktk> q+
16:11:59 <Dominik_T> +1
16:11:59 <cris_> +1
16:12:00 <ktk> 0
16:12:01 <Bert> 0
16:12:06 <pchampin> STRAWPALL: should we create a CG on this topic
16:12:06 <mahda-noura> +1
16:12:07 <Ege_> +1
16:12:14 <Ege_> q+
16:12:15 <McCool_> +1
16:12:25 <Dominik_T> +1
16:13:06 <Ege_> pc: we can make a proposal for a cg based on the description of this proposal
16:14:12 <Ege_> ... staff should not make it but we can exchange after the session
16:14:21 <pchampin> q?
16:14:41 <pchampin> ack ktk
16:15:34 <Ege_> ktk: tooling wins in the end with such things
16:15:34 <Ege_> pc: we can use it for idea exchange
16:15:34 <pchampin> scribe+
16:15:50 <pchampin> Ege_: would that fit into an existing group as well?
16:16:27 <pchampin> q?
16:16:31 <Ege_> pc: we should check
16:16:33 <Ege_> ack e
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16:16:47 <Ege_> ... and maybe meet in a new group next time
16:17:07 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:17:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-schemata-minutes.html pchampin
16:24:17 <pchampin> zakim, bye
16:24:18 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Bert, Dingwei, atai, Ege, AaronCoburn, Dominik_T, dape, ethieblin, pchampin, Cristiano_Aguzzi, LaurensDebackere, phila,
16:24:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #schemata
16:24:20 <Zakim> ... decentralgabe, michielbdejong, doerthe, aciortea, glomb, ktk, Minyong_Li, David_Ezell
16:24:26 <pchampin> RRSAgent, bye
16:24:26 <RRSAgent> I see no action items