IRC log of schemata on 2023-09-13
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 06:28:55 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #schemata
- 06:28:59 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-schemata-irc
- 06:29:00 [tidoust]
- RRSAgent, do not leave
- 06:29:00 [tidoust]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 06:29:01 [tidoust]
- Meeting: "You say Schemata, I say Schemas"
- 06:29:01 [tidoust]
- Chair: Pierre-Antoine Champin, Ege Korkan
- 06:29:01 [tidoust]
- Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/8
- 06:29:01 [tidoust]
- clear agenda
- 06:29:03 [tidoust]
- agenda+ Pick a scribe
- 06:29:05 [tidoust]
- agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
- 06:29:07 [tidoust]
- agenda+ Goal of this session
- 06:29:09 [tidoust]
- agenda+ Discussion
- 06:29:11 [tidoust]
- agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
- 07:20:14 [tidoust]
- tidoust has joined #schemata
- 09:01:00 [tidoust]
- tidoust has joined #schemata
- 12:05:13 [tidoust]
- tidoust has joined #schemata
- 15:20:23 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #schemata
- 15:20:23 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-schemata-irc
- 15:20:33 [glomb]
- glomb has joined #schemata
- 15:20:38 [glomb]
- present+
- 15:20:42 [Bert]
- meeting: "You say Schemata, I say Schemas"
- 15:20:49 [ChrisMungall]
- ChrisMungall has joined #schemata
- 15:20:49 [cfollenf]
- cfollenf has joined #schemata
- 15:22:22 [ChrisMungall]
- What @pierre is saying resonates with me, I love OWL, but I frequently see it mis-used for describing data and not the world
- 15:23:01 [Bert]
- present+ Bert, Dingwei, atai, Ege, AaronCoburn, Dominik_T, pchampin, dape, ethieblin, Cristiano_Aguzzi, LaurensDebackere, phila, ktk, decentralgabe, michielbdejong, doerthe, aciortea
- 15:23:24 [Bert]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 15:23:32 [Bert]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 15:23:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-schemata-minutes.html Bert
- 15:25:11 [Gerrit_]
- Gerrit_ has joined #schemata
- 15:25:13 [minyongli]
- minyongli has joined #schemata
- 15:25:34 [minyongli]
- present+ Minyong_Li
- 15:26:11 [andres]
- andres has joined #schemata
- 15:26:54 [pchampin]
- meeting: "You say Schemata, I say Schemas" - TPAC 2023
- 15:30:45 [Ege]
- the link for the presentation: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iKg0K_tIFdZJ2DBLiHIqjAc5ydo7ifUYYkkkf2Nc_D4/edit?usp=sharing
- 15:31:20 [mahda-noura]
- mahda-noura has joined #schemata
- 15:31:35 [Ege]
- q?
- 15:31:51 [cris_]
- cris_ has joined #schemata
- 15:34:56 [tgra]
- tgra has joined #schemata
- 15:37:32 [ChrisMungall]
- TreeLDR looks great, I wasn't aware of it
- 15:38:05 [cris_]
- q?
- 15:38:35 [cris_]
- q+
- 15:39:03 [Dominik_T]
- q+
- 15:39:17 [Ege]
- q?
- 15:39:53 [ktk]
- q+
- 15:41:41 [dape]
- dape has joined #schemata
- 15:41:48 [dape]
- q+
- 15:42:37 [Ege]
- q+ question on governance and release plan/stability
- 15:43:03 [dezell]
- dezell has joined #schemata
- 15:43:11 [dezell]
- present+ David_Ezell
- 15:43:24 [Ege]
- ack q
- 15:43:24 [Zakim]
- question, you wanted to comment on governance and release plan/stability
- 15:43:38 [Ege]
- q+ Ege governance and release plan/stability
- 15:43:51 [sebastian]
- sebastian has joined #schemata
- 15:46:32 [phila]
- phila has joined #schemata
- 15:46:35 [Ege]
- q+ to governance and release plan/stability of treeldr
- 15:48:04 [Dominik_T]
- TreeLDR reminds me a lot of PG-Schema formalism: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2211.10962.pdf
- 15:49:38 [phila]
- q+ to ask about dynamic enumeration
- 15:49:38 [McCool_]
- q+
- 15:50:09 [Dominik_T]
- q-
- 15:50:14 [Ege]
- scribenick: Ege
- 15:50:37 [doerthe]
- doerthe has joined #schemata
- 15:50:42 [Ege]
- cris: thank you for the presentations. it sounds great and starred it
- 15:50:47 [doerthe]
- present+
- 15:51:17 [Ege]
- ... it sounds too good to be true. Can you see limitations for a complicated schema
- 15:52:04 [cris_]
- ack c
- 15:52:19 [Ege]
- cm: We can incorporate such additional expressivity in next releases
- 15:53:03 [Ege]
- th: all the concepts of owl are possible but maybe not everything you can do in json schema can be modeled
- 15:53:05 [pchampin]
- ack ktk
- 15:53:26 [Ege]
- ktk: thank you, treeldr looks interesting. we wanted to do something similar
- 15:53:43 [Ege]
- ... we also generated SPARQL queries and also html forms
- 15:54:31 [Ege]
- ... we have a chrome based RDF debugger. If you do validation, you do not need a debugger anymore
- 15:54:51 [Ege]
- ... you can create ridiculuosly long sparql queries
- 15:55:20 [Ege]
- ... in typescript you compile, not runtime data
- 15:55:31 [Ege]
- ... do you have a frontend
- 15:56:20 [Ege]
- ... can I create from RDF DSL generation?
- 15:56:25 [Ege]
- th: not at the moment
- 15:56:28 [Ege]
- q?
- 15:56:31 [McCool_]
- q?
- 15:56:36 [Ege]
- ack d
- 15:57:13 [Ege]
- dp: I am impressed. How is the stability, are you planning to standardize?
- 15:57:30 [Ege]
- th: we are in early stages
- 15:57:43 [cris_]
- treeLDR: https://github.com/spruceid/treeldr
- 15:57:54 [McCool_]
- ack m
- 15:57:57 [cris_]
- linkml: https://github.com/linkml/linkml
- 15:58:10 [Ege]
- ... we can think of standardization but we are not there yet
- 15:58:21 [Ege]
- cm: we have monthly community meetings
- 15:58:40 [pchampin]
- scribe+
- 15:59:21 [pchampin]
- Ege: recently XXX proposed different vocabularies for validation.
- 15:59:36 [Ege]
- ... we would be interested to explore how it can be standardized
- 15:59:38 [pchampin]
- ... Chris, you mentionned that some things were not possible in JSON-Schema. What did you have in mind?
- 16:00:17 [pchampin]
- ChrisMungall: things like referential integrity are not possible in JSON-Schema. Only a problem if you only use JSON-Schema.
- 16:00:17 [cris_]
- q+
- 16:00:22 [pchampin]
- ack Ege
- 16:00:23 [Zakim]
- Ege, you wanted to governance and release plan/stability of treeldr
- 16:01:48 [Ege_]
- Ege_ has joined #schemata
- 16:01:48 [Ege_]
- scribenick: Ege_
- 16:01:48 [Ege_]
- pa: I did not catch what you said about dynamic XXX?
- 16:01:48 [Ege_]
- ... have you solved that?
- 16:02:19 [Ege_]
- cm: I do not know if we fixed that
- 16:02:19 [phila]
- s/pa/phila/
- 16:02:19 [pchampin]
- s/XXX/enumerations
- 16:02:19 [phila]
- s/dynamic xxx/dynamic enumeration. Have you solved that?/
- 16:02:28 [Ege_]
- ca: I have worked with Prisma recently, have you heard of it?
- 16:02:34 [pchampin]
- q?
- 16:02:37 [pchampin]
- ack phila
- 16:02:37 [Zakim]
- phila, you wanted to ask about dynamic enumeration
- 16:02:50 [pchampin]
- ack chris_
- 16:02:59 [Ege_]
- ca: it is common in Node.js runtime workers since it works well with react etc.
- 16:03:04 [phila]
- ack cris_
- 16:03:25 [McCool_]
- q+
- 16:03:36 [cris_]
- prisma: https://www.prisma.io/
- 16:03:39 [pchampin]
- ack McCool_
- 16:04:11 [Ege_]
- mm: wot uses schema to validate td but also for describing payload
- 16:04:30 [Ege_]
- ... what is a good place for linkml, can you use it in embedded devices
- 16:04:31 [pchampin]
- q+
- 16:05:01 [Ege_]
- cm: I do not know about iot but generally it is used with DBs (mongodb etc.)
- 16:05:30 [Ege_]
- mm: we do different levels of correctness checking in wot
- 16:06:01 [phila]
- q+ to talk about profiles
- 16:06:11 [Ege_]
- cm: some languages also have warnings/recommendation so that can be picked up by linters
- 16:06:35 [Ege_]
- cm: you can also have profiles
- 16:06:50 [Ege_]
- pc: interested about profiles
- 16:07:08 [Ege_]
- pc: what are your thoughts on the motivation I have put in the beginning
- 16:07:32 [Ege_]
- ... cardinality etc.
- 16:07:42 [Ege_]
- th: layouts would be the solution
- 16:08:57 [Ege_]
- cm: it is a closed model. I would not recommend for open applications
- 16:09:16 [pchampin]
- q?
- 16:09:21 [pchampin]
- ack pchampin
- 16:09:24 [pchampin]
- ack phila
- 16:09:24 [Zakim]
- phila, you wanted to talk about profiles
- 16:09:46 [McCool_]
- not sure will have time... but what about RDF-star?
- 16:09:47 [Ege_]
- pa: I want to pick up on profiles. Profile negotation is an old thing but it getting picked up again
- 16:10:00 [Ege_]
- ... asking for json ld but using that shacl file
- 16:10:02 [pchampin]
- s/pa:/phila:
- 16:10:38 [pchampin]
- q?
- 16:10:38 [phila]
- https://www.w3.org/2022/06/dx-wg-charter.html
- 16:10:40 [Ege_]
- ... it would be good to check with data exchange wg
- 16:11:10 [Ege_]
- pc: topic of standardization has been raised
- 16:11:46 [Ege_]
- ... we can think of a cg
- 16:11:51 [glomb]
- +1
- 16:11:57 [dezell]
- +1
- 16:11:57 [aciortea]
- +1
- 16:11:58 [ChrisMungall]
- +1
- 16:11:58 [ktk]
- q+
- 16:11:59 [Dominik_T]
- +1
- 16:11:59 [cris_]
- +1
- 16:12:00 [ktk]
- 0
- 16:12:01 [Bert]
- 0
- 16:12:06 [pchampin]
- STRAWPALL: should we create a CG on this topic
- 16:12:06 [mahda-noura]
- +1
- 16:12:07 [Ege_]
- +1
- 16:12:14 [Ege_]
- q+
- 16:12:15 [McCool_]
- +1
- 16:12:25 [Dominik_T]
- +1
- 16:13:06 [Ege_]
- pc: we can make a proposal for a cg based on the description of this proposal
- 16:14:12 [Ege_]
- ... staff should not make it but we can exchange after the session
- 16:14:21 [pchampin]
- q?
- 16:14:41 [pchampin]
- ack ktk
- 16:15:34 [Ege_]
- ktk: tooling wins in the end with such things
- 16:15:34 [Ege_]
- pc: we can use it for idea exchange
- 16:15:34 [pchampin]
- scribe+
- 16:15:50 [pchampin]
- Ege_: would that fit into an existing group as well?
- 16:16:27 [pchampin]
- q?
- 16:16:31 [Ege_]
- pc: we should check
- 16:16:33 [Ege_]
- ack e
- 16:16:41 [minyongli]
- minyongli has left #schemata
- 16:16:47 [Ege_]
- ... and maybe meet in a new group next time
- 16:17:07 [pchampin]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 16:17:08 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-schemata-minutes.html pchampin
- 16:24:17 [pchampin]
- zakim, bye
- 16:24:18 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Bert, Dingwei, atai, Ege, AaronCoburn, Dominik_T, dape, ethieblin, pchampin, Cristiano_Aguzzi, LaurensDebackere, phila,
- 16:24:18 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #schemata
- 16:24:20 [Zakim]
- ... decentralgabe, michielbdejong, doerthe, aciortea, glomb, ktk, Minyong_Li, David_Ezell
- 16:24:26 [pchampin]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 16:24:26 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items