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06:34:07 <tidoust> RRSAgent, make logs public
06:34:09 <tidoust> Meeting: Feel the Vibe: enhancing haptics for accessibility and more fun
06:34:09 <tidoust> Chair: qqharryhwang, Selen Xu
06:34:10 <tidoust> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/19
06:34:12 <tidoust> Slideset: https://www.w3.org/2023/07/breakout_haptics_TPAC/haptics.pdf
06:34:14 <tidoust> clear agenda
06:34:16 <tidoust> agenda+ Pick a scribe
06:34:20 <tidoust> agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
06:34:22 <tidoust> agenda+ Goal of this session
06:34:25 <tidoust> agenda+ Discussion
06:34:26 <tidoust> agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
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09:19:10 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
09:19:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-haptics-minutes.html Roy
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13:34:28 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-haptics-irc
13:34:38 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:34:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-haptics-minutes.html Roy
13:34:56 <Roy> agenda?
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13:41:42 <Roy> scribe: Roy
13:42:31 <Roy> [slide 1]
13:42:39 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:42:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-haptics-minutes.html Roy
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13:56:16 <xfq> present+ angel_, Roy, xiaoqian, xfq
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13:58:31 <xfq> present+ Selen_Xu
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13:59:22 <wendyreid> present+
13:59:22 <xfq> present+ Harry_Wang
13:59:26 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
13:59:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-haptics-minutes.html xfq
13:59:31 <mattreynolds> present+
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14:01:21 <Roy> [round table introduction]
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14:05:42 <cabanier> present+
14:06:15 <Roy> harry: welcome to haptics for accessibility session
14:07:01 <Roy> ... emails available for further discussion
14:07:18 <Roy> [slide 2]
14:07:23 <xiaoqian> slides -> https://www.w3.org/2023/07/breakout_haptics_TPAC/haptics.pdf
14:07:35 <Roy> harry: go through ToC
14:08:06 <Roy> [slide 3]
14:08:13 <Roy> harry: introduction of Tencent Game team
14:08:13 <angel_> present+
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14:08:36 <CharlesL> present+
14:08:46 <Roy> [slide 5]
14:09:00 <Roy> harry: background of haptics
14:09:16 <Roy> ... Haptics amend human machine interaction
14:10:01 <Roy> [slide 6]
14:10:39 <Roy> harry: Haptics Taxonomy
14:11:46 <Roy> [slide 7]
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14:13:32 <Roy> [slide 8]
14:15:01 <Roy> [slide 9]
14:15:44 <Roy> Harry: here are some reasons worth mentioning to improve usability and accessibility
14:16:29 <Roy> [slide 11]
14:17:32 <Roy> [slide 12]
14:18:23 <Roy> [slide 13]
14:18:28 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:18:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-haptics-minutes.html Roy
14:19:11 <Roy> [show how to start designing a Haptic Effect]
14:19:44 <Roy> [slide 14]
14:20:38 <Roy> Selen: Versatility and flexibility are the core design concepts throughout the entire solution
14:21:22 <Roy> [slide 18]
14:22:04 <Roy> Selen: show how to implement haptics with their SCK
14:22:10 <Roy> s/SCK/SDK
14:23:36 <Roy> [slide 19]
14:23:45 <Roy> Selen: MTGPA Haptics .HE Format shows in picture
14:24:21 <Roy> ... data format is also compiled with IEEE standard
14:25:09 <Roy> [slide 15]
14:25:13 <Roy> [slide 16]
14:25:17 <Roy> Selen: Sync to Audio and Video Design
14:25:39 <Roy> ... designed 2 solutions
14:25:56 <Roy> ... Vibration playback mechanism and Vibration Synchronization Scheme
14:26:12 <Roy> [slide 17]
14:26:49 <Roy> Selen: Haptics has implemented in Games
14:27:21 <Roy> [slide 21]
14:27:53 <Roy> Selen: background of users, and haptics can help visually impaired users to gain more information and understanding.
14:28:10 <Roy> [slide 22]
14:29:02 <Roy> Selen: use cases include: chat, news, videos etc.,
14:29:02 <xfq> present+ chunming
14:29:22 <Roy> [slide 24]
14:29:43 <Roy> Selen: Haptics solution for input method
14:30:02 <Roy> [slide 25]
14:30:10 <Roy> Solution for maps
14:30:30 <Roy> [slide 26]
14:30:48 <Roy> Selen: Promote Haptics as a Common Human Language
14:31:10 <Roy> ... Integration with Web contents, support by Web platform, adoption in Accessibility guideline
14:32:27 <Roy> ... harry will introduction standardized about haptics
14:32:47 <Roy> [slide 28]
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14:35:05 <Roy> harry: the fragmentation will cause a compatibility issues, there are several advantages to standard haptics, since we improve the usability
14:35:24 <Roy> [slide 29]
14:35:48 <Roy> [slide 30]
14:36:09 <Roy> harry: haptics stack show in slide
14:36:56 <Roy> ... some standardization work has start in different org
14:37:56 <Roy> ... including: ISO MPEG-I, IETF Haptics Media,  IEEE P2861.3/Haptics Industry Forum etc
14:38:05 <Roy> [slide 31]
14:38:23 <Roy> [slide 32]
14:38:47 <Roy> harry: Haptic Data Model in MPEG
14:39:28 <Roy> ... 3 types format
14:39:37 <Roy> ... depend on situation
14:39:48 <Roy> [slide 33]
14:40:08 <Roy> harry: Haptic File Format
14:40:18 <Roy> ... 3 types format
14:40:27 <Roy> [slide 34]
14:40:42 <Roy> harry: introduction of encode and decode
14:41:09 <Roy> ... 2 types of input and 3 types of output
14:41:24 <Roy> [slide 35]
14:41:57 <Roy> Harry: IEEE P2861.3 Haptic Enhancement for Mobile Game, for mobile haptics platform: interface, data, evaluation
14:42:59 <Roy> angel: suggest to jump into your proposal
14:43:13 <Roy> Harry: sure
14:43:19 <Roy> [slide 39]
14:43:38 <Roy> harry: Some Thoughts on W3C Vibration API
14:44:06 <Roy> ... doesn't support sophisticated haptic wave forms
14:44:39 <Roy> ... doesn't support precision haptics
14:44:55 <Roy> [slide 40]
14:45:13 <Roy> harry: Some Thoughts on W3C Gamepad Extension API
14:45:28 <mattreynolds> +q
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14:46:23 <Roy> ... show possible amendment for W3C standard
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14:46:46 <Roy> [slide 42]
14:47:04 <Roy> harry: examples
14:47:20 <Roy> [slide 43]
14:47:29 <angel_> q?
14:47:34 <Roy> harry: some takeaway
14:48:20 <Roy> ... raise some questions
14:48:36 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:48:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-haptics-minutes.html Roy
14:50:16 <Roy> ack mattreynolds
14:50:16 <angel_> ack matt
14:50:25 <Roy> mattreynolds: I edit that API, and implement into Chromium
14:50:43 <Roy> ... I can give you more context here
14:50:47 <cabanier> q+
14:51:16 <Roy> ... basically decided that is going to be delegated to legacy device support
14:51:56 <Roy> ... planning on adding new effects to interface
14:52:02 <Roy> ... still a lot of work to do
14:52:21 <Roy> harry: are you consider a new API for that?
14:52:46 <Roy> mattreynolds: yes,  MS is working on an update to explainer
14:53:31 <Roy> ... can't tell you exactly last I heard
14:53:31 <angel_> q?
14:53:32 <xfq> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/HapticsDevice/explainer.md
14:53:54 <Roy> ... also we want this work for service too, and with more devices
14:55:06 <angel_> ack cab
14:55:06 <Roy> ... I don't think we are going to tie specific to USB
14:55:19 <Roy> cabanier: good to see this going
14:55:51 <Roy> ... we have an applications to create waveforms
14:56:42 <Roy> Harry: I assume also support openXR APIs?
14:57:03 <Roy> cabanier: yes
14:57:37 <Roy> harry: there are also some XR work in W3C, how you promote those in two groups
14:57:38 <chunming> q+
14:57:47 <angel_> ack chunm
14:57:53 <Roy> cabanier: @@
14:58:21 <mattreynolds> q+
14:58:34 <Roy> chunming: does haptics consider feedback from user?
14:59:06 <Roy> harry: no guidelines to say that, we also confused.
14:59:32 <Roy> ... now way to determine
15:00:09 <Roy> ... if we define haptics as human language, I think we should work on guidelines and rules
15:00:35 <xiaoqian> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:00:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-haptics-minutes.html xiaoqian
15:01:33 <Roy> Matio: maybe could be possible to make some simplified font of device, to create feedback
15:02:05 <Roy> ... not only to accept some but by some movements to create
15:02:29 <cabanier> q+
15:02:43 <Roy> PHANTOM
15:03:07 <chunming> q?
15:03:08 <angel_> ack mattr
15:03:08 <xfq> Phantom from 3D Systems
15:03:11 <Roy> mattreynolds: last slide open questions
15:04:03 <Roy> ... 1 is the easy one to implement, we can cross the system API
15:04:34 <Roy> ... 2 yes, to across the device
15:05:48 <Roy> ... I think we have decided that it would be good to have active waveforms associated with haptic effects so that we could do the down sampling to support on plus or take full devices as well as the more modern devices.
15:06:31 <Roy> ... 3 Probably didn't able to have things to extensive use case, especially for accessibility. I don't really have a good sense of that.
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15:07:13 <Roy> ... I think the rest of the room should provide feedback on that. And should there be a guideline for I think a guideline would be good, but probably should not be part of the specification.
15:07:20 <Roy> ... @@1
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15:07:42 <angel_> q?
15:07:48 <angel_> ack cab
15:08:06 <Roy> cabanier: earlier question, controller can provide feedback
15:08:33 <Roy> ... like 3 or 4 pressure sensitive sensors on there
15:09:03 <Roy> ... use that develop can decide how to interactive
15:09:28 <Roy> Harry: in conclusion what is proper way to move this forward
15:10:22 <Roy> mattreynolds: little frustrating for us, by now we have a venue to discuss, we need to encourage MS to ring that proposal to a CG
15:10:39 <Roy> ... no CG yet
15:11:01 <Roy> angel_: what about incubate in WICG?
15:11:29 <Roy> mattreynolds: not sure, sounds like a path
15:11:36 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:11:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/13-haptics-minutes.html Roy
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16:21:16 <tidoust> zakim, bye
16:21:16 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been angel_, Roy, xiaoqian, xfq, Selen_Xu, wendyreid, Harry_Wang, mattreynolds, cabanier, CharlesL, chunming
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16:21:21 <tidoust> RRSAgent, bye
16:21:30 <tidoust> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:21:42 <tidoust> RRSAgent, bye
16:21:42 <RRSAgent> I see no action items