13:44:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ag
13:44:15 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/11-ag-irc
13:44:15 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:44:16 <Zakim> Meeting: AGWG Teleconference
13:44:19 <Chuck_> chair:  Chuck
13:44:36 <Chuck_> meeting: AGWG-TPAC-Group-2023-09-11
13:44:39 <AWK> Ben: one thing we should add is if there is some sort of menu that structure should be added
13:44:39 <laura> present+ Laura_Carlson
13:44:45 <mattg> mattg has joined #ag
13:44:46 <Chuck_> rrsagent, generate minutes
13:44:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/11-ag-minutes.html Chuck_
13:44:55 <Chuck_> q?
13:44:55 <AWK> +AWK
13:45:26 <Chuck_> q?
13:45:26 <AWK> Zakim, who is here?
13:45:26 <Zakim> Present: Laura_Carlson, AWK
13:45:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see mattg, RRSAgent, Zakim, JohnRochford, daniel-montalvo, lisa, mitch11_, DanielHE_, atomasevich, Jaunita_, Wilco, AWK, laura, Chuck_, Francis_Storr, Ben_Tillyer,
13:45:26 <Zakim> ... Lauriat, Jennie, jon_avila, Jem, tzviya, jeanne, wendyreid, kirkwood, jamesn, \join_subline, ljoakley, ShawnT, thinkbulecount2, jedi, Mike5Matrix, MikoajRotnicki, sdd,
13:45:26 <mattg> present+
13:45:26 <Zakim> ... MojGraph, imlostlmao, gonzu_15, boneslady, Rachael, kevin, ChrisLoiselle, alastairc, bwang, cwilso, plh, jcraig, dmontalvo
13:45:26 <AWK> q+
13:45:26 <Jaunita_> Present+
13:45:26 <AWK> ack a
13:46:30 <mitch11_> present+
13:46:30 <Ben_Tillyer> present+
13:46:30 <Rachael> present+
13:46:30 <ShawnT> present+
13:46:30 <Wilco> present+
13:46:30 <Jennie> present+
13:46:30 <Chuck_> present+
13:46:30 <DanielHE_> present+
13:46:30 <alastairc> present+
13:46:30 <JohnRochford> present+
13:46:30 <Francis_Storr> present+
13:46:30 <Lauriat> Present+
13:46:30 <jeanne> present+
13:46:30 <lisa> present+
13:46:30 <AWK> q?
13:47:04 <mbgower_> mbgower_ has joined #ag
13:47:04 <AWK> q?
13:47:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick_H_Lauke has joined #ag
13:47:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
13:47:04 <Chuck_> User processes do not increase cognitive load
13:47:04 <AWK> RM: Our subgroup was xxxx
13:47:11 <Chuck_> TOPIC:  User processes do not increase cognitive load subgroup update
13:47:20 <AWK> ... looking at personalization to help with user needs
13:48:04 <mbgower_> present+
13:48:04 <AWK> s/xxxx/User processes do not increase cognitive load
13:48:16 <maryjom> maryjom has joined #ag
13:48:24 <maryjom> present+
13:48:25 <AWK> RM: We were looking at an expansion of accessible authentication
13:48:40 <Chuck_> Chuck_ has changed the topic to: User processes do not increase cognitive load subgroup update
13:48:46 <AWK> ... also how to recover from avoiding mistakes, avoid distractions, etc
13:49:38 <AWK> ... q-
13:49:38 <shadi> shadi has joined #ag
13:49:38 <AWK> s/... q-/
13:49:38 <AWK> q-
13:50:20 <AWK> RM: lots of research needed for different areas
13:50:23 <AWK> ... internationalized research
13:51:10 <AWK> ... discussed needing  users to be able to go back to a previous UI design
13:51:56 <AWK> ... conversation around providing instructions for complex processes in text + at least one other way
13:53:20 <AWK> ... research discussed about videos longer than 5 min needing chapters
13:54:20 <AWK> ... discussed cognitive tests
13:54:33 <alastairc> q+ on using cognitive tests more generally
13:55:44 <AWK> ack ala
13:55:44 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to comment on using cognitive tests more generally
13:55:45 <Chuck_> ack ala
13:56:21 <AWK> AC: We will need to tweak the cognitive tests in order to use more generally
13:56:26 <Rachael> q+
13:56:30 <Chuck_> ack Rach
13:56:42 <AWK> RM: The thinking was to not lock ppl out
13:56:47 <Patrick__> Patrick__ has joined #ag
13:57:05 <mitch11_> q+
13:57:10 <Chuck_> ack mitch
13:57:11 <AWK> ack m
13:57:24 <AWK> ME: Thought of another resource
13:58:15 <AWK> ... Germany goes beyond 2.1 AA and there are professionals there that we may want to talk with
13:58:27 <Chuck_> q+
13:58:30 <Chuck_> ack Ch
13:58:37 <AWK> CA: Any comments on how the subgroups operated - good/bad?
13:58:38 <Ben_Tillyer> Ben_Tillyer has joined #ag
13:59:03 <Patrick__> q+
13:59:09 <Chuck_> ack Patrick
13:59:20 <AWK> PL: on the structure group
13:59:37 <AWK> ... we had a lot of fundmental discussions
14:00:19 <alastairc> q+
14:00:39 <AWK> ... discussing when things are lists or headings as distinct from what happens when things are
14:00:41 <Wilco> q+
14:00:41 <Chuck_> ack ala
14:00:51 <Patrick__> q-
14:00:51 <AWK> Ack a
14:01:01 <AWK> AC: there wasn't much research
14:01:31 <AWK> ... related to the nature of 1.3.1 content area. Lots of WCAG-referring references.
14:01:41 <Chuck_> ack Wilco
14:01:43 <AWK> ... we moved past research quickly
14:01:46 <AWK> ack w
14:02:02 <Jaunita_> Jaunita_ has joined #Ag
14:02:08 <AWK> WF: Feel like 1.3.1 is a huge topic and needs more time
14:02:08 <Chuck_> q?
14:02:17 <Patrick__> agree with Wilco. "structure" is a large and fundamental topic that it felt too big to tackle
14:02:28 <Rachael> q+ timing and lunch
14:02:31 <Jaunita__> Jaunita__ has joined #Ag
14:02:31 <AWK> CA: How well were you able to keep pace?
14:02:34 <Jaunita__> Present+
14:02:35 <Jaunita__> Q+
14:02:38 <Chuck_> ack rach
14:03:01 <AWK> RM: lunch was longer for in-person PPL
14:03:26 <Chuck_> ack Jau
14:04:07 <AWK> Juanita: Lots of research. We should find more still
14:04:29 <Chuck_> q?
14:04:40 <AWK> ... process went well overall
14:04:47 <AWK> CA: Lesson learned?
14:04:55 <Jaunita__> Q+
14:04:56 <alastairc> q+
14:05:00 <Chuck_> ack Jau
14:05:02 <Rachael> q+
14:05:18 <Ben_Tillyer_> Ben_Tillyer_ has joined #ag
14:05:18 <AWK> Juanita: When writing user needs should they be technology-agnostic?
14:05:39 <Chuck_> ack ala
14:05:41 <Patrick__> q+
14:06:30 <lisa> q+
14:06:30 <AWK> AC: people were saying that structured content is very wide and we could spend a LOT more time with it
14:06:39 <Chuck_> q+ to ask if that means adding a column
14:06:41 <Chuck_> ack Rach
14:07:09 <Chuck_> ack Ch
14:07:09 <Zakim> Chuck_, you wanted to ask if that means adding a column
14:07:10 <AWK> ..RM: Tried using a table during editing also
14:07:28 <AWK> ss/..RM:/... RM:
14:07:51 <Chuck_> ack Patrick
14:08:08 <AWK> RM: We should make an effort to stay high-level rather than get too deep too soon
14:08:31 <Rachael> +1 to avoiding being tempted to fit this into WCAG 2. We ran into that too
14:08:34 <AWK> PL: Very hard to not drive to get to the specific outcomes too soon
14:08:50 <Rachael> Capture the deep questions and move on to keep going. :)
14:09:14 <Chuck_> q?
14:09:16 <Chuck_> ack Lisa
14:09:19 <lisa> metal health review https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eKNrofGubnpQE6mO-vxmI-1MW5nA2LDj0LxebREPRGA/edit?resourcekey#gid=1686096268  analisis between new and already in content useable: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K4tI9SV4lsDXzCdaEAXExeL3f061__Sy06lfGV9mLvY/edit#heading=h.qn1vctt0b01p
14:09:30 <AWK> Lisa: put two links into IRC above
14:09:40 <AWK> ... did review of research
14:10:42 <Wilco_> Wilco_ has joined #ag
14:11:05 <AWK> ... it would be interesting to centralize how the different task forces and subgroups handle research
14:11:21 <AWK> ... looking to streamline the research
14:11:35 <Chuck_> q?
14:11:56 <AWK> CA: Sneak peek of what is coming
14:12:20 <AWK> ... two new subgroups
14:12:31 <AWK> ... "text uses appropriate layout and semantics"
14:12:34 <lisa> also note jennie and shawns work at https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1RUiKsY_WUaFJFvdR6ezFJ8Jx35JkHssy
14:12:46 <AWK> ... other is "user flexible"
14:13:11 <Wilco_> q+
14:13:24 <AWK> CA: How is it over there? Inquiring minds want to know
14:13:25 <Chuck_> ack Wilco
14:13:42 <AWK> WF: (sarcastically) Terrible
14:14:19 <AWK> CA: Moving to a new 15 minute break
14:15:35 <Jaunita__> Can you send the schedule?
14:16:17 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/TPAC_2023_Schedule#Monday_11_September_23_.28Meeting_Information.29
14:16:55 <Jaunita__> Thank you!!
14:17:10 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
14:17:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/11-ag-minutes.html laura
14:18:43 <mbgower_> q+
14:19:09 <daniel-montalvo> daniel-montalvo has joined #ag
14:19:12 <mbgower_> q+ to say are we supposed to click "Join" breakout room now?
14:19:13 <AWK> ack m
14:19:14 <Zakim> mbgower_, you wanted to say are we supposed to click "Join" breakout room now?
14:19:41 <AWK> zakim, draft minutes
14:19:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'draft minutes', AWK
14:20:01 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/TPAC_2023_Schedule#Monday_11_September_23_.28Meeting_Information.29
14:20:18 <AWK> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:20:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/11-ag-minutes.html AWK
14:23:53 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick_H_Lauke has joined #ag
14:25:40 <Chuck_> Shawn L?  You there?
14:25:40 <Chuck_> Can you assign Mitch to our breakout room?
14:27:41 <ljoakley1> ljoakley1 has joined #ag
14:29:15 <Chuck_> Me either.  Shawn has found another "glitch" too.  He cannot be logged in via multiple devices.  He gets kicked out.
14:29:31 <Rachael> hm. I was able to do so but only with multiple zoom accounts.
14:29:38 <Rachael> Let's move this to AG plan.
14:41:05 <daniel-montalvo> daniel-montalvo has joined #ag
14:59:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick_H_Lauke has joined #ag
15:02:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick_H_Lauke has joined #ag
15:18:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick_H_Lauke has joined #ag
15:19:54 <atomasevich> atomasevich has joined #ag
15:32:22 <shadi> shadi has joined #ag
15:48:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick_H_Lauke has joined #ag
16:19:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick_H_Lauke has joined #ag
16:41:29 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ag
17:41:33 <daniel-montalvo> daniel-montalvo has joined #ag