10:52:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwg
10:52:41 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/06-dxwg-irc
10:52:52 <LarsG> Zakim, please start meeting
10:52:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
10:52:54 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), LarsG
10:53:06 <LarsG> Meeting: DXWG CNEG Telecon
10:53:57 <LarsG> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2023.09.06
10:54:20 <LarsG> present+
10:54:32 <LarsG> regrets+ aisaac
10:55:44 <LarsG> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
10:55:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/06-dxwg-minutes.html LarsG
10:57:46 <YoucTagh> YoucTagh has joined #dxwg
11:01:05 <roba> roba has joined #dxwg
11:01:09 <NicholasCar> NicholasCar has joined #dxwg
11:01:11 <roba> present+
11:01:12 <NicholasCar> present+
11:01:16 <YoucTagh> present+
11:01:39 <LarsG> Chair: roba
11:01:45 <LarsG> ScribeNick: LarsG
11:01:54 <LarsG> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2023.09.06
11:02:09 <LarsG> Topic: Admin
11:02:39 <LarsG> Subtopic: approve minutes from last meeting
11:02:43 <roba> +1
11:02:46 <NicholasCar> +1
11:02:47 <YoucTagh> +1
11:02:55 <LarsG> PROPOSED: Approve last meeting's minutes
11:03:00 <LarsG> +1
11:03:14 <LarsG> RESOLVED: Minutes from last meeting approved
11:03:44 <LarsG> TOPIC: Status of actions from last meeting
11:03:54 <LarsG> https://www.w3.org/2023/08/23-dxwg-minutes#ActionSummary
11:05:13 <LarsG> No progress on any actions...
11:05:42 <LarsG> TOPIC: Open Github Issues
11:06:18 <LarsG> https://github.com/w3c/dx-connegp/issues
11:06:48 <LarsG> roba: This meeting also caters for PROF issues
11:08:02 <LarsG> NicholasCar: PROF is necessary for our work on CNEG, so need to work on that, too
11:09:08 <LarsG> roba: We need to update the WG note on prof
11:09:23 <LarsG> ... will contact pchampin to figure out the process
11:10:35 <LarsG> NicholasCar: will assign myself to relevant issues
11:10:59 <NicholasCar> (I want to do that but can't yet)
11:11:21 <LarsG> Subtopic: #32
11:12:03 <LarsG> s/Subtopic: #32//
11:14:21 <LarsG> ... #32, #27
11:15:03 <LarsG> There is a PR for #32
11:17:17 <LarsG> Still IPR issues for NicholasCar
11:17:29 <LarsG> SUBTOPIC: #44
11:17:57 <LarsG> roba: Proposal is to remove multiple canonicals
11:18:17 <LarsG> YoucTagh: We decided to add text that profile
11:18:37 <LarsG> ... takes presedence over media type
11:19:09 <LarsG> ... (maybe we didn't say that profile takes presedence,
11:19:23 <LarsG> ... but that is what the I-D  says)
11:19:55 <LarsG> ... there is a PR to fix that
11:20:11 <LarsG> ... NicholasCar has already approved
11:20:28 <LarsG> ... #46
11:21:53 <LarsG> SUBTOPIC: #43
11:22:32 <LarsG> YoucTagh: It's about media types that explicitl have a profile parameter
11:22:47 <LarsG> s/explicitl/explicitly/
11:25:41 <LarsG> roba: We need to create a PR to fix that, e. g. replacing text/turtle
11:26:02 <LarsG> ... with application/ld+json (or any other media type
11:26:17 <LarsG> ... that has a profile parameter)
11:26:35 <LarsG> SUBTOPIC: #9
11:26:55 <LarsG> s/#9/#5/
11:27:37 <LarsG> roba: Discussion in issue is to put it as future work
11:28:26 <LarsG> ... implication is that we need implementations
11:28:36 <LarsG> ... if we want to push it forward
11:28:48 <LarsG> ... not high on priority but could be managed
11:29:17 <LarsG> ... this is alwo related to #39
11:29:29 <LarsG> YoucTagh: If we just send a default representation
11:29:50 <LarsG> ... we need to say which profile it conforms to
11:31:50 <LarsG> roba: The question is if the client knows that the server
11:32:05 <LarsG> .. supports cneg
11:32:22 <LarsG> NicholasCar: If the client knows about conneg, it would
11:32:40 <LarsG> ... do a HEAD request to figure out what the server has
11:32:56 <LarsG> ... don't see the case of the server telling the client
11:33:34 <LarsG> ... that it supports conneg
11:33:52 <LarsG> ... because that is implicit in the conversation anyway
11:34:17 <LarsG> YoucTagh: If we use header-based negotiation, it makes sense
11:34:50 <LarsG> roba: Having 300 Multiple Values does not really add value
11:35:07 <LarsG> ... since that can be done through HEAD
11:35:16 <LarsG> s/Values/Choices/
11:36:52 <LarsG> LarsG: The absence of a Vary header with "accept-profile"
11:37:08 <LarsG> ... is a sign to the client that the server does not
11:37:28 <LarsG> ... support profile negotiation (as said by YoucTagh)
11:37:52 <LarsG> ... that's what the I-D says
11:38:50 <LarsG> roba: See little rationale to implement this
11:39:14 <LarsG> NicholasCar: Our implementation answes with a default
11:39:41 <LarsG> ... and the link header tells the client
11:39:52 <LarsG> ... if he got what it asked for
11:40:03 <LarsG> ... If you got what you asked for, everything is fine,
11:40:48 <LarsG> ... and if you didn't, the server doesn't support it
11:41:08 <LarsG> ... so that the client can do a follow-up request
11:42:12 <LarsG> roba: We don't have a specific requirement what to do in this case
11:49:09 <LarsG> ... 300 Multiple Choices is a gentler way of engaging
11:49:21 <LarsG> ... the client than just returning a default that the
11:49:35 <LarsG> ... client might not be able to handle.
11:49:55 <LarsG> ... Maybe 300 is a better default than 200
11:50:50 <LarsG> NicholasCar: Generally, servers answer with defaults
11:51:18 <LarsG> ... whenever I don't specify media types, profles etc.
11:51:41 <LarsG> roba: Suggest to take this discussion offline, am willing
11:51:52 <LarsG> ... to change behaviour of my implementation
11:52:51 <LarsG> NicholasCar: maybe replace "default" with "fallback"
11:53:27 <LarsG> roba: suggest that we add text that the server MAY respond
11:53:32 <NicholasCar> Here is a ConnegP resource returning a defalt view, since no profile is specified, with a notification in the HTML response to the Alt Profiles profile page: https://linked.data.gov.au/dataset/asgsed3/MB/10181560000
11:53:34 <LarsG> ... with 300
11:56:19 <LarsG> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
11:56:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/06-dxwg-minutes.html LarsG
11:56:53 <LarsG> NicholasCar: The logic is the same as with the Accept header
11:58:45 <LarsG> roba: Will update implementation
11:59:17 <LarsG> ACTION: NicholasCar to hassle pchampin re write access
11:59:50 <pchampin> got that action
12:00:05 <pchampin> apologies about today's call, but I'm swamped with TPAC preparation
12:00:12 <LarsG> YoucTagh: we need to balance proactive and reactive conneg
12:00:47 <LarsG> ... the other uses 200 + defaults using linked headers.
12:01:14 <LarsG> ... If you're not using defaults, you need to answer with 406,
12:01:31 <LarsG> ... meaning that I'm not willing to give you a default or options
12:02:03 <LarsG> ACTION: YoucTagh to add his preferred choice to #39
12:03:02 <LarsG> ACTION: LarsG to put wording from I-D into #39
12:03:25 <LarsG> SUBTOPIC: #45
12:03:36 <LarsG> YoucTagh: Happy to provide a PR for that one
12:03:53 <LarsG> ACTION: YoucTagh to prepare PR for #45
12:04:00 <NicholasCar> present-
12:04:24 <LarsG> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
12:04:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/06-dxwg-minutes.html LarsG
12:05:31 <LarsG> zakim, please end meeting
12:05:31 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been LarsG, roba, NicholasCar, YoucTagh
12:05:33 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
12:05:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/06-dxwg-minutes.html Zakim
12:06:09 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, LarsG; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
12:06:09 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dxwg
12:06:09 <LarsG> RRSAgent, please excuse us
12:06:09 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/09/06-dxwg-actions.rdf :
12:06:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: NicholasCar to hassle pchampin re write access [1]
12:06:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/09/06-dxwg-irc#T11-59-17
12:06:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: YoucTagh to add his preferred choice to #39 [2]
12:06:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/09/06-dxwg-irc#T12-02-03
12:06:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: LarsG to put wording from I-D into #39 [3]
12:06:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/09/06-dxwg-irc#T12-03-02
12:06:09 <RRSAgent> ACTION: YoucTagh to prepare PR for #45 [4]
12:06:09 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/09/06-dxwg-irc#T12-03-53