Meeting minutes
Go through the pull request list
https://
w3c/clreq#570
All: agreed to merge
w3c/clreq#563
All: agreed to merge
Go through the issue list
https://
w3c/clreq#531
xfq: Richard gave some suggestions and polished the text
Eric: looks good to me
Eric: easier to understand now
w3c/clreq#530
xfq: it's about horizontal-in-vertical
Eric: I think the new text is okay, what do you all think about the comment on the limit?
… it is not common in Chinese
Eiso: 3 characters is more common
Eric: 4 characters is for years
… Some fonts have 1/3 em glyphs
Eiso: Five-digit years are still many years away
Eric: Do you think we should to mention this upper limit?
Eiso: yes
xfq: I'll raise an issue for it
… and remove the checkme
w3c/clreq#572
Eric: Do you think it is necessary to mention Kaiming? I don't think it's necessary personally
… the rules of Kaiming are not strict
… there are old Kaiming and new Kaiming
… they are different
[Eric introduces the rules]
Yijun: I don't think we should mention Kaiming
Yijun: Kaiming method can be implemented by using the existing mechanism in clreq
Eiso: agreed
Eric: and it is hard to describe
Yijun: it's like in some places people prefer single quotes, in some other places people prefer double quotes
Eric: yeah
… We can reply to @DavidFangWJ that we don't think it's necessary to mention Kaiming in clreq
… because it doesn't have a clear model
w3c/clreq#573
Eric: didn't understand the Chinese text until I read it several times and compare it with jlreq
… It's rare in Chinese
[Discuss the details of this situation]
Eric: I'll create an illustration
Yijun: it is less common in Chinese than in Japanese
[Discuss the description in jlreq]
Bobby: I have encountered this situation
… I'll update the text
Eiso: Is it possible for the inserted content to contain multiple paragraphs?
Eric: yes
Yijun: and the font may change
Eric: There are such examples in the Chinese novel Journey to the West
[Discuss the examples in Journey to the West]
Zhengyu: The web doesn't support this kind of thing well
[Discuss the gap in HTML]
w3c/clreq#568
Eiso: According to CY/T 154-2017, authors should not use Chinese book title marks for the titles of English books, newspapers and periodicals
Eiso: but in the print industry, people do use Chinese book title marks
Eric: aesthetically, using Chinese book title marks for Western text is ugly
Eric: Purely from an aesthetic point of view, U+00AB is better than U+300A
Eiso: General Rules for Punctuation (GB/T 15834—2011) stipulates that a secondary comma must not be added between two book title marks
… If we use book title marks, we should not add secondary commas, but if we use italics, we have to add secondary commas
… But this problem does not exist in Hong Kong
… Because Hong Kong stipulates that a secondary comma should be added between two book title marks
… not sure about Taiwan
Eric: Every region has different conventions
… Some people follow industry regulations like CY/T 154-2017, and some don't
… we can mention this as a note
Eiso: According to the rationale of the industry standard, if it is a Japanese book, people should use the Japanese book title marks
Eric: yes, I use 『』 when mentioning a Japanese book in Chinese
Yijun: Not every book has a Chinese name
Eiso: If the book title contains both Chinese and Western text, can the Chinese book title marks be used?
Eric: Do we need to recommend a practice? Readers may need it
Zhengyu: I suggest that CLReq avoid mentioning this fow now, because even just for works with English titles, there are still some alternatives in the English-speaking world in terms of how to mark them
Eiso: Sawcuengh and Bouyei use Chinese book title marks
… If the book title is in English, follow the English rules, if it is Sawcuengh, follow the Sawcuengh rules, follow the conventions of the language
… consider the language, not the script
… Many Taiwanese indigenous peoples also use Latin script, but I don't know how they use punctuation, I know they mix it with Chinese
Yijun: What if there are five book titles in five languages in one piece of text?
… It should be left to the author to judge for themselves
Zhengyu: Chinese book title marks are not only used for book titles. In English, italic is used for book titles, but not necessarily for newspaper titles, movie titles, album titles, etc.
Bobby: in Taiwan, song names do not need book title marks
Zhengyu: in practice, when listing titles in five languages/scripts at the same time, people seldom mark with five different punctuation marks as it would confuse readers. In this case, unifying into one style is almost the only choice.
[Discuss the usage of book title marks]
Bobby: authors themselves can decide
Eric: Should we mention CY/T 154—2017 in clreq?
Eiso: I'll write some text
Eric: we can discuss Eiso's text in our next meeting
Next teleconference time
October 17 (Tuesday), 19:00-20:00 (UTC+8)