12:50:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-motion
12:51:01 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/09/04-wcag3-motion-irc
12:51:05 <Rain> agenda?
12:51:10 <Rain> zakim, start meeting
12:51:10 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:51:12 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Rain
12:51:25 <Rain> meeting name: Harm from motion subgroup meeting 7
12:51:34 <Rain> chair: Rain
12:51:49 <Rain> agenda+ assign scribe
12:52:09 <Rain> agenda- assign scribe
12:52:18 <Rain> zakim, remove agenda item 1
12:52:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'remove agenda item 1', Rain
12:52:27 <Rain> zakim, clear item 1
12:52:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'clear item 1', Rain
12:53:13 <Rain> agenda- 1
12:53:19 <Rain> agenda?
12:53:47 <Rain> agenda+ Get updates from Sheri and Andy re: their outcomes work
12:53:51 <Rain> agenda?
12:54:05 <Rain> agenda+ Review all of the outcomes, what is in them, and decide how we will get the right language into them for review next week
12:54:12 <Rain> agenda+ Determine how we will prepare the pull request
12:54:22 <Rain> agenda+ Determine what we want to present on September 5 (final share out)
12:54:28 <Rain> agenda?
12:56:58 <Eric_hind> Eric_hind has joined #wcag3-motion
13:01:17 <Eric_hind> present+
13:01:38 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #wcag3-motion
13:02:21 <Rain> scribe: Eric_hind
13:02:39 <jedi> present+
13:03:46 <jeanne> present+
13:04:29 <jeanne> present+ Eric_hind, Sheri_Bryne-Haber, Alatair
13:04:39 <sheribyrne> sheribyrne has joined #wcag3-motion
13:04:46 <sheribyrne> present+
13:04:51 <Eric_hind> Rain: Note that Presentation to AGWG is tomorrow (Tuesday); this will be the basis of our pull request
13:04:52 <jeanne> q+ to say problems with PR
13:05:02 <Rain> ack jeanne
13:05:02 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say problems with PR
13:06:22 <Rain> zakim, take up item 1
13:06:22 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- assign scribe -- taken up [from Rain]
13:06:31 <Rain> zakim, take up item 2
13:06:31 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Get updates from Sheri and Andy re: their outcomes work -- taken up [from Rain]
13:06:47 <Rain> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jCOE4cO68V-QUiZEhJNkrQydNmW71ljaCGGu2Zmnlok/edit#heading=h.bih6irhqb697
13:07:17 <Eric_hind> Jeanne: Notes that there may be config issues on the pull that may shift when the pull happens.
13:10:25 <jeanne> q+ to disagree with levels
13:10:35 <Eric_hind> Sheri: (Created with Andrew) Visual motion and pseudo motion presented (via scratchpad).  Specific  point-outs on non-harmful motion (5 seconds), unexpected movement with examples.  Categories of impact were suggested.
13:11:40 <alastairc> q+ on exact values from continuums, re WCAG 2 values
13:11:42 <Rain> q?
13:11:44 <Eric_hind> Sheri: Questions around 5 seconds in WCAG 2.2.2 raised.  There are some source papers listed in the scratchpad for future review
13:11:56 <Rain> ack jeanne
13:11:56 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to disagree with levels
13:12:47 <alastairc> q+ to also say categories could be for type of trigger, rather than type of effect.
13:13:44 <Eric_hind> Jeanne: Point around assigning levels raised as any impact for some users can be too much.  Sheri and Jeanne agree this is a future discussion point.
13:13:50 <Rain> ack alastairc
13:13:50 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to comment on exact values from continuums, re WCAG 2 values and to also say categories could be for type of trigger, rather than type of effect.
13:15:30 <Eric_hind> Alastair: As an FYI, often static values (like 5 seconds) used as thresholds are not based on research (from WCAG information); more often as a consensus during other discussions.
13:16:27 <Eric_hind> q+
13:16:35 <Rain> ack Eric_hind
13:16:35 <alastairc> NB: There would have been research saying "these things are bad", but there is unlikely to be a number that comes out of those research papers.
13:16:41 <jeanne> scribe+ jeanne
13:16:59 <jeanne> Eric_hind: Is there a reason there are hard numbers?
13:17:22 <jeanne> sheribyrne: My understanding is that Pause Stop Hide was oriented toward carousels
13:17:52 <jeanne> ... 5 sectonds was time to absorb the information
13:18:20 <jeanne> Rain: ALso the number of seconds is for testing reasons
13:18:40 <jeanne> Sheri: People know it, so I am reluctant to change it without evidence.
13:19:06 <Rain> zakim, take up item 3
13:19:06 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review all of the outcomes, what is in them, and decide how we will get the right language into them for review next week -- taken up [from Rain]
13:19:06 <alastairc> Again - there is research, it's just that research for things on a continuum is very unlikely to establish a useful number to test against.
13:20:27 <Rain> Slide for outcome 1 - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1fIJz7D312pOFImzKVCM9eTvQP8w0drJlf0td-xw6eOs/edit#slide=id.g27b2926f369_0_39
13:21:45 <jeanne> +1 to take out medical references
13:23:36 <Eric_hind> * yes
13:23:44 <Eric_hind> Rain: Assigning slides for outcomes; Outcome 1: Visual motion and pseudo motion are under User Control (note that Neurological is removed per Jedi)
13:26:36 <Eric_hind> Rain: Functional Needs slides reviewed (rain to update)
13:27:19 <Eric_hind> Rain: What's Included /Implementation slides reviewed (sheri to update)
13:27:47 <Rain> q?
13:28:17 <jeanne> +1 to Jedi's change.  It's more clear
13:28:49 <Rain> ack?
13:28:51 <Rain> q?
13:29:19 <Eric_hind> Rain: How are we defining non-harmful motion? (stretch goal)
13:30:10 <jedi> +1 to allowable motion
13:30:16 <Eric_hind> Rain: Non-harmful motion question, per Sheri maybe this is allowed?
13:30:40 <alastairc> q+ to ask about scoping
13:31:02 <Rain> ack alastairc
13:31:02 <Zakim> alastairc, you wanted to ask about scoping
13:31:02 <Eric_hind> Sheri: Add to questions do we need categories, Rain agrees
13:32:00 <Eric_hind> Alastair: Notes that defining non-harmful motion will eventually be something we need to do.
13:32:47 <Eric_hind> Rain: Adding examples into slides (per Sheri and Andrew scratchpad work)
13:34:16 <Eric_hind> Rain: Adding questions recommended for next subgroup or step; definition harmful/allowable motion, is 5 seconds the right number (more or less?) what research or considerations should be included...
13:35:28 <Eric_hind> Rain: Adding questions about categorizing motion as harmful, cumulatively harmful, functional use impedance
13:38:47 <Eric_hind> Rain: Outcome 2: Users are safe from the effects of continuous motion (actual or perceived); per discussion with Alastair, maybe this is too close to Outcome 1
13:39:11 <Eric_hind> Rain: Outcome 2, Alastair is updating.
13:39:12 <alastairc> Jeanne - is there a method of having stronger vs more-flexible versions of an outcome in one thing, or should we keep the separate for now?
13:39:38 <Rain> q?
13:40:26 <Eric_hind> Rain: We think that all the user stories apply to this one (like Outcome 1).  Visual memory does apply here.
13:42:32 <Eric_hind> Rain: Adding ideas for how this is implemented or included (flashing is avoided by default,  spatial orientation is consistent, include scrolling). Alastair will add others asynchronously.
13:44:19 <Eric_hind> Rain: Adding slide examples like screen curtain, animation doesn't move, high contrast zigzag, etc.
13:46:02 <Rain> Poll, okay with removing the word extreme from Users are safe from extreme physical reactions due to flashing and strobing (such as seizures or sudden dizziness)
13:46:04 <Rain> +1
13:46:06 <jedi> +1
13:46:06 <Eric_hind> +1
13:46:13 <jeanne> +1
13:46:36 <alastairc> +1, alhtough wondering how 'physical' some of the reactions feel?
13:46:40 <sheribyrne> +1
13:46:58 <sheribyrne> from personal experience, it does feel pretty physical
13:47:03 <Eric_hind> Rain: List of outcomes slides assigned to individuals for editing; Sheri has Visual motion and pseudo motion, Alastair has Safe from the Effects of continuous motion, Jeanne to take Users are Safe from Physical Reactions.
13:50:33 <Eric_hind> Rain: List of outcomes assigned (continued):  Controls and elements have a consistent orientation to Tiffany with a backup of Rain.  Jedi has Audio Shifting. Eric to take move in order to use content, user is able to save their task progress.
13:52:55 <Eric_hind> Rain: Will create slides, copy and paste content from scratchpad, assigned individuals to clean up for tomorrows presentation today, to be ready for tomorrow AGWG meeting.  We can cross check with functional needs too.
13:53:00 <Rain> Poll, Rain proposed next steps, is everyone good with them?
13:53:02 <Eric_hind> +1
13:53:09 <alastairc> +1
13:53:09 <jedi> +1
13:53:09 <jeanne> +1
13:53:45 <Rain> zakim, take up item 4
13:53:45 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Determine how we will prepare the pull request -- taken up [from Rain]
13:54:28 <Eric_hind> Rain: Prep for pull request, plan it out via scratchpad.
13:56:07 <Eric_hind> Rain: After presentation tomorrow, will pull feedback back into a form we can asynchronously review and be ready for next weeks final meeting.  Then Jeanne can provide instructions to do the actual pull.
13:56:07 <Rain> agenda?
13:56:19 <Rain> zakim, take up item 5
13:56:19 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Determine what we want to present on September 5 (final share out) -- taken up [from Rain]
13:58:20 <Rain> zakim, make minutes
13:58:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', Rain
13:58:29 <Rain> RRSAgent: make minutes
13:58:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/04-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Rain
13:59:15 <Rain> zakim, end meeting
13:59:15 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Eric_hind, jedi, jeanne, Sheri_Bryne-Haber, Alatair, sheribyrne
13:59:17 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:59:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/09/04-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Zakim
13:59:24 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Rain; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
13:59:24 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag3-motion