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15:02:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
15:02:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
15:03:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6246bc85-4dae-43a8-a50c-9bc5a0829585/20230830T110000/
15:03:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
15:03:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
15:03:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
15:03:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ smaug
15:03:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ plh
15:03:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present_ mustaq
15:03:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ mustaq
15:03:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
15:03:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Meta-issue: update WPT to cover Pointer Events Level 3 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/445
15:04:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: we have 5 open https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=is%3Aclosed+label%3Aneeds-wpt+
15:05:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: i did file the webdriver issue about coalesced/predicted events
15:05:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: but will still need to be manual for now, as it won't be supported anytime soon
15:05:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> https://github.com/w3c/webdriver/issues/1759
15:06:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: fixed some of the test, hope to do 411 after TPAC
15:06:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: consider to change the behavior of getCoalescedEvents on non-SecureContext https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/472
15:07:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: I made a naive minimal PR, can we check it? https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/480/files
15:07:47 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: before that, do we have data from the use counter?
15:08:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: we've not looked into this...
15:08:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: the use counter was added in juli
15:08:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: but since, we looked at the counter and there was no data, so might not have been used
15:08:45 <flackr> https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/4598
15:08:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: but it's relatively new counter, so may not be representative
15:09:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: if usage is very low, we could try to keep spec as it is right now...
15:09:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: i think this is low enough for us to consider NOT to have the API
15:11:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: so Patrick we don't need your PR at all
15:11:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so do we need to say anything in spec about it only being for secure context?
15:11:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: no, it already says so in the IDL
15:11:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> RESOLUTION: PR not needed
15:12:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: can we close https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/472 ?
15:12:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: one other issue already has needs-WPT, so don't need to keep this one open
15:12:48 <smaug> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/318 has needs-wpt, and I'll write a test
15:13:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Clarify pointerleave and pointerout events when first pointer move after removing an element under the pointer https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/477
15:14:26 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: there's a discussion on the interop
15:14:34 <mustaq> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/interop/issues/380
15:15:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: i was looking at it too, and your proposal seemed reasonable ... but there are issues: if you change slot attribute, you end up being slotted elsewhere, so it's almost like a removal...what should happen then, since ancestor chain will be different
15:15:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we should track the nearest non-removed ancestor of the event path
15:15:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: not when you're changing node, but when you change slot
15:16:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: does that not fire change as well?
15:16:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: I think we should interpret it as: that entire slot was removed, so the node that the mouse was previously over that had enter fired to it...
15:17:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: nothing would be removed from the DOM, so we need to fire something else... the flatten tree is different because the slot is different ... need to think about this a bit more. but liked your idea
15:17:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: can we add note in issue?
15:17:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: added a few points in the interop issue
15:18:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: the test currently assumes that in and out events are paired on the parent node
15:18:29 <Patrick_H_Lauke> s/paired/interleaved
15:18:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we should test the case where the cursor is STILL over the same parent, so doesn't need to fire another enter
15:19:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: there are more cases that need to be tested
15:20:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: another question about event order (does over come before enter, etc). PE doesn't specify it...
15:20:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we should match UI Events order
15:20:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: problem is UI Events doesn't define this either (?)
15:20:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: only WPTs that assert it
15:21:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we should file an issue to specify which one fires first
15:21:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: suspect enter should fire before over, because we don't dispatch enter to ancestors, but over we do
15:21:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: because over bubbles, but enter doesn't
15:22:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: I think over is dispatched first...
15:23:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [further discussion on current weird order in different implementations]
15:25:38 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: as developer, i'd expect enter - over and then out - leave
15:25:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: but as developer you wouldn't listen to both in most cases
15:26:23 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: we currently fire over then enter, and out then leave ... which is weird
15:27:19 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: test for mouse seems to pass in all browsers. think it's wrong, but not going to argue too strongly that we should change it
15:27:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: checking the mouse one ... over then enter, out then leave ... and that's been there forever
15:27:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: so keep this assumption for our own WPTs?
15:28:06 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: how hard would it be to change it (for mouse events as well?). might add a use counter
15:28:40 <mustaq> https://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/#events-mouseevent-event-order
15:28:46 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: this is defined in a sense in UI Events 5.3.3
15:29:33 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: don't like the order, but no reason why PE shouldn't do the same thing
15:29:42 <mustaq> The order specified by example there is (over, enter, out, leave).
15:29:55 <mustaq> Let's keep that in the current test then
15:30:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: not specified in PE, and maybe PE should say something about it...
15:31:01 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: should have the same event ordering as mouse events, explicitly
15:31:44 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: consider if PE needs to clarify event order for enter/over leave/out etc
15:32:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Rob to consider if PE needs to clarify event order for enter/over and leave/out etc
15:36:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: video for TPAC
15:37:12 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: I've got the presentation ready with links to various demos that we want to show, have carved out time to record it tomorrow and send it, will then be on the w3c site before TPAC (will share link once I have it)
15:37:27 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:37:34 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:37:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/30-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
15:37:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
15:37:55 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/08/30-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:37:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: consider if PE needs to clarify event order for enter/over leave/out etc [1]
15:37:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/08/30-pointerevents-irc#T15-31-44
15:37:55 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Rob to consider if PE needs to clarify event order for enter/over and leave/out etc [2]
15:37:55 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/08/30-pointerevents-irc#T15-32-07