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18:02:24 <jugglinmike> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:02:37 <jugglinmike> Zakim, start the meeting
18:02:37 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
18:02:39 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jugglinmike
18:03:08 <jugglinmike> meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force Weekly Teleconference
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18:09:54 <jugglinmike> present+ jugglinmike
18:09:56 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
18:10:02 <jugglinmike> Topic: Status of Site Updates
18:10:10 <Jem> present+JaeunJemmaKu
18:10:21 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We need to double-check that everything we intended to publish is on the branch
18:10:49 <Jem> https://github.com/w3c/wai-aria-practices/pull/252
18:11:38 <jugglinmike> Jem: I can double-check in production, and I'll comment in that pull request
18:12:12 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It looks like we're well on our way to getting more fixes and improvements in place for the end of September
18:13:01 <jugglinmike> Jem: So a target date of September 26
18:13:25 <jugglinmike> Topic: Pull request reviews
18:13:41 <Jem> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2775
18:13:43 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Move feed example inside the page
18:13:51 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2775
18:14:18 <jugglinmike> present+ andrea_cardona_
18:14:27 <jugglinmike> andrea_cardona_: We were working on this yesterday
18:14:30 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This looks good. It makes me wonder what we want to do with the content in the iframe
18:14:30 <Jem> https://deploy-preview-248--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/patterns/feed/examples/feed/
18:14:41 <Jem> Preview is available from above url
18:15:16 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: there's a  part of me that wishes that the control was not inside of the example. I'm also thinking we should get rid of all the text which is on the example page but not part of the page
18:15:31 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: And we should remove the "main" region within the iframe
18:15:52 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'm also wondering about the visual presentation of the example, now
18:16:14 <jongund> https://deploy-preview-248--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/patterns/feed/examples/feed/
18:16:34 <jugglinmike> [Jem shares their screen]
18:16:57 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The control I was referring to is labeled "Select article loading delay"
18:18:12 <dmontalvo> present+ Daniel
18:18:53 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The carousel page places a control above the example in a dedicated section titled "Example Options"
18:19:13 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'm wondering if we want a similar "Example Options" heading above the example in the Feed Display
18:20:22 <jugglinmike> andrea_cardona_: I think we should do that! ariellalgilmore and I can definitely add that feature in
18:21:35 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The benefit would be that it would give us a space where we can explain the control
18:22:20 <CurtBellew> present+
18:27:18 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: It also more strongly delineates the APG example from the UI for modifying the example's behavior. Folks who are new to this pattern might otherwise be confused about which parts of the UI are part of Feed
18:29:20 <dmontalvo> q+
18:31:39 <jugglinmike> jongund: Can we add the words "infinite scroll" to the title? Maybe "Infinite Scroll Feed Example" ?
18:31:45 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That's a good idea
18:32:17 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think the heading "Recommended Restaurants" should be level 3 (it's currently a level 1 heading)
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18:37:32 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I will write a new description of the "select loading delay" control after we've moved it out of the iframe
18:38:48 <jugglinmike> Jem: What is the accessibilty concern which motivates this control?
18:38:50 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: If you set that value to something exaggerated like 3 seconds, if you're scrolling by navigating by article heading, then the AT shouldn't jump out of the feed, and it should convey aria-busy
18:40:12 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: the Feed pattern is intended to be a sort of stopgap for the fact that we don't have the larger "virtualized content" issue resolved in ARIA
18:40:32 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think it's going to be a long time before we can take that one. Even years away
18:40:50 <jugglinmike> s/that one/that on/
18:41:35 <jugglinmike> Jem: Microsoft has previously come up with a proposal to handle infinite scroll. I don't know if that proposal is still active
18:44:33 <jugglinmike> Topic: New Issue Action Planning
18:45:07 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Using aria-owns with late-mounted descendants
18:45:12 <Jem> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2771
18:45:15 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2771
18:46:32 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It seems like the reporter is proposing that we add something to this topic to the APG, but it's not clear
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18:47:13 <Jem> https://dev.to/mpaiva/using-aria-owns-with-late-mounted-descendants-nma
18:47:38 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: There isn't a lot of support for aria-busy
18:48:26 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: aria-busy can hide content from the AT while it's true. I've seen situations where aria-busy is set to "true", it makes the page unusable
18:49:01 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: how does aria-owns play into this?
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18:50:06 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think a great action would be to read this article
18:50:48 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We won't be meeting again until September 19. That's a long time to ask the reporter to wait, and they've already been waiting a while
18:52:10 <jugglinmike> jongund: the reporter seems to be conflating (a little bit) aria-selected and aria-activedescendant
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18:53:51 <jugglinmike> [the group experiments with the reporter's example]
18:55:07 <jugglinmike> jongund: they may be misusing aria-busy. That attribute should be on the container element
18:55:45 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:55:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/29-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
18:56:29 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: So, the first list box is under "expected flights"
18:56:54 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: As you scroll through that list, how is aria-busy used?
18:57:17 <jugglinmike> jongund: aria-busy is on each div element with the role "option"
18:57:23 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: What is the purpose of that?
18:57:28 <jugglinmike> jongund: I don't know
18:57:47 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: JAWS is announcing as the flights are arriving
18:59:50 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: JAWS had a hard time even finding the version embedded in the page. I had better luck when I opened it in CodePen
19:01:05 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: I wouldn't necessarily use aria-busy for this; just a live region would be sufficient. But that makes me think that we may be missing the reporter's intention
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19:02:56 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I have a slightly better understanding of what's going on here. I think the article deserves some feedback, but I don't know if they were just looking for feedback or if they would like to incorporate this into APG
19:03:12 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think this is an important topic. We should bring it up again in the next agenda
19:03:41 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: If jongund or CurtBellew have time, please comment. I'll do the same
19:04:29 <jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting
19:04:29 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, JaeunJemmaKu, andrea_cardona_, Daniel, CurtBellew
19:04:32 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
19:04:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/29-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim
19:04:40 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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