Meeting minutes
find a volunteer to scribe
<Rain> zakim take up item 2
Discuss feedback from AG presentation and determine what we would like to do with it
Discuss feedback from AG presentation and determine what we would like to do with it
Rain: We need to fit in micro-animations. That may or may not go into Outcomes.
… Question about whether or not we are addressing functional needs related to limited vision and neurological aspects of having to scan/visual processing of having to scan
Jeanne: Can we capture the comment on "micro animation is related to the "size" of the on-screen motion" for a future definition of microanimation?
Rain: captured in the definitions section
Rain: AG agreed to the concept of splitting out haptics and audio into their own criteria
<AndySomers> =1
<AndySomers> +1
<tburtin> +1
review of outcomes
Rain: I did some async work refining and organizing the list of functional needs
… Jedi noted that vestibular disorder is not necessarily neurological, so we should remove references to diagnosis and focus on the need, not the why of the need. We can cover the why of the need in the Description. We want to make it siimpler for people to get to the heart of the issue without a lot of words.
… Looking at the the user stories
… look at these asyncrously and make suggestions.
… I started to refine the list of outcomes
Andy and Sheri: Will have an update next week.
Makoto: I added outcomes for flashing content
… I added phrases from WCAG2 flashing and included some info from WCAG2 Flashing techniques
… I am wondering if the screen resolution we set 15 years ago are still apppropriate
… modern users magnify their screens much more than 15 years ago
AndySomers: I have been doing some research on this. On screen resolution, when these studies were done in the 90s, most of the studies were done on 20" TV sets in Japan.
… Today we have mobile devices that are orders of magnitude brighter.
… resolution is much higher pixel density
… the standard of the reference pixel is supposed to have an arc-minute of 1.78 of vusual angle. Manufacturers use still use it.
… people who are holding their phones closer to their eyes have a larger visual field. When it is that big, a very low flicker can be seizure-inducing
… when I ran through the numbers I think it should be about 150 picels
Rain: This is more granular than our group needs to explore. I think the question is should we investigate more research
AndySomers: WCAG2 is out of date
?
Rain: One thing I'm thinking about is that these questions are really important.
… Can we include "Users are safe from a seizures due to photosensitivity triggered by flashing content" under continuous motion? Can we have fewer, stronger outcomes that are more broad, or do we need to keep them separate.
tburtin: I would like to include scrolling under continuous motion.
… It could be impactful for people for sudden movement or unexpected movement.
Rain: I will add a note to include scrolling example as a user story
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say to keep them separate
jeanne: I think they should be separate for now. I think they have different tests and different solutions.
Rain: Flashing can be one-off or continuous. I wonder if we have not done enough to capture the non-continuous motion aspect. I worry about the impact on user experience.
tburtin: Seizures are extremely serious. There is also harm from movement that can cause migraines and illness. Seizures get people's attention, but the subset of difficulties beyond seizures is still serious.
AndySomers: It needs to be called out in the name. Photoseizures have a narrow patterns. Migraines may have different causality.
Rain: We want to continue the breakout and make sure they are inclusive of all the harms. '
… we need to include continuous and non-continuous motion.
<AndySomers> Bright line on non-continuous flashing is 3 within one second.
Sheri: It would be better to define pseudo-motion so we can reference it everywhere we discuss motion
Rain: I have added it to the definitions section in the Scratchpad document.
Jedi: I changed the name from audio motion to audio shift.
<AndySomers> Is audio moving?
<AndySomers> to a new SC?
<AndySomers> Yes there are some ovderlaps
<AndySomers> overlaps
tburtin: I want to include people who synethesia - people who hear colors.
rain: That should be included in both places for different reasons.
… I am adding synesthesia to our user stories
AndySomers: Synesthesia can go in different directions for different people. I kthink audio should be a separate category under the larger category of "do no harm". Audio would be completely separate from video
… there is a lot of cross-over and should be under a larger categorization
Rain: We will include that in our recommendations
tburtin: I wrote a generic test and a draft outcome: Text is displayed in the appropriate orientation for reading in that language, and doesn’t require the user to tilt or turn their head to view the content.
… I then wrote examples of this outcome done well.
… and examples of fails.
… my main concern is people who have to keep a stable neck (like a neck brace) and when an author has turned the content orientation to conserve page space.
Rain: I don't think this has been captured in WCAG2, so this is fantastic material to include in our output. It's a form of harm from motion that has not previously been considered.
Jedi: In Japanese and Chinese, we have vertical orientation in line. It may cause a problem here. I will add specific information for internationalization.
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say keep it in this guideline
<tburtin> +1
<AndySomers> +1
<Makoto> +1
Jeanne: I kthink this should be kept in the guidelines so it gets in a pull request at the end.
Determine what we want the final output of our group to be so that we can work
Rain: I think we should do that for audio, as well.
Determine what we will present at the Aug. 29 meeting
Rain: I think we should present our Outcomes and we are aligning them with our user needs.
Logistics
<AndySomers> +1
Rain: who is avilable next week
<jedi_lin> +1
+1
<Makoto> +1
Rain: we will go ahead and meet. If I can't, I will ask someone to fill in for me.
<tburtin> Not sure
<sheribyrne_> is Sept 12 during TPAC?
Can we finish by 12 September?
<AndySomers> I can
Jeanne: wants help with getting a PR together
Rain and Andy will help with the PR