05:03:27 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 05:03:32 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/08/23-i18n-irc 05:03:33 Meeting: I18N ⇔ CSS 05:03:41 present+ fantasai, atsushi, xfq 05:03:50 rrsagent, make log public 05:03:52 rrsagent, make minutes 05:03:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/23-i18n-minutes.html xfq 05:04:22 zakim, who is here? 05:04:22 Present: fantasai, atsushi, xfq 05:04:24 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, atsushi, xfq, r12a, gb, kevin, Rachael, alastairc, csarven, fantasai, eemeli, RenoirBoulanger, BoKilgore, MojGraph, imlostlmao, gonzu_15, clafase, 05:04:24 ... Github, astearns, bigbluehat, hadleybeeman, agendabot, koji, Mek, cwilso, florian, plh, Bert, hsivonen 05:04:41 present+ r12a 05:10:07 scribe+ 05:10:30 https://www.w3.org/TR/css-anchor-position-1/ 05:10:39 https://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/specs/css-anchor-exploration/ 05:10:56 https://twitter.com/jensimmons/status/1682142089533063169 05:11:13 fantasai: I think the most exciting thing I have is that the CSSWG is working on an anchor positioning proposal 05:11:22 ... which has been getting a lot of discussion lately 05:11:26 ... draft ^ 05:11:30 ... slide deck ^ 05:12:06 ... the thing interesting for i18n is the way that different proposals handle writing mode relative positioning and styling 05:12:16 ... that's an ongoing discussion 05:12:50 ... one of the interesting things about the newer proposal is that it opens up the possibility to choose physical/logical side 05:12:54 https://drafts.csswg.org/css-backgrounds-4/#the-background-position 05:13:10 ... also about backgrounds, also ongoing 05:13:33 ... the other thing that's interesting about writing mode relativity is which writing mode are we using 05:14:00 https://www.w3.org/TR/css-align-3/#positional-values 05:14:03 ... when you have an element and you're using the logical property, because of the limitations and how we calculate the cascade, we can only use the writing mode of the element itself 05:14:27 ... but a lot of times when you're doing layout with writing mode you want the writing mode of the container 05:15:18 ... it might be interesting from an i18n point of view to know @@1 05:15:38 s/@@1/which writing mode you want to resolve start vs end relative to/ 05:16:39 -> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8442 05:17:07 Topic: Upstream small Kana to Kana mapping to Unicode 05:17:13 -> 05:17:15 -> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8442 05:17:28 fantasai: I asked i18n to upstream the small kana to kana mapping to Unicode 05:17:41 s/I asked/Not sure if we asked yet for/ 05:17:44 ... I don't remember if we actually did it or not 05:17:52 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text-3/#small-kana 05:17:53 r12a: I don't think we did that 05:18:33 -> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8987#issuecomment-1681184935 05:18:51 fantasai: on the topic of escalating things to Unicode, do we need to do anything? 05:19:20 Topic: Incorrect text-transform capitalize behavior for Catalan geminate Ls 05:19:44 r12a: I looked at UAX #29, didn't see any problem 05:19:45 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/29 -> Issue 29 dog food the character template in specdev and update TR (by aphillips) [task] [BLOCKED!!] 05:19:59 fantasai: there just needs to be a test and we can close the issue 05:21:16 Topic: TPAC 05:21:31 fantasai: is there anything we should put on the schedule for discussion at TPAC? 05:21:48 scribe+ 05:22:06 xfq: I think we can go through our i18n tracker needs resolution issues and see if there's anything we should discuss 05:22:59 xfq: Still open actions for font generics and for logical properties 05:23:04 xfq: other than that don't have anything for now 05:23:25 xfq: but we do have a lot of tracker issues against CSSWG drafts repo 05:23:37 xfq: might want to take a look and see what we can add to TPAC agenda 05:24:20 xfq: 2 things we want to discuss today: quote character issue, and other thing from Addison 05:24:23 [audio cut] 05:24:57 xfq: Unicode code-point styling issue 05:26:10 fantasai: why using Arial specifically? 05:26:19 r12a: compact and clear, good fallback 05:26:23 Topic: Add .uname and .codepoint to style characters inline 05:26:26 https://github.com/w3c/tr-design/pull/323 05:26:37 r12a: and another reason, I forgot 05:26:40 fantasai: remind me why are we using Arial specifically? 05:27:09 r12a: I don't remember 05:27:12 ... there was a reason 05:27:28 fantasai: and you went back to not having a space between the char and the code point 05:27:34 ... I think that's a bad idea 05:27:50 ... I think there should logically be a space there and we should allow it to stay there 05:28:23 ... I think it's more important to have spaces where space is belong to than have spaces be exactly you want 05:29:25 s/you want/the width you want/ 05:29:25 ... the next question I have is do we need the class=uname? 05:29:39 r12a: yes 05:29:58 ... we actually use that outside of the code point markup sometimes 05:30:28 fantasai: for uses outside of the code point, is that documented in the readme as well or is that a secret feature? 05:30:55 r12a: it's one of the things that we use, but whether we decided that would be for general I don't know 05:31:11 fantasai: I think it would make sense to just use code 05:31:32 r12a: it provides the semantics because code is not really the semantics for the Unicode character name 05:31:47 .uname, .codepoint code { ... } 05:31:50 ... if you don't have uname, you could end up just like normal code, which is not what we want 05:32:21 ... I'm hoping that we don't need to type all of that stuff and respec and bikeshed will generate the markup 05:32:30 fantasai: that seems quite reasonable for them to do 05:32:40 [[U+3000]] ? 05:32:51 ... we'll probably want to help them identify what's a good shorthand 05:33:00 https://github.com/w3c/respec/issues/4462 05:33:33 rrsagent, make minutes 05:33:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/23-i18n-minutes.html xfq 05:34:24 fantasai: is that something we can pull from a database? 05:34:57 r12a: there's a Unicode data file, the main one 05:35:08 ... and you can distill the information from it 05:36:00 fantasai: from a person like spec editor, I think the easiest thing generally to have something expand out to just identify the code point by number 05:36:28 ... I kind of am not sure listing the character is as necessary 05:36:34 r12a: it depends 05:36:44 ... using the number is one of the possibilities 05:37:11 ... in the case of RLI or no break space @@2 05:37:20 fantasai: it should be in bdi 05:39:09 fantasai: the bdi element, I think in one of the stylings I had put a background on it so you could actually set it apart from the rest the text 05:39:38 ... for example if you have a full width character vs a half width char, it makes it much easier to see what's actually the difference 05:39:55 r12a: it didn't look good and not useful for the majority of cases 05:40:17 ... andif you use an image you don't need that anyway 05:40:33 fantasai: I'll take a look again at the latest version 05:40:56 ... major thing I think is there should be a space 05:41:20 Topic: Encourage CSS to make some edits 05:41:26 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5478 05:42:17 r12a: as far as I can tell, this is just a question of some editing 05:42:24 ... which I didn't think was problematic 05:43:16 ... I don't think this should take very long 05:43:26 ... it will make things a lot easier 05:43:54 action: fantasai to make the edits of CSS #5478 05:44:02 Created -> action #35 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/35 05:46:00 https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8914#issuecomment-1651137267 05:50:13 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/27 05:51:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/23-i18n-minutes.html fantasai 05:51:33 close #27 05:51:35 Closed -> action #27 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/27 05:53:56 https://www.w3.org/2023/06/28-i18n-minutes.html#t02 05:54:32 https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1277 05:54:42 https://www.w3.org/2023/06/28-i18n-minutes.html#t02 06:48:50 r12a has joined #i18n 07:42:56 Zakim has left #i18n 07:50:34 rrsagent, make minutes 07:50:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/23-i18n-minutes.html xfq 09:06:11 xfq has joined #i18n 09:06:19 r12a-again has joined #i18n 09:11:23 xfq_ has joined #i18n 09:14:55 r12a has joined #i18n 09:45:15 xfq_ has joined #i18n 10:53:08 xfq_ has joined #i18n 12:51:26 RenoirBoulanger has left #i18n 13:07:43 xfq_ has joined #i18n 13:12:08 xfq_ has joined #i18n 13:19:14 xfq_ has joined #i18n 13:50:54 xfq_ has joined #i18n 13:56:32 xfq_ has joined #i18n 14:05:37 xfq_ has joined #i18n 14:19:21 xfq_ has joined #i18n