12:50:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-motion
12:50:45 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/08/21-wcag3-motion-irc
12:51:05 <Eric_hind> zakim, start meeting
12:51:05 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:51:07 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Eric_hind
12:51:30 <Eric_hind> meeting name: Harm from motion subgroup meeting 5
12:51:46 <Eric_hind> rrsagent, make logs world
12:52:09 <Eric_hind> chair: Eric_hind
12:52:25 <Eric_hind> agenda+ find a volunteer to scribe
12:52:36 <Eric_hind> agenda+ List out all possible outcomes - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jCOE4cO68V-QUiZEhJNkrQydNmW71ljaCGGu2Zmnlok/edit#heading=h.zeaz573vpb8t
12:52:47 <Eric_hind> agenda+ group outcomes thematically
12:52:58 <Eric_hind> agenda+ assign individual outcomes to members for further definition
12:53:11 <Eric_hind> agenda+ review Rain’s deck to share our work with AG - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1fIJz7D312pOFImzKVCM9eTvQP8w0drJlf0td-xw6eOs/edit?usp=sharing
12:54:48 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #wcag3-motion
12:57:49 <jeanne> scribe: jeanne
12:58:07 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
12:58:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/21-wcag3-motion-minutes.html jeanne
12:58:15 <Eric_hind> present+
12:58:19 <jeanne> present+
12:58:45 <jeanne> meeting: WCAG3 Harm from Motion Subgroup
12:59:00 <tburtin> tburtin has joined #wcag3-motion
12:59:14 <jedi> present+
13:01:54 <alastairc> present+
13:02:09 <sheribyrne> sheribyrne has joined #wcag3-motion
13:02:12 <sheribyrne> present+
13:02:33 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #wcag3-motion
13:02:42 <Makoto> present+
13:03:00 <jeanne> regrets: Rain
13:03:28 <jeanne> present+ tburtin
13:05:07 <Eric_hind> zakim, take up item 1
13:05:07 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- find a volunteer to scribe -- taken up [from Eric_hind]
13:05:18 <Eric_hind> zakim, take up item 2
13:05:18 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- List out all possible outcomes - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jCOE4cO68V-QUiZEhJNkrQydNmW71ljaCGGu2Zmnlok/edit#heading=h.zeaz573vpb8t -- taken up [from
13:05:21 <Zakim> ... Eric_hind]
13:05:23 <jeanne> Eric: reviews agenda
13:07:08 <Eric_hind> q?
13:07:20 <jeanne> ... accepted suggestions for rewording
13:07:22 <jeanne> q+
13:09:09 <Eric_hind> ack next
13:09:29 <jeanne> jeanne: I didn't finish reviewing the user needs to make sure each one has an outcome.  I will work on that more.
13:09:49 <jeanne> ... there is some overlap which could be clarified in the grouping.
13:10:48 <jeanne> Eric: I encourage everyone to review the outcomes,  We can identify gaps once we group them.
13:12:36 <jeanne> Sheri: Is the list of triggers complete?  I don't see optical illusions.
13:13:06 <jeanne> jeanne: I copied it from a user need because I thought it was useful.  It is not complete, so please add to it.
13:13:19 <Eric_hind> q?
13:14:04 <jeanne> Sheri: There is also a problem when text is written in a different orientation, like tabs that are written perpendicular to the main text of the page.  They require head movement that can cause harm.
13:14:32 <jeanne> Eric: Sheri, do you want to add Optical Illusions to the list of Triggers.
13:14:36 <jeanne> Sheri: yes
13:17:25 <Eric_hind> q?
13:17:40 <jeanne> Alastair: Is this list of triggers part of an outcome?  If so, it needs to be phrased as an outcome.
13:18:10 <jeanne> jeanne:  I wasn't thinking of it as an outcome -- maybe a checklist of what needs to be covered, or perhaps used in a definition.
13:18:31 <jeanne> Sheri: What is a dicohotic audio pattern?
13:20:05 <jeanne> Jedi: It is a difference in the patterns heard between left and right ear.  Extremes of difference can cause problems with orientation in some people.
13:21:41 <alastairc> Sounds a bit like vestibular disoders but for audio instead of visuals.
13:22:14 <jeanne> ... comprehension between the left and right ear can make it seem like the space is changing and cause problems with comprehension because words can merge when different words are heard from left and right.
13:23:40 <Eric_hind> q?
13:23:54 <jeanne> agenda?
13:24:09 <Eric_hind> zakim, take up item 3
13:24:09 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- group outcomes thematically -- taken up [from Eric_hind]
13:24:10 <jeanne> zakim, close item 1
13:24:11 <Zakim> agendum 1, find a volunteer to scribe, closed
13:24:11 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:24:11 <Zakim> 2. List out all possible outcomes - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jCOE4cO68V-QUiZEhJNkrQydNmW71ljaCGGu2Zmnlok/edit#heading=h.zeaz573vpb8t [from Eric_hind]
13:24:15 <jeanne> zakim, close item 2
13:24:15 <Zakim> agendum 2, List out all possible outcomes - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jCOE4cO68V-QUiZEhJNkrQydNmW71ljaCGGu2Zmnlok/edit#heading=h.zeaz573vpb8t, closed
13:24:18 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:24:18 <Zakim> 3. group outcomes thematically [from Eric_hind]
13:24:21 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 3
13:24:21 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- group outcomes thematically -- taken up [from Eric_hind]
13:25:00 <jeanne> The example list of themes <- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jCOE4cO68V-QUiZEhJNkrQydNmW71ljaCGGu2Zmnlok/edit#heading=h.mq4drqaegtzh
13:25:27 <Eric_hind> q?
13:27:57 <jeanne> jeanne: I like the list, but it seems more like a list of techniques or methods.  I would like to see the groups oriented by user needs.
13:28:13 <jeanne> Eric: that makes sense, lets create the categories.
13:28:29 <Eric_hind> q?
13:30:35 <Eric_hind> q?
13:31:57 <jeanne> alastair: Shouldn't the groups be more about what what the author should use?
13:32:34 <jeanne> jeanne: I think alastair is right.  The groupings should be more oriented twoard the solution.
13:32:42 <Eric_hind> q?
13:32:43 <jeanne> q+ to say grouping?
13:32:57 <Eric_hind> ack next
13:32:58 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say grouping?
13:35:13 <jeanne> jeanne: The writing process team didn't expect grouping, so what is the purpose of grouping?
13:35:34 <jeanne> Eric: I think it is so people can work on things offline.
13:35:53 <Eric_hind> q?
13:36:42 <jeanne> jeanne: The writing process continues to evolve and if we need groupings we can add them.  One guidleine group had 23 outcomes and grouped them by user need so that they were easier to understand.
13:37:25 <jeanne> alastair:  I recommend putting a brief description of each outcome under each category so you know that all the outcomes have been covered.
13:37:31 <Eric_hind> q?
13:38:33 <jeanne> [group writes grouping in the doc]
13:39:38 <jeanne> tburtin: +Sheri, also graphic stills like the old zig zag disability pride flag
13:39:56 <jeanne> tburtin: Have we addressed any issues with Auto playing content?
13:39:59 <Eric_hind> zakim, take up item 4
13:39:59 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- assign individual outcomes to members for further definition -- taken up [from Eric_hind]
13:40:16 <jeanne> Sheri: I think it inclused in pseudo-motion
13:40:41 <Eric_hind> q?
13:41:18 <jeanne> s/inclused in pseudo-motion/included in visual animation
13:41:27 <Eric_hind> q?
13:41:50 <jeanne> group takes assignments for off-line work:
13:41:57 <Eric_hind> q?
13:42:05 <jeanne> Alistair takes Visual Animation
13:42:16 <jeanne> Jedi takes Audio animation
13:42:29 <jeanne> Makoto takes Flashing
13:42:40 <jeanne> Sheri takes Pseudo motion
13:42:56 <jeanne> Tiffany takes Users don't need to move
13:43:44 <Eric_hind> q?
13:44:32 <Eric_hind> q?
13:44:55 <Eric_hind> zakim, take up item 5
13:44:55 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- review Rain’s deck to share our work with AG - https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1fIJz7D312pOFImzKVCM9eTvQP8w0drJlf0td-xw6eOs/edit?usp=sharing -- taken up [from
13:44:58 <Zakim> ... Eric_hind]
13:46:55 <Eric_hind> q?
13:51:17 <jeanne> jeanne: Have we adequetely covered pseudo motion in the Functional needs slide (slide 2)?
13:51:47 <jeanne> Sheri: add it to the functional needs for Use with neurological sensitivity to motion or pseudo motion
13:52:13 <Eric_hind> ?
13:52:13 <jeanne> Sheri: Change bullet to Use with photosensitivity (flashing or dark/light mode)
13:52:17 <Eric_hind> q?
13:55:02 <jeanne> Sheri: Use without requiring physical movement that cannot be acvomplished without use of assitive technically (turning your head to read vertical text)
13:58:11 <Eric_hind> q?
14:00:03 <Eric_hind> q?
14:03:54 <jeanne> Discussion of whether or not to add a new guideline for pseudo-motion
14:07:39 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:07:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/21-wcag3-motion-minutes.html jeanne
14:37:09 <jeanne> zakim, end meeting
14:37:09 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Eric_hind, jeanne, jedi, alastairc, sheribyrne, Makoto, tburtin
14:37:11 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:37:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/21-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Zakim
14:37:17 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jeanne; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:37:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag3-motion
14:37:36 <jeanne> rrsagent, bye
14:37:36 <RRSAgent> I see no action items