16:00:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:00:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-irc
16:00:59 <Adrian> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/931e4e54-81ad-4aa3-a39f-84efe4b788c7/20230817T120000/
16:01:00 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:01:00 <agendabot> agenda+ Scribe: Haudebourg, Timothée (alternate: Hartig, Olaf)
16:01:00 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of last week's minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/08/10-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:01:00 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
16:01:01 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
16:01:04 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
16:02:13 <gkellogg> present+
16:02:22 <Adrian> Present+
16:02:34 <ora> present+
16:02:35 <Adrian> Zakim, draft minutes
16:02:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'draft minutes', Adrian
16:02:52 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
16:02:58 <Adrian> Zakim, help
16:02:59 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
16:02:59 <gkellogg> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html gkellogg
16:03:02 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:
16:03:02 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
16:03:02 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
16:03:02 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
16:03:02 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
16:03:02 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
16:03:02 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
16:03:02 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone
16:03:02 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted
16:03:02 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
16:03:02 <Tpt> present+
16:03:03 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
16:03:04 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
16:03:06 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences
16:03:07 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx
16:03:07 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel
16:03:08 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2020/12/31 21:20:53 $
16:03:08 <Adrian> Argh, every time ;)
16:03:46 <TallTed> present+
16:04:14 <AndyS> present+
16:04:35 <Adrian> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:05:01 <Adrian> Regrets+ pfps
16:06:12 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:06:18 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdf-star
16:06:55 <olaf> present+
16:07:08 <niklasl> present+
16:07:24 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
16:07:24 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:07:29 <Souri> present+
16:07:30 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
16:07:36 <doerthe> present+
16:07:39 <Adrian> Scribe: olaf
16:08:04 <TallTed> Zakim, open agendum 1
16:08:04 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe: Haudebourg, Timothée (alternate: Hartig, Olaf) -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:08:06 <olaf> draggett: pchampin is on vacation
16:08:16 <Adrian> Regret+ pchampin
16:08:16 <TallTed> Zakim, close agendum 1
16:08:16 <Zakim> agendum 1, Scribe: Haudebourg, Timothée (alternate: Hartig, Olaf), closed
16:08:18 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:08:18 <Zakim> 2. Approval of last week's minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/08/10-rdf-star-minutes.html [from agendabot]
16:08:26 <TallTed> Zakim, open agendum 2
16:08:26 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Approval of last week's minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/08/10-rdf-star-minutes.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:09:32 <olaf> ktk: started doing my part for the "what still needs to be done"
16:09:44 <olaf> ... but not yet read for ''prime time''
16:09:50 <olaf> s/read/ready
16:10:14 <olaf> ora: ktk and I will be collecting items for such a list
16:10:30 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:10:46 <olaf> ... generally, we are at a point where we should start backwards from such a list
16:10:47 <Adrian> PROPOSAL: Accept last week’s minutes
16:10:53 <gkellogg> +1
16:10:59 <olaf> ... the github issues list is a start
16:10:59 <TallTed> +1
16:11:12 <gkellogg> q?
16:11:23 <Tpt> +1
16:11:29 <AndyS> +1
16:11:29 <ora> +1
16:11:29 <niklasl> +1
16:11:31 <AndyS> +1
16:11:33 <Adrian> +1
16:11:42 <olaf> +1
16:12:21 <Adrian> RESOLUTION: Accept last week’s minutes
16:12:41 <TallTed> Zakim, next agendum
16:12:42 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:13:04 <olaf> ora: I have not made progress on my open action
16:13:14 <olaf> gkellogg: I have two
16:13:39 <olaf> ... I have created the use case, the link to it is in the issue
16:13:59 <olaf> ... one of the two action issues is a duplicate of the other
16:14:14 <Souri> The above link returns 404 for me
16:14:17 <olaf> ora: I don't think we can discuss any of the other action items today
16:14:35 <olaf> ... b/c they are on pchampin
16:14:46 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:14:47 <TallTed> Zakim, next agendum
16:14:47 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review of pull requests, available at -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:15:11 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:15:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:15:19 <olaf> ktk: ora and I talked about it
16:15:33 <olaf> ... we would like to find one of you to take care of some of the never-ending issues
16:15:42 <olaf> ... such as the one about the mobile layout
16:16:19 <olaf> ... Question is: could someone do this job?
16:16:53 <TallTed> i|ora and I talked about it|subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/pull/30
16:16:55 <olaf> ora: It is an editors' job
16:17:06 <olaf> ... but one that spans all documents
16:17:08 <gkellogg> q+
16:17:15 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:17:19 <olaf> ... It would be great if someone takes this.
16:17:19 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:17:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:17:43 <olaf> gkellogg: I think what Tomas has done is great.
16:17:57 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:18:13 <olaf> ... We just need a mechanism such that "it" (?) doesn't turn into a roadblock when there is a rejection
16:18:41 <olaf> ... Some specs have some styling consideration that is beyond boiler plate (e.g., SPARQL query)
16:19:14 <olaf> ... maybe we should focus on a PC screen and do a best effort for mobile
16:19:19 <Adrian> S/… We just/gkellog: We just/
16:20:08 <olaf> ora: some of these specs are so complex that reading them on a mobile screen in a pleasant way is probably not possible
16:20:30 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:20:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:20:41 <olaf> s/Tomas/Domenic
16:20:56 <olaf> ktk: shall we ask him to take this job?
16:21:25 <olaf> gkellogg: other long-running issue is base direction
16:21:26 <TallTed> s|S/… We just/gkellog: We just/||
16:21:26 <TallTed> s/... We just/gkellog: We just/
16:21:45 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:21:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:21:54 <olaf> ... we cannot do anythig about it today because "they" (?) have not come back to us about it
16:22:06 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:22:08 <ora> q+
16:22:24 <ora> ack ora
16:22:30 <olaf> ... other open issue is IRI-related language
16:23:03 <olaf> ora: It would be great for the issues dashboard to see how long each issue has been open
16:23:25 <AndyS> q+
16:23:27 <olaf> gkellogg: I think it is a partial order in this list
16:23:27 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:23:44 <olaf> ora: there are two editorial PRs
16:24:03 <olaf> ... have been there for more than a week?
16:24:37 <olaf> ... Andy, what did you request for the IRI spec?
16:24:57 <olaf> AndyS: The IRI spec has some counter-intuitive language
16:25:10 <olaf> ... the IRI spec is basically wrong
16:25:21 <olaf> ... we should avoid the word "absolute"
16:25:49 <TallTed> "absolute reference"?
16:25:52 <olaf> ... The language that we / the community have used is all over the place.
16:26:17 <olaf> gkellogg: I believe your concern was addressed in the text! ?
16:26:48 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:27:20 <olaf> AndyS: The IRI spec didn't update is language after the changes of the URI spec, but it also didn't get much attention.
16:27:25 <Adrian> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:27:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html Adrian
16:27:43 <olaf> ... I will try to find some time in the next few days to look at this issue/PR again
16:28:03 <olaf> ... Greg, did you make changes to other docs in this context?
16:28:28 <gtw> s/Greg/Gregg/
16:28:33 <olaf> gkellogg: No. But it is probably worth scanning through them.
16:28:43 <olaf> ... I will do that.
16:29:07 <Adrian> Chair: ora
16:29:34 <olaf> ora: What's our status regarding the DOM references?
16:29:42 <olaf> gkellogg: ready to go
16:30:14 <olaf> ... we were just waiting for 2+ weeks because it is a substantial change
16:30:34 <olaf> ... but now it has been open long enough
16:30:42 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:30:42 <olaf> ... so, I will merge it
16:31:02 <ora> q?
16:31:07 <ora> ack AndyS
16:31:14 <TallTed> Zakim, next agendum
16:31:14 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:31:48 <olaf> AndyS: regarding the mobile-related issue, probably one of the tables in the SPARQL spec is a special case
16:31:53 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:31:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:32:00 <olaf> ... the one about the operator mapping; it is huge
16:32:29 <TallTed> huh... I thought AOB would follow open issues (https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5)
16:32:48 <olaf> ora: Looking at the SPARQL spec, why do the read queries allow a VALUES clause to be added to the query, but not the update queries?
16:32:55 <olaf> AndyS: rationale is
16:33:12 <olaf> ... there was a lot of work on query federation
16:33:36 <olaf> ... there was a system called Garlic, which had notion of bind join implemented
16:33:47 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:34:09 <olaf> ... for which they wanted to use the VALUES clause at the end of the query, but that does not work
16:35:17 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:35:19 <olaf> Adrian: as a user, VALUES always confuses me -- when to use it
16:35:40 <olaf> AndyS: VALUES at the end has a different semantics than VALUES inside WHERE
16:35:45 <gkellogg> q+
16:35:50 <olaf> ... question to ora...
16:35:50 <Adrian> q+
16:36:09 <olaf> ... what about the use cases about your work?
16:36:40 <olaf> ora: We have a use case doc for our 1G project. But most of them do not really apply here.
16:37:15 <olaf> ... I could send short descriptions of them. Then, others can look at them to check whether these ones are already covered.
16:37:20 <Adrian> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:37:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html Adrian
16:38:29 <Adrian> Ack gkellogg
16:38:29 <olaf> ... I will do for our meeting in two weeks from now.
16:38:29 <gkellogg> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/6?filterQuery=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22needs+discussion%22
16:38:29 <olaf> gkellogg: Label on the dashboard for 'needs discussion'
16:39:21 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:39:33 <AndyS> q+
16:39:42 <niklasl> q+
16:39:51 <olaf> ... language tags
16:40:15 <olaf> ora: We should have a discussion about it.
16:40:43 <olaf> ... Does it make sense to have a proposal/writeup of possible choice on how to proceed?
16:41:09 <olaf> ... Case sensitivity of language tags seems like an underspecification.
16:41:18 <ora> q?
16:41:29 <ora> ack AndyS
16:41:31 <olaf> AndyS: There is a SPARQL test relies on language tags.
16:41:41 <TallTed> Project view very much needs to include last-updated and created dates (and be sortable by these, either ascending or descending), maybe @pchampin could research?
16:41:41 <gb> https://github.com/pchampin -> @pchampin
16:41:46 <olaf> ... gives a little bit (but not conclusive) suggestion for a change.
16:41:50 <ora> ack Adrian
16:41:57 <Adrian> Adrian has joined #rdf-star
16:42:03 <olaf> ktk: Who joins us in Sevilla for TPAC?
16:42:10 <olaf> AndyS: Cannot
16:42:18 <olaf> ora: I will be there.
16:42:27 <olaf> gkellogg: I will be there on Zoom.
16:42:29 <ora> ack niklasl
16:42:42 <draggett> I have a conflicting meeting in Munich, sorry.
16:42:42 <olaf> niklasl: I had thought on the lang.tag question
16:42:52 <olaf> ... or normalization in general
16:43:11 <olaf> Where is the line drawn between ... (?)
16:43:49 <olaf> ... is there something more generally to be said about it -- related to entailments
16:44:00 <olaf> s/it/it?
16:44:32 <olaf> ora: Are you suggesting something like the datatype entailment but for languages?
16:44:34 <AndyS> q+
16:44:36 <gkellogg> q+
16:44:46 <TallTed> q+ to ask about reviewing Open Issues (anticipated to precede AOB)... future Agendas might need correction
16:44:49 <olaf> niklasl: Yes, I think I do :-)
16:45:54 <ora> ack AndyS
16:46:16 <olaf> AndyS: The semantics doc has an entailment for language tags, namely D-Entailment
16:46:38 <olaf> ... but we need to put this elsewhere
16:46:44 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:47:10 <olaf> gkellogg: Yes we need to clarifying the question.
16:47:28 <olaf> ... Not doing it would violate the ... (?) spec
16:47:55 <olaf> ... Language tag is not quoted but it is a token.
16:48:36 <Tpo> Tpo has joined #RDF-star
16:48:37 <olaf> ... Later we can talk about, what is the canonical form of a lang.tag.
16:48:56 <olaf> niklasl: Yes, what Gregg suggested makes sense and is a reasonable scope.
16:50:03 <ora> ack TallTed
16:50:03 <Zakim> TallTed, you wanted to ask about reviewing Open Issues (anticipated to precede AOB)... future Agendas might need correction
16:50:03 <olaf> ... (I am trying to write down something about "structured literals")
16:50:08 <ora> q+
16:50:14 <AndyS> The SPARQL test is strlang03.rq
16:50:32 <olaf> TallTed: For the future, add to the agenda to review open issues
16:51:03 <olaf> ... because otherwise we keep accumulating them
16:51:36 <ora> ack ora
16:52:33 <TallTed> maybe start by giving us a prepublication link for review/comment?
16:54:18 <gkellogg> Consider GeoRDF: https://www.w3.org/wiki/GeoRDF
16:54:31 <olaf> TallTed, I still need to get approval from Legal for making the repo with the material public
16:54:47 <AndyS> s/strlang03.rq/directory functions, strlang03-rdf11
16:55:18 <draggett> present+
16:55:41 <ktk> TallTed: minutes look ok for me so far
16:55:50 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:55:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:56:09 <olaf> Anyone still here in IRC? What do I need to do regarding the scribing?
16:56:24 <ktk> olaf: we will close it thanks
16:56:35 <olaf> Thanks!!
16:56:35 <olaf> Bye
16:56:49 <ktk> TallTed: we don't have a title yet it seems
16:57:07 <ktk> bye olaf
16:57:11 <TallTed> meeting: RDF-star Working Group Weekly Call
16:57:16 <ktk> tnx
16:57:30 <ktk> no problem, thanks
16:57:34 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:57:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:57:42 <niklasl> @gkellogg Yes, GeoRDF is a perfect example of datatyped-string <-> entity "isomorphism. Also, common "simple" xsd:date value have multiple properties, "conceptually".
16:57:42 <gb> https://github.com/gkellogg -> @gkellogg
16:58:30 <TallTed> we can leave the rest for pchampin to clean up offline  :-)
16:58:39 <TallTed> Zakim, end meeting
16:58:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been gkellogg, Adrian, ora, Tpt, TallTed, AndyS, olaf, niklasl, Souri, doerthe, draggett
16:58:40 <ktk> yes looks good
16:58:42 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:58:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/17-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
16:58:50 <ktk> tnx
16:58:50 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, TallTed; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:58:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
16:58:55 <TallTed> RRSAgent, bye
16:58:55 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
<pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/08/10-rdf-star-minutes.html
<pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/08/24-rdf-star-minutes.html