12:54:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #epub-fxl
12:54:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/08/08-epub-fxl-irc
12:54:56 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:54:57 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), wendyreid
12:57:09 <wendyreid> meeting: FXL Accessibility Task Force
12:57:18 <wendyreid> date: 2023-08-08
12:57:22 <wendyreid> chair: wendyreid
12:57:44 <gautier> gautier has joined #epub-fxl
13:01:21 <Naomi> Naomi has joined #epub-fxl
13:01:33 <wendyreid> present+
13:01:39 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #EPUB-FXL
13:02:08 <gautier> present+
13:02:40 <wendyreid> regrets+ Sue
13:03:49 <gautier> scribe+
13:04:01 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NUaO5gvboK23ssvj-j2bcJ_I8AQyN9wr1qcjzuQFXgg/edit
13:04:35 <gautier> @Wendyreid: let's talk about the document we started
13:05:13 <wendyreid> scribe+
13:05:59 <wendyreid> gautier: Added some comments on issue 60, the list of solutions we have discussed, not sure if this is the right place for it.
13:06:16 <CharlesL> present+
13:06:23 <wendyreid> ... I think this should happen in the issue tracker, but nothing is updating there, so I moved it here
13:06:27 <Naomi> present+
13:06:29 <wendyreid> ... want more than my insight
13:06:36 <wendyreid> ... it's at the very end of the document
13:06:49 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NUaO5gvboK23ssvj-j2bcJ_I8AQyN9wr1qcjzuQFXgg/edit#heading=h.h3t8volzdsel
13:07:18 <wendyreid> gautier: Fallbacks and Hybrid EPUBs, but we should add more information on any of the listed methods
13:07:22 <wendyreid> ... feel free to add to it
13:08:22 <gautier> @wendyreid: i would like to see discussions in the issue.
13:09:06 <wendyreid> gautier: I can comment a bit more on the methods
13:09:37 <wendyreid> ... I'm pretty sure it's crucial for us at EDRLab, depending on the method that's adopted, we'll need to decide how it looks in the reading system
13:10:11 <wendyreid> ... I'm thinking that we may end up with different methods, depending on the type of book published
13:10:27 <wendyreid> ... we'll see quick solutions, some that will be implemented, but others that need more time
13:10:53 <wendyreid> ... French Publishers Association, fallbacks are working, but no switch
13:11:09 <wendyreid> ... if the reading system accepts FXL, there is no means to display reflowable content
13:11:34 <wendyreid> ... so fallbacks are already used for other content, like audio, but they don't have a display
13:11:51 <wendyreid> ... but I'm not sure if it's a good option to have a fallback switch in a reading system
13:12:05 <wendyreid> ... the next one is the hybrid solution
13:12:21 <wendyreid> ... Vincent Gros from Hachette presented on this, they're already trying it
13:12:31 <wendyreid> ... seeing what happens in the market
13:12:38 <wendyreid> ... two main solutions out there today
13:12:48 <wendyreid> ... only thing missing for an experience is a switch of some kinds
13:13:16 <wendyreid> ... the other solutions are more technically advanced, which will take more time to implement
13:16:50 <wendyreid> gautier: JS in files is possible, but it's quite challenging
13:16:59 <wendyreid> ... seen some demos
13:17:17 <wendyreid> ... can see different images or layouts
13:17:34 <wendyreid> ... people complain about making it work in any reading system
13:19:19 <gautier> Naomi: that's what we do, JS on files and we just accept that some reatilers and RS don't accept it. It's not ideal.
13:22:04 <gautier> @wendyreid: background on JS in epub: security and privaty review of W3C process runs flags. A lot of poor scripts complexify the job of RS rendering. CSS interactivity is now a much better option. Also, is JS really viable in an accessibility perspective?
13:23:19 <gautier> q+
13:23:28 <gautier> Naomi: it's interesting way of moving forward.
13:24:14 <wendyreid> ack gautier
13:24:46 <wendyreid> gautier: One issue I hear when I listen to Naomi, training, how do we teach publishers to do this
13:25:11 <wendyreid> ... in house workflows already work, existing code already works, making changes to that is challenging
13:25:26 <wendyreid> ... that's what I see as a challenge with adding reflow into FXL too
13:25:42 <wendyreid> ... one responsibility we have is recommending things for now, and for the future
13:25:55 <wendyreid> ... what will people learn as they begin producing new books
13:26:00 <wendyreid> ... new technologies into the future
13:28:11 <gautier> Naomi: yes, also about tool developement. Testing takes a lot of time. From our perspective, we should set up a limited set of property tested and validated. Content still need to be available without for exemple css animations.
13:29:43 <gautier> @wendyreid: i agree we should test everything we recommand. Also WCAG always goes on top of our recomandations.  W3C recommandation request for everything to be testable.
13:29:58 <gautier> Naomi: we need the retailers to do testing too.
13:31:46 <gautier> @wendyreid: I would add, if things do'n exist we can make that happen because inside w3c we have css wg and a lot of wg.
13:33:35 <CharlesL> q+
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13:34:04 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
13:35:48 <gautier> CharlesL: back in the nineteen working with diagram center, we used javascript to display extended descriptions in movable popups. I wonder how this could be done in CSS (presenting examples on the shared screen)
13:36:56 <gautier> @wendyreid: I hope that CSS might look less scray than JS for some people.
13:37:33 <gautier> @wendyreid: would anyone want  to take the task of experimenting with CSS?
13:38:41 <CharlesL> I will be at TPAC
13:38:52 <gautier> @wendyreid: PCG will meet in TPAC.
13:38:54 <wendyreid> https://github.com/w3c/pm-wg/issues/4
13:38:57 <gautier> I will too :)
13:40:12 <wendyreid> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/registration.html
13:41:37 <wendyreid> zakim, end meeting
13:41:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been wendyreid, gautier, CharlesL, Naomi
13:41:39 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:41:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/08-epub-fxl-minutes.html Zakim
13:41:49 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, wendyreid; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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13:47:43 <wendyreid> rrsagent, bye
13:47:43 <RRSAgent> I see no action items