12:54:45 RRSAgent has joined #wcag3-motion 12:54:49 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/08/07-wcag3-motion-irc 12:54:52 zakim, start meeting 12:54:52 RRSAgent, make logs Public 12:54:53 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Rain 12:55:58 agenda+ Set up scribe 12:56:22 meeting: Harm from motion subgroup 12:56:39 agenda? 12:57:01 agenda+ Review the functional needs, user stories, and document reviews that were done during the pre-work 12:57:13 Draft desired outcomes based on the functional needs and user stories exercises 12:57:30 chair: Rain 12:57:41 agenda? 12:57:56 agenda+ Draft desired outcomes based on the functional needs and user stories exercises 12:57:58 agenda? 13:01:21 Eric_hind has joined #wcag3-motion 13:01:56 +present 13:02:12 present+ 13:04:28 sheribyrne has joined #WCAG3-motion 13:04:29 murray_moss has joined #wcag3-motion 13:04:34 present+ 13:04:35 present+ 13:05:23 meeting agenda document is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jCOE4cO68V-QUiZEhJNkrQydNmW71ljaCGGu2Zmnlok/edit#heading=h.vs0pihxwmy30 13:05:26 present+ 13:05:37 present+ Eric_hind 13:06:26 jeanne has joined #wcag3-motion 13:06:31 AndySomers has joined #wcag3-motion 13:06:32 present+ 13:06:33 regrets+ Makoto 13:06:38 present+ 13:06:47 zakim, take up item 1 13:06:47 agendum 1 -- Set up scribe -- taken up [from Rain] 13:07:16 scribe: Eric_hind 13:08:29 zakim, take up item 2 13:08:29 agendum 2 -- Review the functional needs, user stories, and document reviews that were done during the pre-work -- taken up [from Rain] 13:09:21 my apologies, I'll be right back 13:09:25 I hit the wrong button 13:09:46 first order was to take a look at the functional needs section of the scratch document, 13:09:52 so if you want to head there, I'll be back in a moment! 13:10:20 jeanne2 has joined #wcag3-motion 13:12:09 q+ 13:12:19 Rain: Will add/create functional needs in the scratchpad 13:12:55 q- 13:14:22 q+ 13:15:09 q- 13:15:27 Rain: per conversation with Sheri, add outcome of Safety from looping animation 13:15:49 q+ 13:15:57 q- 13:16:33 Rain: Additionally, add outcome related to pseduo-motion/flashing safety 13:19:03 q+ 13:19:08 physical or psychophysical 13:19:30 Rain: Functional Need added: User safety even with neurological sensitivity to motion 13:20:53 Rain: Functional Need added: Added Jedi 13:21:01 ack jedi 13:21:26 Rain: Functional Need added, Jedi FAST comments. 13:22:52 Rain: Sheri asked to add motion sickness directly as a specific point; will expand the list at this time. 13:24:52 +1 to Rain's safety addition 13:24:52 Rain: Functional Need added, Be able to complete a critical flow without unintentional redirection (e.g. site redirection before submit of a task) 13:25:06 +1 as well 13:25:07 q+ 13:25:10 dark patterns 13:25:34 ack sheribyrne 13:25:47 q+ 13:25:57 q+ to say that we should not be constrained by FAST 13:27:10 ack AndySomers 13:27:42 +1 to sheribyrne on removing higher level categorization for now 13:28:03 Sheri: Request to avoid high level categorization (for now) to allow better differentiation 13:30:48 Andrew: add Functional Needs related to harm as related their ability to do things effectively (compared to harm as an singular negative event) 13:32:03 Rain: As related to Andrew's comment; added visual fatigue 13:32:45 q? 13:32:51 ack jeanne 13:32:51 jeanne, you wanted to say that we should not be constrained by FAST 13:33:09 Do we develop this as a harm category (general) as opposed to harm from motion 13:33:50 q? 13:34:42 Eric_hind_ has joined #wcag3-motion 13:35:05 scribe+ 13:35:28 +1 able to takebreak 13:35:32 q+ 13:35:37 ack sheribyrne 13:35:54 Rain: Functional need, complete a critical flow without experiencing visual fatigue 13:36:04 q+ 13:36:10 some people need motion 13:36:45 Sheri: Add motion personalization, be confident that motion personalization will be respected 13:37:46 Rain: Functional Need add: Some people will rely on motion 13:38:50 haptics? 13:39:01 Rain: Q to Jeanne, this is limited to visual landscape? 13:39:48 Jeanne: Initially, that was mandate but there isn't a mandate and this should be moved as a new guideline 13:40:18 Rain: Haptics, such as pain from device vibration 13:41:13 q+ 13:41:57 ack murray_moss 13:42:02 Rain: Audio: such as disorientating spatial effects (doppler, left to right channel, sound like it's behind creating triggers, localizing sound) 13:42:40 q- 13:42:48 Murray: Binaural audio could also be added under Audio 13:42:57 ack AndySomers 13:44:34 q+ 13:44:44 q+ to talk about common vs unique user needs 13:44:56 +1 to Murray on Binaural audio, plus "dichotic listening" 13:45:51 Andy: Q to add General Harm category? (per parallels with other groups) 13:46:48 Rain: For now, we may need to stick to our more specific scope (more granular) 13:46:52 +1 to AndySomers on involuntary movement reaction 13:46:59 q? 13:47:21 ack jeanne 13:47:21 jeanne, you wanted to talk about common vs unique user needs 13:47:21 ack jea 13:47:31 ack sheribyrne 13:47:32 Jeanne: Later in process, we want to identify common issues, and those that oppose or are inconsistent 13:48:04 personalization is the holy grail of accessibility 13:48:06 +1 as important to track topics that need personalization 13:48:14 +1 13:48:29 +1 13:48:37 +1 13:48:44 q? 13:51:15 q+ 13:51:34 ack sheribyrne 13:52:13 Sheri: Per 2.4.3, we should add auditory organizational memory (if including sound) 13:52:31 ack? 13:53:01 Auditory: I hear language in a musical way, it interferes with language 13:54:27 Rain: Under 2.4.3; internal cognitive mapping can be interfered with by motion; how can this be broken down into functional needs. 13:54:30 motion does not change relative orientation and placement of objects 13:55:08 or, motion does not change arrangements of itmems 13:55:08 q? 13:55:14 Rain: Jedi recommendation, graphical memory 13:55:44 Rain: Add per Andy, Use without motion changing the arrangement or focus order 13:56:58 Rain: Example added to 2.4.4.1 Limited short term memory: use without having to remember something that goes away as a result of motin 13:57:32 q+ 13:57:39 ack AndySomers 13:58:48 Andy: Add under 2.4.7 Cogntivie and sensory intersection; use with the ability to only see something when it is still 13:59:45 Rain: All should review and feel comfortable to review the functional needs list; add any functional need that you might think would be missing. 14:00:06 +1 14:00:12 +1 14:00:15 +1 14:00:16 +1 14:00:17 q? 14:00:56 Rain: Will update text to plain language 14:01:14 zakim, make minutes 14:01:14 I don't understand 'make minutes', Rain 14:01:18 zakim: make minutes 14:01:26 rrsagent, make minutes 14:01:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/07-wcag3-motion-minutes.html jeanne2 14:01:44 * thanks jeanne2 14:02:27 zakim, take up item 3 14:02:27 agendum 3 -- Draft desired outcomes based on the functional needs and user stories exercises -- taken up [from Rain] 14:02:36 We will be working on item 3 next week 14:02:45 rrsagent, make minutes 14:02:46 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/07-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Rain 14:02:56 * aw, thank you jeanne2 ! 14:03:03 zakim, end meeting 14:03:03 As of this point the attendees have been present, jedi, sheribyrne, murray_moss, Rain, Eric_hind, jeanne, AndySomers 14:03:05 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 14:03:06 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/08/07-wcag3-motion-minutes.html Zakim 14:03:43 I am happy to have been of service, Rain; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 14:03:43 Zakim has left #wcag3-motion