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14:54:37 <ivan> zakim, start meeting
14:54:37 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:54:39 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), ivan
14:55:03 <ivan> Meeting: Verifiable Credentials Working Group Special Topic Call on JSON Schemas
14:55:03 <ivan> Date: 2023-07-25
14:55:03 <ivan> chair: brent
14:55:03 <ivan> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f6342df0-f7b5-4fc9-babd-61e55dc5fc2f/20230725T110000/
14:55:03 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2023-07-25: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f6342df0-f7b5-4fc9-babd-61e55dc5fc2f/20230725T110000/
14:56:01 <brent> present+
14:56:12 <brent> chair: kristina
14:59:18 <ivan> present+
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15:00:34 <ivan> present+ seabass
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15:01:50 <ivan> present+ TallTed
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15:05:42 <seabass> scribe+
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15:06:08 <ivan> present+ pauld, JoeAndrieu
15:06:24 <manu> q+ to go through VC Data Model PRs.
15:06:34 <kristina> topic: vc-data-model PRs
15:06:35 <kristina> https://irc.w3.org/?channels=vcwg-special
15:06:41 <kristina> ack manu
15:06:41 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to go through VC Data Model PRs.
15:06:43 <manu> https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pulls/
15:06:56 <manu> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/1142
15:07:29 <seabass> manu: Pull request 1142 is waiting for CCG members to review.
15:07:31 <manu> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/1172
15:07:49 <manu> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/1199
15:08:03 <dmitriz> present+
15:08:10 <seabass> manu: 1172 continues to have discussion. There are some disagreements on pull request 1199.
15:08:30 <manu> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/1202
15:09:33 <seabass> manu: 1202 has multiple positive reviews, but has pending requested changes. kristina, will you be able to re-review this week?
15:09:41 <seabass> kristina: I will try.
15:09:42 <manu> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/1203
15:10:48 <seabass> manu: 1203 has all positive reviews, but I will not merge it until others have reviewed it.
15:10:49 <manu> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/1207
15:11:07 <seabass> manu: 1207 will be merged.
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15:12:27 <decentralgabe> present+
15:12:57 <kristina> topic: json schema work item issue
15:12:59 <kristina> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-json-schema/issues/172
15:13:03 <kristina> q?
15:13:04 <seabass> kristina: decentralgabe, are you able to talk here?
15:14:11 <seabass> decentralgabe: Yes. The currently spec defines JSON schema 2023 as well as the credentials schema 2023. The latter just wraps it in a verifiable credential, allowing the provenance of schemas to be verified.
15:14:22 <seabass> s/currently/current/
15:14:23 <manu> q+
15:14:44 <kristina> ack manu
15:15:58 <seabass> manu: The examples had some surprising context values. This made the subject of the verifiable credentials appear to be a plain JSON object rather than JSON-LD data.
15:17:25 <dlongley> +1 to a new property with `@json` because VCDM itself has requirements that JSON schema may not conform to
15:18:08 <seabass> manu: Regarding the decision last meeting about datestamps, which version of JSON Schema applies? It is not clear which would apply.
15:18:41 <dlongley> +1 because JSON schema uses date-based versioning itself there could be confusion
15:18:45 <decentralgabe> q+ to respond
15:19:00 <kristina> ack decentralgabe
15:19:00 <Zakim> decentralgabe, you wanted to respond
15:19:19 <seabass> decentralgabe: I am happy to move the data to a new property where the type is 'json'. As for the versioning, I'm happy to change this as well.
15:19:58 <seabass> decentralgabe: We have a section in the specification about processing, where we say the processors can detect the version of JSON-LD used.
15:20:08 <manu> q+ to ask if conforming implementations need to support all versions of JSON Schema?
15:20:32 <seabass> q+ to ask for background on this
15:20:49 <kristina> ack manu
15:20:49 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask if conforming implementations need to support all versions of JSON Schema?
15:21:38 <ivan> -> JSON Literals in the JSON-LD spec https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11/#json-literals
15:21:43 <seabass> manu: That would address my high-level concerns. The only other concern I have is that sometimes people state the wrong version of JSON Schema. You can't always depend on the metadata.
15:22:11 <seabass> manu: Therefore, we need a conformance test suite to ensure that conforming processors test for the version of the JSON Schema used.
15:23:11 <manu> q+ to agree, we should push a single version, if possible... MAY for other versions.
15:23:17 <manu> scribe+
15:23:23 <ivan> q+ to comment on a side issue in the json schema spec
15:23:27 <seabass> decentralgabe: We should maybe introduce a normative requirement to specify a version of JSON Schema, but I don't think we should require a specific version.
15:23:27 <kristina> ack seabass
15:23:27 <Zakim> seabass, you wanted to ask for background on this
15:23:48 <manu> seabass: Wanted to ask, semantically, what does a JSON Schema VC mean in contrast to JSON Schema published via GPG?
15:24:46 <manu> seabass: so, VCs requiring use of JSON Schema, would allow it to be verified in that ecossytem.
15:24:52 <kristina> ack manu
15:24:52 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to agree, we should push a single version, if possible... MAY for other versions.
15:25:27 <manu> decentralgabe: GPG would be one way to secure a VC, but that's out of scope... there could be other ways to secure JSON Schema that are valid.
15:26:12 <seabass> manu: I wanted to agree with decentralgabe that we should make the normative statement stronger, however, I think we should also require at least one specific version of JSON Schema, and make older version support optional.
15:26:13 <kristina> why require? that does not make sense. compliance to the spec is voluntary
15:26:31 <decentralgabe> decentralgabe: semantically...a vc json schema provides optional validation for as a step in a longer credential validation process
15:26:59 <seabass> manu, kristina, if one version supports 2020 but another supports 2018, they will be unable to understand each other. This will result in an ecosystem that will not be interoperable.
15:27:23 <decentralgabe> q+ to respond to required version
15:28:13 <seabass> manu: If we remove the version specifier, though, we'll be locked in to that JSON Schema version forever. We could introduce language require parsing the version identifier.
15:28:24 <kristina> ack ivan
15:28:24 <Zakim> ivan, you wanted to comment on a side issue in the json schema spec
15:28:27 <ivan> -> "Towards a stable JSON Schema" https://json-schema.org/blog/posts/future-of-json-schema
15:28:31 <seabass> s/require/to require/
15:28:57 <seabass> ivan: There is a blog post in the JSON Schema website which may resolve the issue of version incompatibilities.
15:29:29 <seabass> ivan: It may well be that by the time we go to REC, the issue might have disappeared.
15:30:50 <seabass> ivan: The one which is currently referred to in all the text is JSON Schema 2020.
15:30:55 <kristina> ack decentralgabe
15:30:55 <Zakim> decentralgabe, you wanted to respond to required version
15:31:17 <seabass> decentralgabe: manu, I like the idea of making at least one required and others optional.
15:31:27 <seabass> decentralgabe: I'll open an issue about that.
15:31:40 <seabass> decentralgabe: I don't know when JSON Schema's movements will happen.
15:32:12 <manu> q+ to ask about the CR story and JSON SChema?
15:32:19 <kristina> ack manu
15:32:19 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask about the CR story and JSON SChema?
15:32:50 <seabass> manu: kristina, I think you said we had a path to CR and REC. What is that?
15:33:36 <ivan> q+
15:33:39 <seabass> decentralgabe: It's the OpenJS Foundation specifications that we are allowed to reference normatively.
15:34:01 <seabass> decentralgabe: It was pointed out that normatively referencing IETF drafts is not a good idea.
15:34:22 <ivan> -> Strategy team's relevant issue https://github.com/users/iherman/projects/1?pane=issue&itemId=33299306
15:34:22 <kristina> q?
15:34:23 <ivan> q+
15:34:27 <kristina> ack ivan
15:34:28 <manu> Glad that is finally resolved, after many, many years. :)
15:34:35 <seabass> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wkumari-not-a-draft/
15:34:55 <decentralgabe> here's the link: https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/108
15:35:20 <seabass> ivan: We are not the only ones to have this trouble.
15:36:55 <ivan> Topic: Issue triage
15:38:30 <TallTed> I suggest least-recently-updated https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+-label%3Abefore-CR+-label%3Apost-CR+sort%3Aupdated-asc
15:39:18 <seabass> kristina: Do you need extra time to work on #1196?
15:40:03 <seabass> manu: #1207 will resolve it.
15:40:11 <kristina> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1193
15:40:51 <kristina> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1175
15:41:34 <manu> q+
15:41:51 <kristina> ack manu
15:42:36 <seabass> manu: We have marked the context as 'at risk', so if anything looks like it's going to hold up our CR process it can be removed.
15:43:00 <dlongley> +1 to already addressed
15:43:06 <ivan> q+
15:43:12 <kristina> ack ivan
15:43:14 <pdl_asu> +1 that we have language addressing this already
15:44:14 <manu> We currently have this in the spec:
15:44:16 <manu> ISSUE: (AT RISK) Hash values might change during Candidate Recommendation
15:44:16 <manu> This section lists cryptographic hash values that might change during the Candidate Recommendation phase based on implementer feedback that requires the referenced files to be modified.
15:44:30 <manu> (in the base context section)
15:45:08 <manu> q+
15:45:21 <kristina> ack manu
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15:46:24 <manu> Link to that text is here: https://w3c.github.io/vc-data-model/#base-context
15:47:44 <dlongley> -1 to needing additional language, right now we can modify in any way
15:48:04 <ivan> +1 to dlongley
15:48:26 <dlongley> "can be changed in any way, including removal"
15:48:28 <seabass> manu: I'll take an action item on 1175 to make this more specific.
15:50:14 <kristina> subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/1205
15:50:24 <manu> q+
15:50:55 <kristina> ack manu
15:51:55 <ivan> q+
15:52:03 <dlongley> VC-COSE-JOSE can reference data integrity if it so desires
15:52:13 <dlongley> or reference DID core like DI does
15:53:49 <kristina> ack ivan
15:54:34 <manu> q+
15:54:39 <kristina> ack manu
15:54:59 <seabass> manu: DID documents are subclasses of controller documents.
15:55:57 <dlongley> +1 controller documents have been part of data integrity for a decade, DID documents are specific subclass of controller documents
15:56:13 <manu> q+
15:56:57 <kristina> ack manu
15:57:01 <seabass> q+ to ask for links
15:57:45 <dlongley> https://w3c.github.io/vc-data-integrity/#controller-documents
15:59:46 <seabass> q- thanks dlongley
16:00:22 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:00:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-vcwg-special-minutes.html ivan
16:00:30 <seabass2> !nick seabass
16:01:26 <ivan> zakim, end meeting
16:01:26 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been brent, ivan, andres, shigeya, seabass, pdl_asu, DavidC, TallTed, dmitriz, hsano, dlongley, kristina, hsano_, manu, Will, pauld, JoeAndrieu,
16:01:29 <Zakim> ... decentralgabe
16:01:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:01:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-vcwg-special-minutes.html Zakim
16:01:37 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, ivan; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:01:37 <Zakim> Zakim has left #vcwg-special
16:01:37 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
16:01:37 <RRSAgent> I see no action items