W3C

– DRAFT –
ixml Group Teleconference

25 July 2023

Attendees

Present
Bethan, Joel, John, Michael, Norm, Steven
Regrets
-
Chair
Steven
Scribe
Michael, Michael

Meeting minutes

<mjoel> good morning/afternoon/evening

<norm> Hello Joel

<Steven> Previous minutes:

<Steven> Previous minutes: https://www.w3.org/2023/06/27-ixml-minutes

<mjoel> AT&T fiber has been down for 5(!) days at my location, so I'm on a shaky tethered mobile internet stream

<mjoel> is there a backup phone bridge?

<cmsmcq> No one seems to know of a backup phone bridge.

Administrivia

<norm> My attempt at a pubrules-correct community draft is: https://ixml.nwalsh.com/ixml/CG-FINAL-ixml-20230710/

<cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-01-10-b - continued

<cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-01-10-c - continued

ACTION: 2023-04-11-a: done, at least a draft.

<cmsmcq> Everyone has 48 hours to point to errors; if none are reported, NDTW will send it to the publication team

<cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-04-11-c - partially done in June, but not yet discussed.

ACTION: 2023-05-09-d: done

ACTION: 2023-06-27-a: done (and turned into a PR by NDTW)

Status of implementations

<cmsmcq> 3.0 version of NineML is imminent.

<cmsmcq> The GLL parser is now consistently a little faster than the Earley parser.

<cmsmcq> Enumeration of trees in cases of ambiguity has now been implemented.

<cmsmcq> Renaming proposal implemented (but just found a bug).

<cmsmcq> Steven: renaming is half done.

Status of testing and test suites

<cmsmcq> Norm has requested that we merge a test on output ambiguity: see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2023Jul/0008.html

ACTION: MSM to add ambiguity as discussion to agenda

ACTION: MSM to add discussion of wording proposal for renaming to agenda for next meeting

Technical issues

<cmsmcq> NDTW suggested that in order to use the new syntax for renaming, the grammar will need to be marked with a version number (e.g. 1.1)

<cmsmcq> Otherwise, a 1.0 processor may just interpret the grammar as syntactically incorrect and reject it.

<cmsmcq> Examples need to have a 1.1 version string.

<cmsmcq> But it may be that nothing further is needed.

Issue 176

<cmsmcq> This was closed in the last meeting and should be dropped from the agenda.

Issue 181 Non serializable characters in the input

<cmsmcq> Raised by John Cowan

<norm> Comment in here: invisibleXML/ixml#176

<mjoel> EBCEDIC...now there's a name I haven't heard in...

<cmsmcq> We discussed John Cowan's suggestion that line endings be normalized.

<cmsmcq> Some sentiment that ixml doesn't now do any normalization, so this would be a change.

<cmsmcq> Some sentiment that we do have (implicit) normalization to Unicode -- or at least, a processor could without non-conformance handle non-Unicode input by normalizing to Unicode.

<cmsmcq> JL: the question is, where is our design center? Text input? or binary input?

<cmsmcq> JL thinks the design center is clearly text.

<cmsmcq> SP: the grammar doesn't now say anything at all about input, or changing it. We have a sequence of characters, and we do stuff with it.

<cmsmcq> SP: line-end normalization could be an option.

<cmsmcq> But it shouldn't be required.

<cmsmcq> BTW: an option would work, but end users will want the default to be normalization, not non-normalization.

<cmsmcq> SP: there are three options here.

<cmsmcq> 1 Leave it as is, and you get Unicode characters for CR etc.

<cmsmcq> 2 Processors SHOULD offer line-end normalization as an option, with default of no-normalization.

<cmsmcq> 3 Processors SHOULD offer non-normalization as an option, but with normalization as the default.

<cmsmcq> JL: one wrinkle is that really it's not the processor invocation but the grammar that needs to say "this grammar assumes normalized line-ends".

<cmsmcq> In that case, a run-time option is not quite the right thing.

ACTION: NDTW to make an issue for the question of line-end normalization.

C0 and C1

<norm> invisibleXML/ixml#189

<cmsmcq> In the current spec, C0 and C1 control characters are not allowed in literal strings.

<cmsmcq> Some implementations of ixml treat 7F as a member of C1, some don't.

<cmsmcq> We seem, after discussion, to have consensus that 7F should be covered by this rule (whether it's part of C1 or not).

<cmsmcq> SP notes that the Unicode Database classes U+007F as CC (control character, other)

<cmsmcq> It may be better to recast the rule in terms of the Cc character class.

<cmsmcq> The range of that class is 00-1F, 7F, and 80-9F.

ACTION: Norm to make PR for recasting the rule.

Next meeting

<cmsmcq> We will meet again on 8 August.

<cmsmcq> JL suggests that we try to spend some time on grammar combination at the next meeting.

ACTION: JL to redraft his notes on grammar combination and send something to the public list/

<cmsmcq> Adjourned at xx:52.

<cmsmcq> s/ACTION: 2023/ACTION 2023/

<cmsmcq> s/ACTION: 2023/ACTION 2023/g

<cmsmcq> s/ACTION: 2023/ACTION 2023/

<cmsmcq> s/ACTION: 2023/ACTION 2023/

<cmsmcq> s/ACTION: 2023/ACTION 2023/

Summary of action items

  1. 2023-04-11-a: done, at least a draft.
  2. 2023-05-09-d: done
  3. 2023-06-27-a: done (and turned into a PR by NDTW)
  4. MSM to add ambiguity as discussion to agenda
  5. MSM to add discussion of wording proposal for renaming to agenda for next meeting
  6. NDTW to make an issue for the question of line-end normalization.
  7. Norm to make PR for recasting the rule.
  8. JL to redraft his notes on grammar combination and send something to the public list/
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Active on IRC: cmsmcq, mjoel, norm, Steven