13:50:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ixml
13:50:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-irc
13:53:26 <norm> norm has joined #ixml
13:58:02 <mjoel> mjoel has joined #ixml
13:58:58 <mjoel> good morning/afternoon/evening
13:59:04 <norm> Hello Joel
13:59:13 <norm> rrsagent, help
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14:00:12 <Steven> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:00:21 <Steven> Meeting: ixml Group Teleconference
14:00:30 <Steven> Date: 25 July 2023
14:00:37 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:00:41 <Steven> Previous minutes:
14:01:10 <Steven> Previous minutes: https://www.w3.org/2023/06/27-ixml-minutes
14:01:32 <mjoel> AT&T fiber has been down for 5(!) days at my location, so I'm on a shaky tethered mobile internet stream
14:01:34 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2023Jul/0006
14:01:48 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:01:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-minutes.html Steven
14:02:16 <mjoel> is there a backup phone bridge?
14:02:20 <Steven> Scribenick: cmsmcq
14:02:25 <Steven> Scribe: Michael
14:02:55 <cmsmcq> No one seems to know of a backup phone bridge.
14:04:30 <cmsmcq> topic:  Administrivia
14:05:14 <norm> My attempt at a pubrules-correct community draft is: https://ixml.nwalsh.com/ixml/CG-FINAL-ixml-20230710/
14:05:26 <cmsmcq> https://meet.google.com/dfz-rwpj-opq - continued
14:06:05 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-01-10-b - continued
14:06:05 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-01-10-c - continued
14:06:15 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-04-11-a: done, at least a draft.
14:06:43 <cmsmcq> Everyone has 48 hours to point to errors; if none are reported, NDTW will send it to the publication team
14:06:58 <cmsmcq> s/https://meet.google.com/dfz-rwpj-opq - continued//
14:07:25 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-04-11-c - partially done in June, but not yet discussed.
14:08:50 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-05-09-d: done
14:09:13 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-06-27-a: done (and turned into a PR by NDTW)
14:09:37 <cmsmcq> topic:  status of implementations
14:09:50 <cmsmcq> 3.0 version of coffee* is imminent.
14:10:09 <cmsmcq> The GLL parser is now consistently a little faster than the Earley parser.
14:10:25 <cmsmcq> Enumeration of trees in cases of ambiguity has now been implemented.
14:10:45 <cmsmcq> Renaming proposal implemented (but just found a bug).
14:11:58 <cmsmcq> Steven:  renaming is half done.
14:12:22 <cmsmcq> topic: Status of testing and test suites
14:13:11 <cmsmcq> Norm has requested that we merge a test on output ambiguity: see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2023Jul/0008.html
14:14:05 <cmsmcq> ACTION:  MSM to add ambiguity as discussion to agenda
14:15:45 <cmsmcq> ACTION:  MSM to add discussion of wording proposal for renaming to agenda for next meeting
14:15:56 <cmsmcq> topic: Technical issues
14:16:39 <cmsmcq> NDTW suggested that in order to use the new syntax for renaming, the grammar will need to be marked with a version number (e.g. 1.1)
14:17:15 <cmsmcq> Otherwise, a 1.0 processor may just interpret the grammar as syntactically incorrect and reject it.
14:18:01 <cmsmcq> Examples need to have a 1.1 version string.
14:18:25 <cmsmcq> But it may be that nothing further is needed.
14:19:26 <cmsmcq> topic:  Issue 176
14:19:40 <cmsmcq> This was closed in the last meeting and should be dropped from the agenda.
14:19:51 <cmsmcq> topic: Issue 181 Non serializable characters in the input
14:19:56 <cmsmcq> Raised by John Cowan
14:22:48 <norm> Comment in here: https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/issues/176
14:26:44 <mjoel> EBCEDIC...now there's a name I haven't heard in...
14:27:58 <cmsmcq> We discussed John Cowan's suggestion that line endings be normalized.
14:28:18 <cmsmcq> Some sentiment that ixml doesn't now do any normalization, so this would be a change.
14:29:12 <cmsmcq> Some sentiment that we do have (implicit) normalization to Unicode -- or at least, a processor could without non-conformance handle non-Unicode input by normalizing to Unicode.
14:29:36 <cmsmcq> JL: the question is, where is our design center?  Text input? or binary input?
14:30:15 <cmsmcq> JL thinks the design center is clearly text.
14:30:45 <cmsmcq> SP:  we don't now say anything at all about input, or changing it.  We have a sequence of characters, and we do stuff with it.
14:30:57 <cmsmcq> s/we do/the grammar does/
14:31:25 <cmsmcq> SP:  line-end normalization could be an option.
14:31:44 <cmsmcq> But it shouldn't be required.
14:32:46 <cmsmcq> BTW:  an option would work, but end users will want the default to be normalization, not non-normalization.
14:34:48 <Steven> Present: Bethan, Joel, John, Michael, Norm, Steven
14:35:56 <cmsmcq> SP:  there are three options here.
14:36:12 <cmsmcq> 1 Leave it as is, and you get Unicode characters for CR etc.
14:36:40 <cmsmcq> 2 Processors SHOULD offer line-end normalization as an option, with default of no-normalization.
14:37:15 <cmsmcq> 3 Processors SHOULD offer non-normalization as an option, but with normalization as the default.
14:38:41 <cmsmcq> JL:  one wrinkle is that really it's not the processor invocation but the grammar that needs to say "this grammar assumes normalized line-ends".
14:39:25 <cmsmcq> In that case, a run-time option is not quite the right thing.
14:40:23 <cmsmcq> ACTION: NDTW to make an issue for the question of line-end normalization.
14:40:46 <cmsmcq> topic: C0 and C1
14:41:37 <norm> https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/issues/189
14:46:28 <cmsmcq> In the current spec, C0 and C1 control characters are not allowed in literal strings.
14:46:44 <cmsmcq> Some implementations of ixml treat 7F as a member of C1, some don't.
14:47:43 <cmsmcq> We seem, after discussion, to have consensus that 7F should be covered by this rule (whether it's part of C1 or not).
14:48:08 <cmsmcq> SP notes that the Unicode Database classes U+007F as CC (control character, other)
14:48:39 <cmsmcq> It may be better to recast the rule in terms of the Cc character class.
14:48:58 <cmsmcq> The range of that class is 00-1F, 7F, and 80-9F.
14:49:25 <cmsmcq> ACTION: Norm to make PR for recasting the rule.
14:50:53 <cmsmcq> topic: Next meeting
14:51:02 <cmsmcq> We will meet again on 8 August.
14:51:42 <cmsmcq> JL suggests that we try to spend some time on grammar combination at the next meeting.
14:52:44 <cmsmcq> ACTION:  JL to redraft his notes on grammar combination and send something to the public list/
14:53:01 <cmsmcq> Adjourned at xx:52.
14:53:09 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:53:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
14:53:43 <cmsmcq> s/status of implementations/Status of implementations/
14:54:26 <cmsmcq> s|/meet.google.com/dfz-rwpj-opq - continued///meet.google.com/dfz-rwpj-opq - continued||
14:55:05 <cmsmcq> s/coffee*/NineML/
14:55:09 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:55:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
14:58:45 <cmsmcq> s/ACTION: 2023/ACTION 2023/
14:58:50 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
14:59:07 <cmsmcq> s/ACTION: 2023/ACTION 2023/g
14:59:11 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
14:59:39 <cmsmcq> s/ACTION: 2023/ACTION 2023/
14:59:40 <cmsmcq> s/ACTION: 2023/ACTION 2023/
14:59:41 <cmsmcq> s/ACTION: 2023/ACTION 2023/
14:59:44 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
15:01:17 <cmsmcq> ScribeNick: cmsmcq
15:01:22 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:01:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
15:04:56 <cmsmcq> ScribeOptions: --scribenick cmsmcq
15:04:58 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:05:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
15:06:21 <cmsmcq> Scribe:  cmsmcq = Michael
15:06:26 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
15:07:03 <cmsmcq> ScribeOptions: --scribe cmsmcq = Michael
15:07:07 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
15:08:33 <cmsmcq> RRSAgent, you are excused
15:08:33 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'you are excused', cmsmcq.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:09:12 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, please excuse us
15:09:12 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-actions.rdf :
15:09:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MSM to add ambiguity as discussion to agenda [1]
15:09:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-irc#T14-14-05
15:09:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MSM to add discussion of wording proposal for renaming to agenda for next meeting [2]
15:09:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-irc#T14-15-45
15:09:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: NDTW to make an issue for the question of line-end normalization. [3]
15:09:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-irc#T14-40-23
15:09:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Norm to make PR for recasting the rule. [4]
15:09:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-irc#T14-49-25
15:09:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JL to redraft his notes on grammar combination and send something to the public list/ [5]
15:09:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-ixml-irc#T14-52-44