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17:57:31 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-aria-apg-irc
17:57:31 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:57:32 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King
17:57:43 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike has joined #aria-apg
17:57:46 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
17:57:52 <Matt_King> present+
17:58:02 <jugglinmike> present+ jugglinmike
18:01:11 <Jem> Jem has joined #aria-apg
18:01:34 <Jem> rrsagent, make minutes
18:01:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem
18:02:07 <Jem> present+ JaeunJemmaKu
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18:03:59 <howard-e> present+
18:05:58 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
18:06:25 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Next week, we'll be meeting as usual. That's August 1
18:06:35 <jugglinmike> Topic: Status of Site Updates
18:06:54 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I have nine pull requests that have all been merged to the "main" branch and therefore ready to deploy to production
18:07:53 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: There's an additional pull request from John that I'd like to include, but there would still be value in deploying what we have next Tuesday
18:08:15 <jugglinmike> howard-e: I can prepare a pull request for Shawn by next Monday. I'll include John's patch if it's merged in the mean time
18:08:30 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: You can use the list in this meeting's agenda in the pull request description for Shawn
18:08:31 <arigilmore> arigilmore has joined #aria-apg
18:09:21 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'll send her an e-mail just to let her know that we're going to have a pull request for her on Monday (last time, it sounded like she would have liked more notice)
18:10:06 <jugglinmike> Topic: Pull request reviews
18:10:35 <jugglinmike> subtopic: Infrastructure: Update localhost references for regression tests
18:10:40 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2749
18:11:06 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: According to howard-e's research, this will be fixed by Node.js version 20
18:11:18 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: ...but if we merge this, we can fix it in the current release of Node.js
18:11:27 <jugglinmike> howard-e: That's right!
18:12:12 <jugglinmike> howard-e: This is a low-risk patch and easy to revert. I think it should be fine to merge now that you've reviewed, Matt_King.
18:12:33 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: If something went wrong, then the workflows that are running the regression tests would fail, right?
18:12:41 <jugglinmike> howard-e: Yes
18:12:56 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Okay; I'll merge it later today
18:13:36 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Listbox Examples: Update scrolling of listbox item with focus into view when page is magnified
18:13:42 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2622
18:13:55 <jugglinmike> s/John/Jon/g
18:14:27 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This was authored by Jon. He said he's running late and may not make it to this meeting at all.
18:14:51 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The regression workflows are failing. I've tried to re-run them, but they continue to fail.
18:15:01 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: And they're failing in places that are not related to this pull request.
18:15:33 <jugglinmike> howard-e: I can take a look at what's going wrong. It looks like numbers 1, 2, and 4 are giving us trouble
18:16:27 <Jem> https://accessibility-bookmarklets.org/
18:16:37 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It's not a truly necessary link, and we can probably remove it. We'll definitely have to remove it if the site doesn't exist anymore!
18:16:49 <jugglinmike> Jem: The site is responding for me right now
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18:18:11 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Okay, so the link checker should probably pass, now. Maybe that was just a temporary anomaly with that website.
18:18:22 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: PR 2723: Select-only Combobox Example: Fix scroll event listener bug by ariellalgilmore
18:18:29 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2723
18:18:33 <jugglinmike> present+ arigilmore
18:19:08 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: I was working on this with Andrea, and when we tried the suggested solution, it didn't work for mouse, and our solution didn't work for keyboard
18:19:23 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: We were having trouble getting the "blur" effect
18:20:13 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: The original issue was: when someone would click on the scrollbar in the combobox, it would immediately close the combobox.
18:20:15 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: By fixing that, we were having trouble getting keyboard navigation to work AND mouse navigation to work when navigating in the combobox.
18:21:26 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: Now, you can click on the scroll bar, and it will scroll without closing. But after that, if you click outside the combobox, it doesn't close.
18:22:00 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: Though it does close when you tab away. It's just a problem for the case where you've clicked on the scrollbar
18:22:45 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: This doesn't appear to be a browser bug because the interaction works as expected on the other examples (even though those examples look quite different)
18:23:17 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: I don't currently understand why the other comboboxes work while this one particular combobox does not
18:30:33 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Sarah wrote the original code here; they might be able to help
18:30:40 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: I'll reach out to them
18:31:12 <jugglinmike> Topic: New Issue Action Planning
18:31:20 <jugglinmike> subtopic: Incorporate/embed Feed example into APG Pattern Page · Issue #2747 · w3c/aria-practices
18:31:29 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2747
18:31:54 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This is about the feed example which is anomalous because we have the "feed" page and a separate page called "feed display"
18:32:21 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We originally thought that putting the feed in the middle of the example page would have been a problem, and not very realistic besides
18:32:38 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We thought we'd be able to make a more realistic example if we put it on its own page
18:32:49 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: With the new site design, I'm not sure if that's still true
18:33:13 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We may now be able to embed the feed directly into the example page and get rid of the "feed display" page
18:33:23 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It seems like a fairly straightforward exercise to do this
18:34:12 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: I can give it a try
18:34:46 <jugglinmike> Jem: The page says that the feed does not yet have ARIA-Practices task force consensus. Is that still true?
18:34:56 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We might want to change the wording there
18:35:40 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The parts of this that are kind of unusual are that because this does not have a native equivalent, we don't have patterns to go off of for keyboard commands (in particular for nested feeds)
18:36:11 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: For instance, to exit a feed, we use "Control + End", but we could do a lot of different things
18:38:29 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This example is also distinct in that it generates new HTML content dynamically, and in that it simulates timing
18:39:08 <jugglinmike> Jem: I can help you if there are any problems with the template, arigilmore, because I need to better understand how templates work
18:39:14 <jugglinmike> arigilmore: Thanks! I'll let you know
18:39:35 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I've assigned the issue to arigilmore
18:40:16 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: SECURITY - NPM Dependency Confusion
18:40:21 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2745
18:40:41 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: They're asking us to publish our package manifest someplace
18:40:49 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: howard-e you might be the best person to address this
18:41:01 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It looks like they want to pin all packages in the package.json file to specific versions
18:43:43 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: what the reporting is describing sounds like the purpose of a package-lock.json file to me
18:44:19 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: This issue appears to be the only public activity of this particular GitHub user account
18:44:38 <jugglinmike> subtopic: color picker best practice · Issue #2742 · w3c/aria-practices
18:44:45 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2742
18:45:15 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: There have been plenty of people who have requested a two-dimensional color picker over the years. This appears to be one of those
18:45:34 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The response from JAWS-test appears to address the possibilities pretty well
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18:46:38 <MarkMcCarthy> present+
18:46:40 <Jem> https://svelte-awesome-color-picker-git-feature-contrast-level-ennoriel.vercel.app/open
18:50:01 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I'm unable to access inputs on the provided demo page
18:50:13 <jugglinmike> [the group discusses the demo's visual behavior]
18:50:32 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Ah, if I turn off JAWS's virtual cursor, I get a different experience
18:50:52 <jugglinmike> present+ MarkMcCarthy
18:51:20 <jugglinmike> MarkMcCarthy: the inputs have ARIA labels, but they're on DIV elements without a role. That's probably why JAWS isn't announcing them
18:52:10 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Maybe the values are changing on my system, and it's just that JAWS isn't reporting the changes
18:53:11 <jugglinmike> MarkMcCarthy: I'm not sure what role you would give to these, though
18:54:24 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It seems like you could make a slider that changes two different values, but not three different values. ARIA doesn't support that
18:55:22 <jugglinmike> MarkMcCarthy: JAWS-test has covered everything I can think of
18:56:28 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: ARIA might already have an open issue for a two-dimension slider, but if not, it seems reasonable for ARIA to support it.
18:56:46 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think it would mean a new role
18:57:01 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Or maybe a new value for aria-orientation
18:58:42 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Then again, you can achieve this with two sliders
18:59:15 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: But with two sliders, you can't change both dimensions simultaneously--you have to tab back and forth between them
19:00:20 <jugglinmike> MarkMcCarthy: Yeah, supporting that "free movement" would require something new from ARIA
19:03:53 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: So this could re-use the "slider" role, but maybe a new value for aria-orientation like "both"
19:04:36 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That's an ARIA problem, though. Here in APG, there's not a great solution right now, other than offering two sliders. They just need to make sure their inputs have the "slider" role
19:05:30 <jugglinmike> RRSAgent, end the meeting
19:05:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'end the meeting', jugglinmike.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:05:37 <jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting
19:05:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, jugglinmike, JaeunJemmaKu, howard-e, arigilmore, MarkMcCarthy
19:05:39 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
19:05:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/25-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim
19:05:46 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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