13:33:00 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 13:33:05 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-i18n-irc 13:33:05 Zakim has joined #i18n 13:33:27 Meeting: Internationalization WG Teleconference 13:33:34 Chair: Addison Phillips 13:33:46 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/c5b143d1-0a5b-4adb-8d60-0f5f9bfe5a41/20230720T150000/ 13:33:46 clear agenda 13:33:46 agenda+ Agenda Review 13:33:46 agenda+ Action Items 13:33:47 agenda+ Info Share 13:33:49 agenda+ RADAR Review 13:33:51 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 13:33:54 agenda+ Various Pull Requests 13:33:56 agenda+ AOB? 13:33:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-i18n-minutes.html addison 13:52:26 xfq has joined #i18n 13:56:40 JcK has joined #i18n 13:57:13 present+ Addison, Fuqiao 13:59:14 present+ David, Atsushi 14:01:40 David has joined #I18n 14:02:11 present+ Bert, JcK 14:02:36 present+ Richard 14:02:56 present+ 14:04:10 zakim, take up agendum 1 14:04:10 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:04:11 agenda? 14:04:42 zakim, take up agendum 2 14:04:42 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:04:56 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen 14:06:19 #19? 14:06:19 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/19 -> Action 19 Develop a specdev section about i18n considerations sections (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 14:07:19 #15? 14:07:20 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/15 -> Action 15 Get character styling into w3c stylesheet (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 14:08:39 #14? 14:08:40 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/14 -> Action 14 Pull text from gpuweb as a reference until we have a more permanent solution (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 14:08:41 close #14 14:08:42 Closed -> action #14 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/14 14:10:01 #4? 14:10:01 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a) due 27 Jul 2023 14:10:16 zakim, take up agendum 3 14:10:16 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:10:39 scribe+ 14:11:21 JcK: IETF next week, so I probably won't join. 14:11:32 zakim, take up agendum 4 14:11:32 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:11:39 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1 14:12:10 zakim, take up agendum 5 14:12:10 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:12:22 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Apending 14:13:00 zakim, take up agendum 6 14:13:00 agendum 6 -- Various Pull Requests -- taken up [from agendabot] 14:13:34 addison: Trying to get specdev published. 14:13:59 ... Specdev has some broken links, because we haven't publsihed stringmeta in a year. 14:14:00 action: addison: update string-meta in TR 14:14:24 ... So proposing to publish stringmeta, too. 14:14:27 action: addison to update string-meta in TR 14:14:34 Created -> action #24 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/24 14:14:51 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/40 14:15:50 addison: ^^ about fixing an image. Was this done? 14:16:16 xfq: I think respec was fixed since then, so this can probably be closed. 14:16:21 ... I will check. 14:16:45 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/52 14:17:09 addison: xfq was adding some Jamo and Kana definitions. 14:17:19 ... I noticed a typo. 14:17:34 ... I can commit it. 14:17:58 https://deploy-preview-52--i18n-glossary.netlify.app/ 14:18:02 ... Shall we look at the two definitions now together? 14:18:22 https://deploy-preview-52--i18n-glossary.netlify.app/#j 14:18:40 +1 to go 14:19:30 David: I would add that Kana can also be used for emphasis. 14:19:50 ... It is not just for loan words. 14:20:29 https://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/katakana-uses.html#:~:text=Katakana%20is%20used%20for%20emphasis 14:20:37 addison: Is Kana really a separate script, or is it a script together with Katakana? 14:21:00 David: In some ways it is also a separate script. 14:21:31 addison: The definition in gloassary is taken from Unicode definition. 14:21:56 atsushi: Maybe too complicated to mention this special usage. 14:23:02 David: Maybe mention hiragana and katakana and not mention the special usages. Example is use in names in metro stations. 14:23:22 addison: So use Unicode def, or...? 14:23:27 fwiw, katakana is also commonly used for onomatopoeia 14:23:39 atsushi: I would not mention the complex usages. 14:24:05 David: Suggest to remove "The former is used to write particles, grammatical affixes, and words that have no kanji form; the latter is used primarily to write foreign words." 14:24:39 xfq: (I need to fix some punctuation.) 14:25:05 addison: If we use the Unicode def with chnages, should we inform Unicode? 14:25:32 r12a: @@ 14:25:56 xfq: I can mention the two terms and say they are more often used. 14:26:19 David: "PrimariY" syllabic is the right term. 14:26:29 r12a: Or maybe not. 14:26:57 s/r12a: @@/r12a: higarana and katakana are more often used than kana/ 14:27:34 ... The second sentence clarifies that the two, hiragana and katakana, are used together, so I'd not remove it. 14:28:09 r12a: I think we need to make our definition, and then tell Unicode. 14:28:36 addison: We can ask Unicode and if they don't want to change, then we can make our own definition. 14:29:03 action: addison to inform Unicode about the kana definition 14:29:05 Created -> action #25 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/25 14:29:15 xfq: I started writing a def myself, but then found it was very similar to Unicode's, so I used theirs. But I can change it. 14:29:49 addison: I will contact Unicode about the kana definition. And we hold until then. 14:30:14 r12a: Note that is a definition, not meant as a tutorial. 14:30:32 xfq: We can link to other places for that. 14:31:17 atsushi: jreg spec is frozen and task force hasn't discussed this. 14:31:21 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-glossary/pull/35 14:31:50 s/jreg/jlreq/ 14:32:32 addison: This is about definitions for utf-16 and utf-8. 14:33:04 r12a: is "63K" the right number? 14:33:31 addison: With "k" for 1000? 14:33:49 xfq: Use "2^16"? 14:34:22 addison: I can also mention the utf-16 definition when I talk to Unicode. 14:34:44 xfq: I agree with addison's comment in the issue. 14:35:29 r12a: About the "1M": They are not necessarily less common, or not all of them. 14:36:09 addison: This was written a long time ago and referred to Old Church Slovanic and Arcadian... 14:36:31 JcK: Endianness 14:37:10 ... I think no defintion is complete without that. Otherwise there are two versions of utf-16. 14:37:26 s/defintion/definition/ 14:38:09 https://deploy-preview-35--i18n-glossary.netlify.app/#dfn-utf-8 14:39:06 r12a: About utf-8: Maybe say that utf-16 is more used for internal representation and utf-8 for on-the-wire. 14:39:06 addison: I wouldn't say anything in the utf-16 def. 14:39:24 ... We might want to say for utf-8 that it is the preferred encoding. 14:39:46 r12a: If you work with javascript, there is ahigh probability you work with utf-16. 14:40:19 xfq: Can say utf-8 is the dominant for the web. 14:40:54 addison: We say in general that you really should use utf-8. 14:41:04 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/105 14:41:06 rrsagent, make minutes 14:41:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-i18n-minutes.html xfq 14:42:36 addison: This is about specdev and the rtl/bidi text. 14:42:50 xfq: I only added one "mustard". 14:43:16 ... A few scripts have this requirement. 14:43:50 r12a: Not a requirement for rtl, but for _some_ rtl scripts. Not Adlam, e.g. 14:44:24 addison: Is it "specification" or rather "implementations"? 14:44:51 s/"mustard"/"mustard" [about slanting left]/ 14:45:40 r12a: If some other spec, say SVG, has a feature to slant text, it should also allow slant to the left. 14:46:14 ... Italic usually involves more than slanting. This is about synthesized oblique. 14:46:49 ... In that case, if a spec allows slanting, it should also allow slanting to the left. 14:47:19 addison: I would limit it to obliquing. 14:47:59 r12a: We don't have requirements for font developers. This is really only for sythesized oblique. 14:48:24 xfq: Yes, if there is a font, you can just use the font. 14:49:25 addison: Phrase it correctly: not just require slant left, but left and right :-) 14:50:17 r12a: It is not really for text decoration, nor for font management. Maybe park it under miscellaneous for now? 14:50:27 rrsagent, make minutes 14:50:28 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-i18n-minutes.html xfq 14:50:54 addison: There are some other issues tagged that are not related to obliquing. 14:51:12 xfq: OK, I'll do that 14:51:38 (for minutes, my suggestion was: Specifications describing the obliquing of text SHOULD support sloping letters in both directions.) 14:51:48 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/labels/t%3Atyp_bidi_x 14:52:00 ... I will move the tags and move the mustard to miscellaneous. And look for other issues for rtl/bidi text. 14:54:14 r12a: About the style for Unicode characers in specs: My code takes the text from the respec style and puts it in the doc. But sometimes it works and sometimes not. Haven't found why yet. 14:54:33 addison: As long as it works when we publish :-) 14:56:14 r12a: We have an index and a local.css. That local.css has stuff specific to that index file and nowhere else. And there is the respec22.css, which is in a different dir and applies to other docs. 14:57:07 ... When you publish, the CSS files need to be in the same directory as the index file. So in a way we cheat and copy the from the respec22.css file. 14:57:30 addison: So I should also remove from local.css everything that is in respec22. 14:57:49 r12a: But you also wanted to be able to test things, didn't you? 14:58:07 addison: Yes, it should work not just when we publish. 14:58:40 addison: I want to not have to change things when I publish a doc. 14:58:56 agenda? 14:59:03 zakim, take up agendum 7 14:59:03 agendum 7 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:00:03 rrsagent, make minutes 15:00:05 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-i18n-minutes.html addison 15:20:55 myles has joined #i18n 16:12:20 RRSAgent, list action items 16:12:20 I see 3 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-i18n-actions.rdf : 16:12:20 ACTION: addison: update string-meta in TR [1] 16:12:20 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-i18n-irc#T14-14-00 16:12:20 ACTION: addison to update string-meta in TR [2] 16:12:20 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-i18n-irc#T14-14-27 16:12:20 ACTION: addison to inform Unicode about the kana definition [3] 16:12:20 recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-i18n-irc#T14-29-03 16:26:15 zakim, bye 16:26:15 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Fuqiao, David, Atsushi, Bert, JcK, Richard 16:26:15 Zakim has left #i18n 16:26:29 s/Accadian/Akkadian/ 16:26:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-i18n-minutes.html addison 17:03:15 myles has joined #i18n 17:59:15 gb has joined #i18n 18:17:57 myles has joined #i18n 20:10:48 r12a has joined #i18n 20:25:28 myles has joined #i18n 21:47:16 myles has joined #i18n 23:48:33 xfq has joined #i18n