14:08:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:08:10 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-irc
14:08:52 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
14:09:33 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Kazeem_Oladipupo
14:10:23 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_19.2C_2023
14:10:35 <kaz> present+ Mahda_Noura
14:11:19 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot-td
14:12:25 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
14:12:45 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
14:12:58 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Michael_Koster
14:13:06 <kaz> q+
14:14:25 <kaz> ack k
14:15:38 <kaz> q+
14:16:49 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot-td
14:17:12 <Ege> scribenick: Ege
14:18:37 <Ege> scribenick: cris_
14:18:52 <kaz> topic: Organizational
14:19:04 <cris_> topic: previous minutes
14:19:11 <cris_> ege: names were fixed
14:19:24 <cris_> ... found a error I didn't scribe
14:19:34 <cris_> s/a e/an e/
14:19:58 <cris_> ... also daniel name is still using his nickname
14:20:01 <kaz> i|kaz: would suggest we have one-hour call for TD for a while during this extended period. We can concentrate on urgent bug fixes and planning.|
14:20:06 <cris_> ... we reached a resolution
14:20:12 <kaz> i|previous|kaz: would suggest we have one-hour call for TD for a while during this extended period. We can concentrate on urgent bug fixes and planning.|
14:20:17 <cris_> ... we need to write an email quickly
14:20:25 <kaz> i|previous|ek: ok|
14:20:45 <kaz> i|names were|-> https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-td-minutes.html July-12
14:20:50 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:20:55 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:20:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:21:05 <cris_> kaz: Daniel's name fixed
14:21:05 <cris_> ege: any other issues?
14:21:09 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann,Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:21:10 <cris_> ... minutes approved
14:21:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:21:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:21:20 <cris_> topic: TPAC topics
14:21:32 <kaz> chair: Ege, Koster
14:21:42 <cris_> ege: please if you have anyother topic that you want to discuss please edit the agenda
14:21:54 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato
14:21:57 <cris_> ... any other topics to discuss?
14:21:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:21:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:22:10 <kaz> i/would suggest/scribenick: kaz/
14:22:21 <luca_barbato> q+
14:22:21 <kaz> i/names were/scribenick: cris_/
14:22:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:22:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:22:30 <kaz> ack k
14:22:35 <kaz> ack lu
14:22:43 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
14:23:52 <kaz> i|please if|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf/2023_WoT_TPAC_Agenda#Agenda_Items TPAC WoT agenda|
14:24:08 <cris_> luca: talk about connected protocols would be nice
14:24:19 <cris_> ege: do you mean websockets?
14:24:45 <kaz> q+
14:25:00 <cris_> luca: yes doing better with anything that as a connection state
14:25:10 <cris_> kaz: ok adding that item
14:25:32 <cris_> ... but it is a big question, and it is related to whole WoT not just TD
14:25:49 <cris_> q+
14:26:30 <kaz> ack k
14:26:49 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
14:27:39 <kaz> kaz: note that we were planning to have additional vF2F meetings before and/or after TPAC, so those slots might be better opportunity for brainstorming discussion about bigger questions.
14:27:42 <mjk> q?
14:27:47 <kaz> i/note/scribenick: kaz/
14:27:47 <mjk> q+
14:27:58 <kaz> scribenick: cris_
14:28:28 <cris_> cris: how to choose a form is another long running question. Should we talk about it?
14:28:45 <kaz> i/scribenick/... we can still add that kind of topics to the agenda proposals, and talk about that during the main call next week, though./
14:28:56 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:28:57 <cris_> ege: we can brainstorm without any restriction, than we can choose
14:29:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:30:29 <luca_barbato> q+
14:30:48 <kaz> q+
14:30:53 <cris_> ... how to choose a form goes around normative consumption topics.
14:31:07 <cris_> cris: also manageable actions
14:31:25 <kaz> ack cr
14:31:32 <cris_> luca: they can be grouped inside Affordance design
14:31:39 <kaz> ack lu
14:31:55 <cris_> mk: We are making a list of TD items
14:32:19 <cris_> ... we can just refer to the list that we are making
14:32:52 <kaz> ack mj
14:33:08 <cris_> ... there is even less ability to get together in tpac so it is better to discuss those topics in other places
14:33:48 <cris_> ... we should point point unique opportunities that TPAC enables and discuss topic related to that
14:34:13 <cris_> ege: I think we can use TPAC to resolve long-standing discussions
14:34:42 <Ege> q?
14:35:20 <mjk> ack mjk
14:35:52 <cris_> kaz: yeah, I agree. We can use the TD work items list and select the ones that make sense.
14:36:00 <cris_> ... TPAC is focused on joint meetings
14:36:22 <Mizushima> +1 for mjk and kaz
14:36:43 <Ege> q?
14:36:44 <Ege> ack k
14:36:48 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/ThingDescription/work-items.md wot/planning/THingDescription/work-items.md
14:36:51 <kaz> ack k
14:37:45 <cris_> topic: Binding Templates publication status check
14:37:45 <kaz> s/make sense./make sense, because the work-items.md already has several categories like new features and refactoring./
14:37:52 <cris_> ege: we are getting closer
14:38:20 <cris_> topic: Thing description
14:38:36 <cris_> ege: I started creating the Github release for 1.1
14:38:48 <cris_> ... most of it is automatically generated by github
14:39:23 <kaz> q+
14:39:25 <cris_> ... any objections to do that?
14:40:00 <cris_> kaz: ok, but generate the final diff between the previous version and the current one to be sure there is no error.
14:41:01 <Ege> q?
14:41:02 <cris_> ege: yes, I agree. We will come to that
14:41:04 <Ege> ack k
14:41:06 <cris_> ... any other points?
14:41:23 <cris_> ege: github release published
14:41:36 <cris_> ... note that we have a git tag now
14:41:47 <cris_> ... so you can use it as reference
14:42:03 <dape> q+
14:42:41 <kaz> q+
14:43:00 <cris_> mk: is it the 1.1 release?
14:43:02 <cris_> ege: no
14:43:34 <cris_> dape: regarding the publication folder we have the same html
14:43:42 <cris_> ege: I linked in the release
14:45:12 <cris_> ... note that currently we don't have any diff with 6-pr folder
14:45:19 <cris_> subtopic: PRs
14:45:31 <cris_> s/subtopic:/topic:/
14:45:31 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1853/files
14:45:36 <kaz> s/... note/ege: note/
14:45:38 <cris_> subtopic: PR 1853
14:45:51 <cris_> ege: daniel just update the date and readme text
14:45:57 <cris_> ... nothing problematic
14:46:00 <cris_> ... any objections?
14:46:10 <Ege> q?
14:46:12 <Ege> ack d
14:46:14 <Ege> ack k
14:46:16 <dape> ack dape
14:46:23 <cris_> subotpic: PR 1854
14:46:29 <kaz> i|note|kaz: you should check the diff between wot-thing-description/index.html and wot-thing description/publication/ver11/6-pr/index.html|
14:46:32 <cris_> ege: minor typos
14:46:40 <cris_> ... in the README
14:46:40 <kaz> i/you should/scribenick: kaz/
14:46:44 <cris_> ... any objections?
14:46:48 <kaz> i/note/scribenick: cris_/
14:46:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:46:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:47:28 <cris_> subtopic: PR 1844
14:47:36 <cris_> ege: we agreed in  the main call that I will send a email
14:48:03 <cris_> topic: Issues
14:48:31 <cris_> ege: TM namespace is not really active
14:48:49 <cris_> ... I tried to understand what we did before
14:48:55 <cris_> ... and I found some issues
14:49:03 <cris_> ... first we didn't document the process
14:49:29 <cris_> ... for example, we somebody go to 2022/wot/td/11 we don't know which content has been served
14:49:49 <kaz> i|daniel just update the date|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1853 PR 1853 - Update README.md with PR note|
14:49:58 <kaz> s/subotpic:/subtopic:
14:50:03 <cris_> ... it seems that previous TD 1 namespace is serving an updated version of the first context
14:50:24 <cris_> ... last modified was July of this year
14:50:32 <kaz> i|minor typos|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1854 PR 1854 - Update minor typos in README|
14:50:33 <cris_> ... which is weird since it is an old
14:50:36 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:50:43 <cris_> ... td version
14:50:57 <cris_> ... using diff checker I was able to understand that we were pointing to a file in the current main branch
14:51:11 <cris_> q+
14:51:19 <kaz> i|we agreed|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1844 PR 1844 - Update schema to not allow empty op array|
14:51:21 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:51:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:52:31 <kaz> i|TM name|subtopic: Issue 1807|
14:52:54 <kaz> i|TM name|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1807 Issue 1807 - TM namespace not active yet|
14:54:45 <kaz> q?
14:54:47 <kaz> q+
14:54:48 <cris_> cris: it is ok that is ok to modify td-contex.jsonld
14:54:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:54:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:55:02 <cris_> ... it is how the render works
14:55:14 <cris_> daniel: correct, the renderer generate td-contx-1.1.jsonld
14:55:27 <Ege> ack c
14:55:29 <cris_> ege: then right, it should to REC1.0
14:55:42 <cris_> daniel: it is a w3c admin problem
14:55:50 <cris_> ege: can you have a look at it kaz?
14:56:00 <cris_> kaz: we talked about this issue many times
14:56:13 <cris_> ... first we should not use year number
14:56:23 <cris_> ... but just the version
14:56:49 <cris_> ... but given that we are using this notation in the current PR we can't change that right now
14:57:46 <cris_> ... second point is please clarify the mapping between w3c namespace -> github repository
14:57:53 <cris_> ... victor did it
14:58:05 <cris_> ... we can re-do it for 1.1
14:58:13 <cris_> ege: I agree with the previous point
14:58:23 <cris_> ... but year notation is suggested by w3c
14:58:38 <cris_> ... where is the mapping the Victor made?
14:59:40 <cris_> kaz: we can use ns (without director's approval) or use custom namespace (with director's approval)
15:00:22 <cris_> ege: back on the Victor's table, where is it?
15:00:32 <cris_> kaz: it is in an issue
15:01:13 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri Namespace URL Guideline
15:01:24 <cris_> ege checked the table
15:02:03 <cris_> ege: that is the problem we are using not tagged link to the files
15:02:09 <cris_> cris: I agree
15:02:15 <cris_> kaz: we can change it in the future
15:02:27 <cris_> ege: yes, I agree but now I understand we have a bug
15:03:55 <cris_> ... I'll create a document with the mapping
15:03:56 <cris_> kaz: it is good
15:04:08 <kaz> s/it is/that is/
15:04:37 <cris_> ege: with this release we have also json schemas for TM and TDs
15:04:53 <cris_> ... for them we need to allocate a new uris
15:05:18 <cris_> ... we could use content-negotiation to expose schema
15:05:19 <cris_> q+
15:05:51 <cris_> ...as kaz mentioned we have diffferent options
15:05:56 <kaz> s|we can use ns|As I suggested (I think 6 months ago or so), we can use "https://wwww.w3.org/ns/wot" as the base URI and add sub directories for future versions and resources.|
15:05:57 <cris_> ... see the doc
15:05:58 <kaz> ack k
15:07:53 <cris_> ack c
15:08:10 <cris_> cris: no content negotiation they are two separate resources
15:08:10 <kaz> q+
15:08:30 <cris_> ... I would follow the current format, although I don't like it.
15:09:47 <cris_> kaz: I'm ok with any kind
15:10:06 <cris_> ... of URI, they are just a way to identify a resource
15:10:33 <cris_> ... I don't like current format, but given that we already published it
15:10:46 <cris_> ... we should follow it
15:12:26 <cris_> ege: ok
15:12:45 <cris_> q+
15:12:53 <Ege> ack k
15:13:28 <kaz> q+
15:13:30 <kaz> ack c
15:16:16 <cris_> cris: suggesting td-schema at the end
15:16:25 <cris_> ege: what about v1.1-scheme
15:16:30 <cris_> cris: that also works
15:16:53 <cris_> kaz: final decision has to be brought to main call next year
15:16:59 <cris_> s/year/week/
15:17:29 <cris_> ege: note that we need just two URI
15:17:38 <cris_> ... one for tm schem and one for td schema
15:19:07 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2023/PR-wot-thing-description11-20230711/#namespaces WoT Thing Description 1.1 Proposed Recommendation - 4. Namespaces
15:19:50 <cris_> kaz: there are two points here: how to handle the URIs and the concrete mapping.
15:22:07 <Ege> proposal: "We agree to use URIs with date for TD 1.1 and 1.0. For TD 2.0 we will reevaluate and possibly change to using /ns approach"
15:23:25 <Ege> resolution: "We agree to use URIs with date for TD 1.1 and 1.0. For TD 2.0 we will reevaluate and possibly change to using /ns approach"
15:23:54 <cris_> ege: we can brainstorm right now
15:23:59 <cris_> ... and continue async
15:24:02 <JKRhb> rrsagent, please draft the minutes
15:24:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
15:24:41 <JKRhb> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:24:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
15:24:47 <cris_> q+
15:25:34 <kaz> ack k
15:26:14 <kaz> ack c
15:26:19 <kaz> q?
15:26:24 <kaz> q+
15:28:20 <cris_> kaz: we need to add several lines (one for each new uri) to the specification as well?
15:28:24 <cris_> ege: yes that is correct
15:29:07 <cris_> ... but is only in appendix B
15:29:22 <cris_> ... is changing and existing link
15:29:44 <cris_> q+
15:30:14 <sebastian_> sebastian_ has joined #wot-td
15:30:18 <cris_> kaz: from our view point it is a minor change, but for the w3c is a big change
15:30:28 <cris_> ... I need to talk with PL
15:31:21 <kaz> s/I need to talk with PL/I'm afraid I still need to talk with PLH about this./
15:32:00 <kaz> kaz: before that, please clarify the concrete URIs from www.w3.org to be mapped to some URLs from github.com
15:32:11 <kaz> i/before/scribenick: kaz/
15:32:54 <cris_> cris: we need to update the $id field too, but we already tagged the file. How can we correctly link it?
15:33:06 <cris_> ege: right that is an issue, I'll think about it.
15:33:52 <cris_> topic: final agenda items
15:34:04 <cris_> ege: planning discussion is moved in the planning meeting
15:34:07 <cris_> mk: I agree
15:34:15 <cris_> ... we have the workitems
15:34:24 <cris_> ... we just need to be sure to capture all of them
15:34:47 <cris_> ... for today I was planning to go through usecase and requirement togheters
15:34:51 <cris_> ege: any other points?
15:35:05 <cris_> ... ok, we can close the meeting
15:35:51 <cris_> [adjourned]
15:37:14 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:37:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
17:56:01 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-td