W3C

– DRAFT –
WoT-WG/IG

19 July 2023

Attendees

Present
Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, David_Ezell, Ege_Korkan, Kaz_Ashimura, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Mahda_Noura, Michael_Koster, Michael_McCool, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tetsushi_Matsuda, Tomoaki_Mizushima
Regrets
-
Chair
Koster, McCool, Sebastian
Scribe
dape, kaz, sebastian

Meeting minutes

New Member

McCool: I'd like to introduce Mahda Noura from Siemens

Mahda: did my PhD at University of Chemnitz, Germany
… topic was about composing devices and use complex functionalities

McCool: can you share your security experiences

Mahda: in my web engineering group we dealt with security

Sebastian: Mahda will support the security TF and TD TF

Minutes

<kaz> July-12

McCool: any objections on the minutes?

no

Quick Updates

McCool: are there any updates?

no

Schedule & Cancellations

<kaz> Cancellations

McCool: there will be security and discovery meetings next week

McCool: are there any cancellations?

seems not the case

McCool: are there any national holidays?
… please let us know

Kaz: there is Japanese Obon season mid August. I'll add information for that later.

Ege: somewhere else the schedule were provided

McCool: we should delete the Event section at the main wiki

Kaz: and then you can copy the "please check the calendar" link below to that section

<MM updates the call logistic section>

Update Charter WG review status

McCool: W3C TiLT review completed and charter has been approved
… the AC review will start shortly

Kaz: please ping your AC to support the Charter

Sebastian: would be good that we use the time during the extension also for technical discussions
… especially for Note based deliverables

McCool: when we get the charter approval earlier we can start earlier

Kaz: we need clearifications of the policy, document refactoring, use cases/requirements handling, etc. for next charter work first

TPAC23

<kaz> TPAC registration page

McCool: early bird is past
… remote participants have the same rate, but in-person will have increased rates

<kaz> TPAC WoT agenda

McCool: Let's check the agenda
… we have big topics which should in the agenda
… there are some joint meetings plant such as with JSON-LD and SDW
… there is a breakout topic proposal that relates to TD

<McCool> w3c/tpac2023-breakouts#8

Ege: I contacted the chairs of JSON-LD CG this morning

<kaz> s/Json-Ld/JSON-LD/

Ege: there is a JSON-LD CG meeting at TPAC planned
… but seems there is no WG meeting

<kaz> JSON-LD WG

<Ege> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/json-ld/ is chartered until Jan 2025

Kaz: The question here is not whether it's the JSON-LD WG or JSON-LD CG, but rather whether we could invite the key people or not. If this is not possible we can also organize a meeting before or after TPAC

Daniel: I follow JSON-LD mailing list, it seems the planned meeting at TPAC is not sure. Depends how many people can attend

<dape> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-json-ld-wg/2023Jun/0005.html

David: Ivan Hermann would be also good candidate

Kaz: Right. Pierre-Antoine is another possibility from the Team. So my question is what is the reponse so far to the JSON-LD group so far?

McCool: Just sent message this morning

Kaz: please take me in the loop, I can help

McCool: there will be meeting with Accessibity, so far planned for Thursday, 17:30-18:30

McCool: MEIG/PBG is organized by Kaz

Kaz: Regarding MEIG and PBG, they can't make the WoT session as the whole groups but their Chairs are very interested. So we can invite the Chairs to our session to have discussion on "potential services based on WoT platform in general".

McCool: there is a meeting with WebAgent CG
… Sebastian gives an intro to WoT

Ege: is this meeting already confirmed?

Kaz: please discuss how WebAgent can be part of the WoT use cases

McCool: do you think there is Digital Twin IG meeting during TPAC?

Kaz: yes, I like to share a breakout idea

Publictions

McCool: please ping your AC to vote on the PRs
… questionary is also linked within the PR

McCool: how about the Note publications

Kaz: I will start the Charter AC review process and then I will take care of the Note publications

Ege: That's related to TPAC: I received a email from W3C to invite observers such as Sick AG, Schaeffler, and Deutsche Telekom

McCool: we should check the room numbers

Kaz: please include me also here in the discussion about possible observers

Sebastian: shall we reserve some time in the agenda to ask the observers about use cases etc

McCool: we should do this
… please add some time in the agenda

Press Release

McCool: we didn't join the Marketing call this week

<Ege> +1 from my side to combine the calls

<Ege> brb

McCool: lets have a joint call, marketing and chairs call next week

Kaz: The Press Release text should be generated by the whole WG, but I'm OK with the Chairs and the Marketing TF collaboratively generating the initial draft first

Kaz: press release is relevant for the whole group. but we can start with the text in the marketing call and bring it back to the core team

McCool: lets start the call 1h earlier (7-9 Eastern) and use the whole Marketing slot as well.

Other Topics

McCool: any topics?

Ege: for TD TF we have 4 PRs where we need group agreement before merging

McCool: are they relvant for REC?

Ege: yes

McCool: please provide the link for the agenda
… if they only editorial that should be ok. We need to decide about the resolution process
… send email and wait 2 weeks for getting feedback?

<kaz> wot-thing-description PR 1843 - Fix well known operation types only

Kaz: 3 PRs are minor, one is more major (#1843). TD TF should explain more about this PR. Next week we should discuss this in detail
… TD TF already did the resolution. we need WG resolutions
… if we think this is ok, I can talk with PLH. The question is making the decision today or next week.

;-)

(main call part adjourned)

Planning

Document structure

<kaz> Sebastian's slides for last week

<SK showing the slides from last week>

Sebastian: We could not finish overview last week
… about deliverables and their context
… we considered layered approach
… major building block is TD
… related to bindings
… discovery to find/identify TDs
… security aspect is cross layer
… what is missing: Scripting API, Profile, ...

Sebastian: Let's start with Scripting API
… where is the right place?
… I think on same level as TD

McCool: Agree
… set of things on same level
… sidebar activities

Cristiano: Agree with the level
… why no arrow to TD?
… there is some dependency

Sebastian: I am okay putting arrows... but we did not put arrows between Arch and TD either

McCool: There are dependencies ... but I think it is implied
… relationship is implied by stack

Cristiano: I am fine.. just not very clear at the moment

McCool: the current arrows are more like "registry" arrows

Kaz: I am okay with keeping as is
… need to define what arrows/relationship means
… maybe later
… now we should discuss the content of each module first

Ege: We should highlight whether building block is mandatory
… at the moment we don't say it

McCool: Discovery is optional.. stated in documents
… TD is the only mandatory spec right now

McCool: w.r.t. Profile.. I would put it between TD and Discovery

McCool: Security schemas (modular extensions) should be handled in a similar fashion as bindings right now

Sebastian: In TD we need to describe these (security) mechanisms too

McCool: Correct
… without REC process

Cristiano: past showed strong relation between protocol & security
… e.g., oAuth in http binding

McCool: security schemes work with adding @context

Cristiano: Profile might be somewhat similar

McCool: Yes, logically we could have registry for profile

Cristiano: Another comment w.r.t. "stack"
… profile should not be *under* TD

McCool: Yes, maybe discovery needs to go somewhere else in the drawing
… optional sidebar features

McCool: In the end there should be more profiles

Ege: point about security and binding raised from Cristiano
… security is related to protocols
… profiles are more complex.. since it is about restricting the TD
… bindings are about existing protocols

Kaz: From my view point we don't need this kind of detail today
… for today
… concentrate on building blocks
… keep "Profile" in backlog for today seems fine also

Ege: w.r.t. registry for profiles we should be careful
… not having as many profiles as possible

<McCool> +1 agree with Ege that we should minimize # of profiles, so a registry is not necessarily appropriate

Ege: would hurt interoperability

Koster: More bindings help interoperability

Koster: More profiles hurt interoperability

Koster: security would be shared.. e.g., between HTTP and CoAP
… the API might be different
… the overall direction is good

McCool: agree limiting number of profiles
… REC process for profile.. is painful but maybe the right way

Kaz: We need further discussion w.r.t. Profile
… that's why I recommended to put it in backlog

Sebastian: Question about sharing security schemes in binding

McCool: security relevant to a single process can be in binding document
… generic sec schemes can go into TD

Sebastian: We should allow for "external" protocol bindings
… for example other SDOs
… following the binding mechanism we specify

Kaz: We should allow that kind of extensibility
… w.r.t. security: we need security mechanism in TD spec.
… need security portions in all the documents
… for next week we need to think what kind of security is needed

Sebastian: I think we can conclude this for today
… and take another look next week

wot PR 1106

wot PR 1106 - TD Planning

Ege: With M. Koster I plan to take a look at it in TD call
… restructuring with categories
… use-cases/issues per feature
… to have an understanding of topic area
… "timeseries" is a good example.. since there exist multiple issues and use-cases

Sebastian: I think we can merge this PR

Kaz: I agree with merging
… starting point for further discussions

Sebastian: Okay, let's merge

wot PR 1107

Sebastian: Another PR 1107, Social Media Policy

Ege: We have already a policy in marketing wiki
… was part of a group resolution
… my suggestions is to merge this since we have group resolution
… it is going to proposal directory

Kaz: Technically policy should be handled in one area... Github or Wiki
… now it is difficult to see a diff

Ege: Once merged, wiki text will be removed
… content has not been changed

Sebastian: Okay then let's merge the PR 1107

wot PR 1108

Sebastian: Asynchronous decision policy proposal PR, 1108

Sebastian: I don't think we can find agreement today
… it is about using Github features etc

Ege: Initially submitted by Ben Francis
… overall idea is to use GitHub more
… for non-normative changes one okay is enough
… for normative changes two okays are enough (not the same company)
… what if editor is not active .. different rules
… if no consensus can be reached -> postponed to web meeting

<McCool> (time check; also, I have another call to go to)

Sebastian: I ask everyone to take a look at this PR
… final decision next week

Kaz: Agree to talk about this next time

Sebastian: Will share/update the slides about architecture view

[adjourned]

Ege: Start TD call 10 past

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 210 (Wed Jan 11 19:21:32 2023 UTC).