12:00:45 RRSAgent has joined #wot 12:00:49 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-irc 12:00:54 meeting: WoT-IG/WG 12:01:00 meeting: WoT-WG/IG 12:01:45 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Mahda_Noura 12:01:54 mahdanoura has joined #wot 12:02:24 ktoumura has joined #wot 12:02:40 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#19_July_2023 12:02:46 present+ Michael_Koster 12:04:12 present+ Michael_McCool 12:04:37 McCool has joined #wot 12:05:13 Mizushima has joined #wot 12:05:25 Ege has joined #wot 12:05:30 sebastian has joined #wot 12:05:34 present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch 12:05:36 mjk has joined #wot 12:05:44 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 12:07:12 present+ Daniel_Peintner 12:07:25 scribenick: sebastian 12:07:35 dape has joined #wot 12:07:41 topic: New Member 12:08:15 luca_barbato has joined #wot 12:08:15 MM: I like to introduce Mahda Noura from Siemens 12:08:40 MN: did my PhD at Univeristy of Chemnitz, Germany 12:09:13 ... topic was about composing devices and use complex functionalities 12:09:49 MM: can you share your security experiences 12:10:06 present+ Luca_Barbato, Tetsushi_Matsuda 12:10:14 rrsagent, make log public 12:10:19 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:10:21 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:11:11 matsuda has joined #wot 12:11:16 chair: McCool, Sebastian, Koster 12:11:22 cris_ has joined #wot 12:11:33 present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi 12:11:39 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:11:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:11:46 MN: in my web engineering group we dealt with security 12:12:00 SK: Mahda will support the security TF and TD TF 12:12:12 topic: Minutes 12:12:20 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html July-12 12:12:28 MM: any objections on the minutes? 12:12:31 no 12:12:41 topic: Quick Updates 12:12:51 MM: are there any updates? 12:12:51 no 12:13:03 topic: Schedule & Cancellations 12:13:23 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Cancellations_and_Schedule_Updates Cancellations 12:13:38 MM: there will be security and discovery meetings next week 12:13:58 MM: are there any cancellations? 12:14:07 q+ 12:14:11 seems not the case 12:14:21 q+ 12:14:27 MM: are there any national holidays? 12:14:32 ... please let us know 12:15:17 Kaz: there is Japanese +++ seasion 12:15:28 Kaz can you replace please 12:15:53 s/+++ seasion/Obon season imd August. I'll add information for that later./ 12:16:03 thanks 12:16:13 s/Kaz can you replace please// 12:16:16 s/thanks// 12:16:19 Ege: somewhere else the schedule were provided 12:17:04 MM: we should delete the Event section at the main wiki 12:17:15 q? 12:17:18 ack k 12:17:19 ack e 12:17:24 q+ 12:18:06 ack k 12:18:16 Kaz: please check the calendar link 12:18:45 12:18:53 s/secion/section 12:19:09 s/please check the calendar link/and then you can copy the "please check the calendar" link below to that section/ 12:19:17 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:19:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:19:25 topic: Update Charter WG review status 12:19:36 q+ 12:19:41 q? 12:19:49 MM: W3C TiLT review completed and charter has been approved 12:20:15 ... the AC review will start shortly 12:20:28 q+ 12:20:40 ack k 12:20:50 Kaz: please ping your AC to support the Charter 12:21:23 ack s 12:21:27 q+ 12:23:32 SK: would be good that we use the time during the extension also for technical discussions 12:23:50 ... especially for Note based delicerables 12:24:10 s/delicerables/deliverables 12:24:44 MM: when we get the charter approval earlier we can start earlier 12:25:49 Kaz: we need clearifications of the policy for next charter work first 12:26:31 topic: TPAC23 12:26:45 MM: early bird is past 12:27:29 s|policy|policy, document refactoring, use cases/requirements handling, etc.| 12:27:32 dezell has joined #wot 12:27:35 ... remote participants have the same rate, but in-person will have increased rates 12:27:47 present+ David_Ezell 12:27:55 MM: Lets check the agenda 12:28:09 i|early|-> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/registration.html TPAC registration page| 12:28:31 q+ 12:28:34 ... we have big topics which should in the agenda 12:28:35 ack k 12:29:12 i|Lets|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf/2023_WoT_TPAC_Agenda TPAC WoT agenda| 12:29:18 s/Lets/Let's/ 12:29:25 q+ 12:29:34 ... there are some joint meetings plant such as with JSON-LD and SDW 12:29:49 q+ 12:30:04 ... there is a breakout topic proposl that relates to TD 12:30:25 https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/8 12:31:00 EK: I contacted the chairs of Json-ld CG this morning 12:31:11 s/Json-Ld/JSON-LD/ 12:31:21 ... there is a JSON-LD CG meeting at TPAC planned 12:32:03 ... but seems there is no WG meeting 12:32:18 -> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/json-ld/ JSON-LD WG 12:32:21 q? 12:32:25 https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/json-ld/ is chartered until Jan 2025 12:32:31 q+ 12:32:32 ack e 12:33:21 ack k 12:33:27 Kaz: We can invite key people to talk about important topics. If this is not possible we can also organize a meeting after TPAC 12:34:52 DP: I follow JSON-LD mailing list, it seems the planned meeting at TPAC is not sure. Depends how many people can attend 12:34:53 s/We can invite key people to talk about important topics./The question here is not whether it's the JSON-LD WG or JSON-LD CG, but rather whether we could invite the key people or not./ 12:34:59 ack dape 12:35:07 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-json-ld-wg/2023Jun/0005.html 12:35:13 s/after TPAC/before or after TPAC/ 12:35:31 q+ 12:35:39 ack de 12:35:45 DE: Ivan Hermann would be also good candidate 12:36:24 q+ 12:36:39 ack k 12:36:41 Kaz: What is the reponse so far to the JSON-LD group so far? 12:37:00 MM: Just send message this morning 12:37:13 ack e 12:37:28 Kaz: please take me in the loop, I can help 12:38:31 MM: there will be meeting with Accessibity, so far planned for Thursday, 17:30-18:30 12:38:52 s/What is the/Right. Pierre-Antoine is another possibility from the Team. So my question is what is the/ 12:38:57 q+ 12:39:45 ack k 12:39:50 MM: MEIG/PBG is organized by Kaz 12:40:15 q+ 12:40:24 kaz: @@ 12:40:45 MM: there is a meeting with WebAgent CG 12:40:57 ... Sebastian gives an intro to WoT 12:41:13 Ege: is this meeting already confirmed? 12:41:42 s/@@/Regarding MEIG and PBG, they can't make the WoT session as the whole groups but their Chairs are very interested. So we can invite the Chairs to our session to have discussion on "potential services based on WoT platform in general"./ 12:41:56 q+ 12:41:59 ack e 12:42:22 ack k 12:42:55 Kaz: please discuss how WebAgent can be part of the WoT use cases 12:43:44 MM: do you think there is Digital Twin IG meeting during TPAC? 12:43:56 q+ 12:44:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:44:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:44:10 Kaz: yes, I like to share a breakout idea 12:44:26 topic: Publictions 12:44:33 q+ 12:44:43 s/Json-ld/JSON-LD/ 12:44:45 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:44:46 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:45:06 MM: please ping your AC to vote on the PRs 12:46:08 ... questionary is also linked within the PR 12:46:17 MM: how about the Note publications 12:48:12 kaz: @@ 12:48:36 Kaz: I will start the Charter review AC process and then I will take care about the Note publications 12:48:50 a/about/of/ 12:49:07 q+ 12:49:10 ack e 12:49:11 ack s 12:49:52 Ege: Thats related to TPAC: I received a email from W3C to invite obserers such as Sick AG, Schaeffler, and Deutsche Telekom 12:50:10 s/obserers/observers 12:50:50 q+ 12:51:25 MM: we should check the room numbers 12:51:44 s/Thats/That's/ 12:51:50 Kaz: please include me also here in the discussion 12:51:53 ack k 12:52:08 s/discussion/discussion about possible observers/ 12:52:38 q+ 12:52:53 ack s 12:53:07 SK: shall we reserve some time in the agenda to ask the observers about use cases etc 12:53:20 MM: we should do this 12:53:40 ... please add some time in the agenda 12:54:08 topic: Press Release 12:54:14 ack k 12:54:19 MM: yould not join next week 12:54:28 s/next/this 12:54:43 q+ 12:54:54 s/yould not/we didn't/ 12:55:08 s/this/the Marketing call this/ 12:55:45 +1 from my side to combine the calls 12:55:53 brb 12:57:08 ... lets have a joint call, marketing and chairs call next week 12:57:38 kaz: The Press Release text should be generated by the whole WG, but I'm OK with the Chairs and the Marketing TF collaboratively generating the initial draft first 12:58:36 Kaz: press release is relevant for the whole group. but we can start with the text in the marketing call and bring it back to the core team 13:00:23 MM: lets start the call 1h earlier (7-9 Eastern) 13:01:09 topic: Other Topics 13:01:56 s/Eastern)/Eastern) and use the whole Marketing slot as well./ 13:02:07 q? 13:02:12 q- 13:02:12 q+ 13:02:13 MM: any topics? 13:02:40 EK: for TD TF we have 4 PRs where we need group agreement before merging 13:02:59 MM: are they relvant for REC? 13:03:03 EK: yes 13:03:15 q+ 13:03:32 MM: please provide the link for the agenda 13:04:32 ... if they only editorial that should be ok. We need to decide about the resolution process 13:04:43 ... send email and wait 2 weeks for getting feedback? 13:04:55 ack e 13:05:40 q+ 13:06:22 Kaz: 3 PRs are minor, one is more major (#1843). TD TF should explain more about this PR. Next week we should discuss this in detail 13:06:55 ... TD TF already did the resolution. we need WG resolutions 13:07:14 ... if we think this is ok, I can talk with PHL 13:07:25 s/PHL/PLH/ 13:07:32 ;-) 13:07:39 adjourn 13:07:45 scribe: dape 13:08:25 TOPIC: Planning 13:08:38 13:08:55 s/PLH/PLH. The question is making the decision today or next week./ 13:09:00 SK: We could not finish overview last week 13:09:10 s/adjourn/(main call part adjourned)/ 13:09:19 ... about deliverables and their context 13:09:49 ... we considered layered approach 13:10:32 ... major building block is TD 13:10:37 ... related to bindings 13:10:42 i|3 PRs are|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1843 wot-thing-description PR 1843 - Fix well known operation types only| 13:10:49 ... discovery to find/identify TDs 13:10:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:10:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:11:07 ... security aspect is cross layer 13:11:32 i|SK showing|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/PRESENTATIONS/202307-planning/WoT_2.0_Relations.pdf Sebastian's slides for last week| 13:11:40 ... what is missing: Scripting API, Profile, ... 13:12:03 SK: Let's start with Scripting API 13:12:13 ... where is the right place? 13:12:21 ... I think on same level as TD 13:12:26 MMC: Agree 13:12:34 ... set of things on same level 13:12:42 s/take care about/take care of/ 13:12:42 ... sidebar activities 13:12:53 q+ 13:12:59 q- 13:12:59 ack e 13:13:20 CA: Agree with the level 13:13:32 ... why no arrow to TD? 13:13:37 i|Regarding MEIG|scribenick: kaz| 13:13:41 q+ 13:13:41 ... there is some dependency 13:13:56 i|here is a meeting with WebAgen|scribenick: sebastian| 13:14:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:14:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:14:12 SK: I am okay putting arrows... but we did not put arrows between Arch and TD either 13:14:22 q+ 13:14:25 ack cr 13:14:27 ack mc 13:14:41 q+ 13:14:42 MMC: There are dependencies ... but I think it is implied 13:15:10 ... relationship is implied by stack 13:15:28 CA: I am fine.. just not very clear at the moment 13:16:03 ack c 13:16:07 MMC: the current arrows are more like "registry" arrows 13:16:18 Kaz: I am okay with keeping as is 13:16:41 ... need to define what arrows/relationship means 13:16:45 ... maybe later 13:17:02 ... now we should discuss the content of each module first 13:17:03 ack k 13:17:15 i|The Press Release|scribenick: kaz| 13:17:29 EK: We should highlight whether building block is mandatory 13:17:45 i|press release is relevant for the whole group|scribenick: sebastian| 13:17:47 ... at the moment we don't say it 13:18:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:18:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:18:17 MMC: Discovery is optional.. stated in documents 13:18:29 ... TD is the only mandatory spec right now 13:18:44 q? 13:18:48 ack E 13:19:25 MMC: w.r.t. Profile.. I would put it between TD and Discovery 13:19:25 q+ 13:20:16 MMC: Security schemas (modular extensions) should be handled in a similar fashion as bindings right now 13:21:22 q? 13:22:07 SK: In TD we need to describe these (security) mechanisms too 13:22:14 MMC: Correct 13:22:23 ... without REC process 13:22:46 q+ 13:22:50 CA: past showed strong relation between protocol & security 13:23:06 ... e.g., oAuth in http binding 13:23:25 q+ 13:23:32 ack cr 13:24:14 MMC: security schemes work with adding @context 13:24:36 CA: Profile might be somewhat similar 13:24:50 MMC: Yes, logically we could have registry for profile 13:25:25 CA: Another comment w.r.t. "stack" 13:25:36 ... profile should not be *under* TD 13:26:19 MMC: Yes, maybe discovery needs to go somewhere else in the drawing 13:26:26 ... optional sidebar features 13:26:49 q? 13:26:59 q+ 13:27:36 q+ 13:27:47 MMC: In the end there should be more profiles 13:27:57 q+ 13:28:25 EK: point about security and binding raised from Cristiano 13:28:37 ... security are related to protocols 13:28:50 s/are/is/ 13:29:49 ack e 13:30:15 ... profiles are more complex.. since it is about restricting the TD 13:30:33 ... bindings are about existing protocols 13:31:24 ack c 13:31:29 q? 13:32:16 Kaz: From my view point we don't need this kind of detail today 13:32:29 .. for today 13:32:42 ... concentrate on building blocks 13:33:34 ... keep "Profile" in backlog for today seems fine also 13:33:50 ack k 13:33:54 qq+ Ege 13:33:58 q- Ege 13:34:07 EK: w.r.t. registry for profiles we should be careful 13:34:21 ... not having as many profiles as possible 13:34:23 +1 agree with Ege that we should minimize # of profiles, so a registry is not necessarily appropriate 13:34:37 ... would hurt interoperability 13:34:51 q+ 13:35:49 MK: More bindings help interoperability 13:36:02 MK: More profiles hurt interoperability 13:36:40 MK: security would be shared.. e.g., between HTTP and CoAP 13:37:05 ... the API might be different 13:37:17 ... the overall direction is good 13:37:27 ack mjk 13:37:30 ack mj 13:37:32 ack mc 13:37:36 MMC: agree limiting number of profiles 13:37:53 ... REC process for profile.. is painful but maybe the right way 13:38:13 Kaz: We need further discussion w.r.t. Profile 13:38:33 ack k 13:38:40 ... that's why I recommended to put it in backlog 13:39:15 SK: Question about sharing security schemes in binding 13:39:41 MMC: security relevant to a single process can be in binding document 13:39:56 ... generic sec schemes can go into TD 13:40:20 q? 13:40:32 q+ 13:40:54 SK: We should allow for "external" protocol bindings 13:41:02 ... for example other SDOs 13:41:20 ... following the binding mechanism we specify 13:41:58 Kaz: We should allow this extensibility 13:42:18 ... w.r.t. security: we need security mechanism in TD spec. 13:42:39 ... need security portions in all the documents 13:44:02 ... for next week we need to think what kind of security is needed 13:44:10 s/this ex/that kind of ex/ 13:45:22 q? 13:45:23 q? 13:45:24 ack k 13:45:56 SK: I think we can conclude this for today 13:46:08 ... and take another look next week 13:46:41 SUBTOPIC: PRs 13:46:58 q? 13:47:18 SK: PR 1106, https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1106 13:47:49 EK: With M. Koster I plan to take a look at it in TD call 13:48:24 ... restructuring with categories 13:48:44 ... use-cases/issues per feature 13:48:55 ... to have an understanding of topic area 13:48:59 s|SK: PR 1106, https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1106|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1106 wot PR 1106 - TD Planning| 13:49:18 q+ 13:49:19 ... "timeseries" is a good example.. since there exist multiple issues and use-cases 13:49:30 SK: I think we can merge this PR 13:49:48 Kaz: I agree with merging 13:49:58 ack k 13:50:01 ... starting point for further discussions 13:50:37 SK: Okay, let's merge 13:51:00 SK: Another PR 1107, Social Media Policy -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1107 13:51:22 EK: We have already a policy in marketing wiki 13:51:31 ... was part of a group resolution 13:51:49 ... my suggestions is to merge this since we have group resolution 13:52:12 q+ 13:52:38 ... it is going to proposal directory 13:53:11 q+ 13:53:15 Kaz: Technically policy should be handled in one area... Github or Wiki 13:53:57 ... now it is difficult to see a diff 13:54:11 EK: Once merged, wiki text will be removed 13:55:16 ... content has not been changed 13:56:21 q? 13:56:23 ack k 13:56:24 ack e 13:56:57 SK: Okay than let's merge the PR 1107 13:57:47 SK: Asynchronous decision policy proposal PR, 1108 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1108 13:57:47 s/than/then/ 13:57:58 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:57:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:58:09 SK: I don't think we can find agreement today 13:58:23 ... it is about using Github features etc 13:58:42 EK: Initially submitted by Ben Francis 13:58:51 ... overall idea is to use GitHub more 13:58:51 i|Sebastian's slides|subtopic: Document structure| 13:59:14 ... for non-normative changes one okay is enough 13:59:32 ... for normative changes two okays are enough (not the same company) 13:59:37 s/PRs/wot PR 1106/ 13:59:57 i|Another PR 1107|wot PR 1107| 13:59:58 ... what if editor is not active .. different rules 14:00:16 i|Another PR 1107|subtopic: wot PR 1107| 14:00:25 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:00:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:00:33 ... if no consensus can be reached -> postponed to web meeting 14:00:53 (time check; also, I have another call to go to) 14:01:06 i|1108|subtopic: wot PR 1108| 14:01:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:01:07