13:53:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
13:53:51 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-apa-irc
13:53:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:53:52 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
13:53:53 <janina> agenda?
13:54:03 <janina> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
13:54:10 <janina> Date: 19 Jul 2023
13:54:18 <janina> Chair:  Janina
13:54:18 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:54:18 <janina> agenda+ Charter Update https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/apa-wg-recharter/results
13:54:20 <janina> agenda+ TPAC 2023 Planning - https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2023
13:54:22 <janina> agenda+ RQTF Resolution re Symposium Report
13:54:25 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
13:54:28 <janina> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
13:54:31 <janina> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
13:54:33 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
13:54:36 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
13:54:38 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
13:54:41 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
13:54:43 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
13:54:46 <janina> agenda+ be done
13:58:12 <ToddL> ToddL has joined #apa
13:59:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #apa
14:00:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
14:00:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:00:19 <janina>  /me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01v8OPOgypw
14:01:01 <ToddL> present+
14:01:13 <Roy> present+
14:03:48 <janina> http://www.w3.org/Project/IRC/
14:03:56 <Roy> https://irc.w3.org/
14:04:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
14:04:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:04:59 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:07:21 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
14:09:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: I am moving homes on August 2nd so will likely not be able to chair
14:09:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... expect my co-chair Matthew to Chair that day
14:10:02 <Gottfried> present+
14:11:47 <janina> zakim, who's here?
14:11:47 <Zakim> Present: Lionel_Wolberger, ToddL, Roy, Gottfried
14:11:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see Gottfried, Lionel_Wolberger, ToddL, RRSAgent, Zakim, Rachael, tink, Roy, duga, agendabot, janina, ZoeBijl, ada, slightlyoff, cwilso, Github, imlostlmao, M2cshkpcgrp,
14:11:49 <Zakim> ... gonzu_15, Mike5Matrix, archivematrixorgfaq, gb, jcraig
14:14:19 <Gottfried> Gottfried has left #apa
14:16:16 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Let's please do introductions, as we welcome ToddL
14:16:19 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
14:19:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:19:14 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Charter Update https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/apa-wg-recharter/results -- taken up [from janina]
14:21:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> Roy: Waiting on a response from Charles, even though it is a non-blocking obejction to our draft charter
14:21:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:21:05 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- TPAC 2023 Planning - https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2023 -- taken up [from janina]
14:22:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: We have meetings planned with agendas fairly well determined
14:23:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... meeting is 11th September in Saville, Spain
14:23:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:23:44 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RQTF Resolution re Symposium Report -- taken up [from janina]
14:24:48 <Roy> https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-rqtf-minutes.html#r01
14:27:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
14:28:14 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
14:28:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Lionel_Wolberger
14:28:48 <PaulG> present+
14:29:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: W3C was named as participating in a grant that was prepared by the University of Lisbon
14:29:29 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the event defined in the grant took place, and a report was issued
14:29:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... shall we approve the report as-is or have a call for consensus
14:30:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> Gottfried: With my knowledge of these types of grants, a call for consensus would be prudent.
14:30:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: So be it.
14:31:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Janina will issue a CfC per standard APA process.
14:31:24 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:31:24 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
14:31:51 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
14:31:51 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
14:31:52 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:31:52 <Zakim> 6. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
14:31:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, take up next item
14:31:57 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
14:32:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
14:32:46 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
14:32:47 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:32:47 <Zakim> 7. Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues [from janina]
14:32:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, take up next item
14:32:49 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from janina]
14:32:52 <Roy> subtopic: Dubbing and Audio description Profiles of TTML2
14:32:53 <Roy> -   issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/66
14:32:53 <Roy> -   spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/dapt/
14:32:53 <Roy> -   tracked: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Dubbing_and_Audio_description_Profiles_of_TTML2
14:33:10 <Roy> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2023Jul/0019.html
14:35:11 <Roy> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/325
14:36:43 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: RQTF will review a MAUR updating process
14:37:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Regarding audio description: in MAUR 1.0 we decided that naming the medium we were describing was more useful than naming the modality by which the description was delivered
14:37:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we disagreed with ISO over that
14:37:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... and continue to disagree with AGWG over that
14:39:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Audio descriptions is slightly outdated, but it does communicate to lay people that some alternative description is needed for people who will not see the video in question.
14:39:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> Gottfried: This is consistent with image description: the word 'description' indicates that the image is being described, not the medium in which the description is provided
14:40:01 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Apple calls it 'audio description of video'
14:40:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> Gottfried: These descriptions are often delivered by text format
14:40:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: It is not worth holding up AGWG over this, as I would like to support AGWG moving forward from 2.2 to its 3.x versions
14:41:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... but we do see APA engaging with AGWG over this in 3.x discussions
14:41:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... COGA TF has indicated (via Lisa) that COGA needs may conflict with other disability needs
14:41:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... and may advocate for more needed key words into text extract capabilities
14:43:39 <ToddL> q+
14:44:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack ToddL
14:44:16 <Gottfried> Bachelor thesis on layered audio descriptions for videos: Schneider, R., Ableitner, T., & Zimmermann, G. (2022). Layered Audio Descriptions for Videos. In K. Miesenberger, G. Kouroupetroglou, K. Mavrou, R. Manduchi, M. Covarrubias Rodriguez, & P. Penáz (Eds.), Computers Helping People with Special Needs (pp. 51–63). Springer International Publishing. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-031-08645-8_7
14:45:37 <Gottfried> Another bachelor thesis on using AI-generated voices to allow for personalized audio description: Franziska Untraut. (2023). Personalisierte Audiodeskription mit KI-basierter Sprachsynthese. Bachelorthesis. Hochschule der Medien Stuttgart. https://nbn-resolving.org/urn:nbn:de:bsz:900-opus4-67645
14:45:42 <Lionel_Wolberger> ToddL: At yesterday's AGWG we did happen to discuss the understanding doc for Video WCAG 1.2.9
14:46:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> Gottfried: Posted links to thesis on audio description for video
14:47:20 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:47:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-apa-minutes.html Roy
14:48:44 <ToddL> https://www.w3.org/2023/07/18-ag-minutes.html
14:49:13 <ToddL> AGWG Meetin 18 July, 2023 (link above)
14:49:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: The engagement with HTML5 over how to build accessibility support into HTML 5
14:49:35 <Gottfried> There is an English abstract for Untraut's thesis on https://nbn-resolving.org/urn:nbn:de:bsz:900-opus4-67645 - second half of the page.
14:49:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... was very well supported by the MAUR (Media Accessibility User Requirements)
14:49:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... as people read MAUR and understood it
14:50:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... while other issues became conflicts that were not easily resolved, some of which were escalated all the way to the W3C Director
14:50:46 <Gottfried> Untraut also made a video with English captions: https://youtu.be/mKrKTNTWWak
14:50:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... a theme of these misunderstandings was a total lack of understanding of navigating the web via a screen reader
14:51:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... other misunderstandings were around "Alt"
14:51:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we had to demonstrate that a 105 word "alt" is not an "alt", it is a Long Desc
14:51:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Longdesc is better as it is a 'pull' and not a 'push'
14:53:35 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... many things were resolved by adding an extension to HTML5. An Extension means it is not required.
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14:54:20 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:54:20 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
14:57:36 <PaulG> If you follow the MDN articles (as a dev would) from https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/HTMLImageElement/longDesc which says it's deprecated. It links to aria-details, but that doesn't have anything to do with description in AT. So you looking at the example it uses aria-description which isn't implemented (still in draft) but refers to aria-describedby.
14:57:53 <PaulG> That super confusing and hard to dig up for a developer who's new to a11y
14:58:09 <Lionel_Wolberger> PaulG: Shared details about how Longdesc links to aria-details, which points you in turn to aria-describedby
14:58:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, end meeting
14:58:38 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Lionel_Wolberger, ToddL, Roy, Gottfried, PaulG
14:58:40 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:58:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-apa-minutes.html Zakim
14:58:48 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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