IRC log of apa on 2023-07-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-apa-irc

13:53:51 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

13:53:52 [Zakim]

please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina

13:53:53 [janina]

agenda?

13:54:03 [janina]

Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference

13:54:10 [janina]

Date: 19 Jul 2023

13:54:18 [janina]

Chair: Janina

13:54:18 [janina]

agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements

13:54:18 [janina]

agenda+ Charter Update https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/apa-wg-recharter/results

13:54:20 [janina]

agenda+ TPAC 2023 Planning - https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2023

13:54:22 [janina]

agenda+ RQTF Resolution re Symposium Report

13:54:25 [janina]

agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22

13:54:28 [janina]

agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review

13:54:31 [janina]

agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues

13:54:33 [janina]

agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

13:54:36 [janina]

agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues

13:54:38 [janina]

agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open

13:54:41 [janina]

agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates

13:54:43 [janina]

agenda+ Other Business

13:54:46 [janina]

agenda+ be done

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14:00:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]

agenda?

14:00:06 [Lionel_Wolberger]

present+

14:00:19 [janina]

/me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01v8OPOgypw

14:01:01 [ToddL]

present+

14:01:13 [Roy]

present+

14:03:48 [janina]

http://www.w3.org/Project/IRC/

14:03:56 [Roy]

https://irc.w3.org/

14:04:55 [Lionel_Wolberger]

scribe+

14:04:59 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:04:59 [Zakim]

agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]

14:07:21 [Gottfried]

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14:09:02 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: I am moving homes on August 2nd so will likely not be able to chair

14:09:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... expect my co-chair Matthew to Chair that day

14:10:02 [Gottfried]

present+

14:11:47 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

14:11:47 [Zakim]

Present: Lionel_Wolberger, ToddL, Roy, Gottfried

14:11:49 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Gottfried, Lionel_Wolberger, ToddL, RRSAgent, Zakim, Rachael, tink, Roy, duga, agendabot, janina, ZoeBijl, ada, slightlyoff, cwilso, Github, imlostlmao, M2cshkpcgrp,

14:11:49 [Zakim]

... gonzu_15, Mike5Matrix, archivematrixorgfaq, gb, jcraig

14:14:19 [Gottfried]

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14:16:16 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: Let's please do introductions, as we welcome ToddL

14:16:19 [Gottfried]

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14:19:14 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:19:14 [Zakim]

agendum 2 -- Charter Update https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/apa-wg-recharter/results -- taken up [from janina]

14:21:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Roy: Waiting on a response from Charles, even though it is a non-blocking obejction to our draft charter

14:21:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:21:05 [Zakim]

agendum 3 -- TPAC 2023 Planning - https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2023 -- taken up [from janina]

14:22:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: We have meetings planned with agendas fairly well determined

14:23:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... meeting is 11th September in Saville, Spain

14:23:44 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:23:44 [Zakim]

agendum 4 -- RQTF Resolution re Symposium Report -- taken up [from janina]

14:24:48 [Roy]

https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-rqtf-minutes.html#r01

14:27:22 [Lionel_Wolberger]

q+

14:28:14 [PaulG]

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14:28:42 [Lionel_Wolberger]

ack Lionel_Wolberger

14:28:48 [PaulG]

present+

14:29:13 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: W3C was named as participating in a grant that was prepared by the University of Lisbon

14:29:29 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... the event defined in the grant took place, and a report was issued

14:29:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... shall we approve the report as-is or have a call for consensus

14:30:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Gottfried: With my knowledge of these types of grants, a call for consensus would be prudent.

14:30:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: So be it.

14:31:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... Janina will issue a CfC per standard APA process.

14:31:24 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:31:24 [Zakim]

agendum 5 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]

14:31:51 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

14:31:51 [Zakim]

agendum 5 closed

14:31:52 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:31:52 [Zakim]

6. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]

14:31:57 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, take up next item

14:31:57 [Zakim]

agendum 6 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]

14:32:46 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, close this item

14:32:46 [Zakim]

agendum 6 closed

14:32:47 [Zakim]

I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:32:47 [Zakim]

7. Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues [from janina]

14:32:49 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, take up next item

14:32:49 [Zakim]

agendum 7 -- Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from janina]

14:32:52 [Roy]

subtopic: Dubbing and Audio description Profiles of TTML2

14:32:53 [Roy]

- issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/66

14:32:53 [Roy]

- spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/dapt/

14:32:53 [Roy]

- tracked: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Dubbing_and_Audio_description_Profiles_of_TTML2

14:33:10 [Roy]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2023Jul/0019.html

14:35:11 [Roy]

https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/325

14:36:43 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: RQTF will review a MAUR updating process

14:37:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... Regarding audio description: in MAUR 1.0 we decided that naming the medium we were describing was more useful than naming the modality by which the description was delivered

14:37:25 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... we disagreed with ISO over that

14:37:34 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... and continue to disagree with AGWG over that

14:39:14 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Lionel_Wolberger: Audio descriptions is slightly outdated, but it does communicate to lay people that some alternative description is needed for people who will not see the video in question.

14:39:47 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Gottfried: This is consistent with image description: the word 'description' indicates that the image is being described, not the medium in which the description is provided

14:40:01 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: Apple calls it 'audio description of video'

14:40:19 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Gottfried: These descriptions are often delivered by text format

14:40:53 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: It is not worth holding up AGWG over this, as I would like to support AGWG moving forward from 2.2 to its 3.x versions

14:41:08 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... but we do see APA engaging with AGWG over this in 3.x discussions

14:41:32 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... COGA TF has indicated (via Lisa) that COGA needs may conflict with other disability needs

14:41:45 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... and may advocate for more needed key words into text extract capabilities

14:43:39 [ToddL]

q+

14:44:05 [Lionel_Wolberger]

ack ToddL

14:44:16 [Gottfried]

Bachelor thesis on layered audio descriptions for videos: Schneider, R., Ableitner, T., & Zimmermann, G. (2022). Layered Audio Descriptions for Videos. In K. Miesenberger, G. Kouroupetroglou, K. Mavrou, R. Manduchi, M. Covarrubias Rodriguez, & P. Penáz (Eds.), Computers Helping People with Special Needs (pp. 51–63). Springer International Publishing. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-031-08645-8_7

14:45:37 [Gottfried]

Another bachelor thesis on using AI-generated voices to allow for personalized audio description: Franziska Untraut. (2023). Personalisierte Audiodeskription mit KI-basierter Sprachsynthese. Bachelorthesis. Hochschule der Medien Stuttgart. https://nbn-resolving.org/urn:nbn:de:bsz:900-opus4-67645

14:45:42 [Lionel_Wolberger]

ToddL: At yesterday's AGWG we did happen to discuss the understanding doc for Video WCAG 1.2.9

14:46:00 [Lionel_Wolberger]

Gottfried: Posted links to thesis on audio description for video

14:47:20 [Roy]

RRSAgent, make minutes

14:47:21 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-apa-minutes.html Roy

14:48:44 [ToddL]

https://www.w3.org/2023/07/18-ag-minutes.html

14:49:13 [ToddL]

AGWG Meetin 18 July, 2023 (link above)

14:49:17 [Lionel_Wolberger]

janina: The engagement with HTML5 over how to build accessibility support into HTML 5

14:49:35 [Gottfried]

There is an English abstract for Untraut's thesis on https://nbn-resolving.org/urn:nbn:de:bsz:900-opus4-67645 - second half of the page.

14:49:41 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... was very well supported by the MAUR (Media Accessibility User Requirements)

14:49:48 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... as people read MAUR and understood it

14:50:23 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... while other issues became conflicts that were not easily resolved, some of which were escalated all the way to the W3C Director

14:50:46 [Gottfried]

Untraut also made a video with English captions: https://youtu.be/mKrKTNTWWak

14:50:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... a theme of these misunderstandings was a total lack of understanding of navigating the web via a screen reader

14:51:06 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... other misunderstandings were around "Alt"

14:51:28 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... we had to demonstrate that a 105 word "alt" is not an "alt", it is a Long Desc

14:51:39 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... Longdesc is better as it is a 'pull' and not a 'push'

14:53:35 [Lionel_Wolberger]

... many things were resolved by adding an extension to HTML5. An Extension means it is not required.

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14:54:20 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, next item

14:54:20 [Zakim]

agendum 8 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]

14:57:36 [PaulG]

If you follow the MDN articles (as a dev would) from https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/HTMLImageElement/longDesc which says it's deprecated. It links to aria-details, but that doesn't have anything to do with description in AT. So you looking at the example it uses aria-description which isn't implemented (still in draft) but refers to aria-describedby.

14:57:53 [PaulG]

That super confusing and hard to dig up for a developer who's new to a11y

14:58:09 [Lionel_Wolberger]

PaulG: Shared details about how Longdesc links to aria-details, which points you in turn to aria-describedby

14:58:38 [Lionel_Wolberger]

zakim, end meeting

14:58:38 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been Lionel_Wolberger, ToddL, Roy, Gottfried, PaulG

14:58:40 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

14:58:41 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/19-apa-minutes.html Zakim

14:58:48 [Zakim]

I am happy to have been of service, Lionel_Wolberger; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye

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