16:01:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:01:33 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-irc
16:01:34 <pfps> present+
16:01:39 <ora> present+
16:01:40 <rubensworks> present+
16:01:43 <ora> chair+
16:01:46 <TallTed> meeting: RDF-star Working Group weekly meeting
16:02:00 <gkellogg> present+
16:02:04 <ora> TallTed, are you able to act as the scribe?
16:02:14 <gtw> present+
16:02:52 <TallTed> grrr... zoom is malfunctioning. if/when I get voice connection, I can scribe poorly.
16:03:01 <Tpt> present+
16:03:18 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-star
16:03:21 <AZ> present+
16:04:05 <gkellogg> scribe+ gkellogg
16:04:05 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:04:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:04:12 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:04:16 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/931e4e54-81ad-4aa3-a39f-84efe4b788c7/20230713T120000/
16:04:17 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:04:17 <agendabot> agenda+ Scribe: Thibodeau, Ted (alternate: Kellogg, Gregg)
16:04:17 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of last week's minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/06/29-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:04:17 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
16:04:18 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
16:04:21 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
16:04:26 <TallTed> Zakim, start meeting
16:04:26 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:04:28 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), TallTed
16:04:30 <gkellogg> zakim, next agendum
16:04:30 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe: Thibodeau, Ted (alternate: Kellogg, Gregg) -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:04:36 <gkellogg> zakim, close item 1
16:04:36 <Zakim> agendum 1, Scribe: Thibodeau, Ted (alternate: Kellogg, Gregg), closed
16:04:37 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:04:37 <Zakim> 2. Approval of last week's minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/06/29-rdf-star-minutes.html [from agendabot]
16:04:44 <gkellogg> zakim, open item 2
16:04:44 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Approval of last week's minutes: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/06/29-rdf-star-minutes.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:04:50 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
16:04:59 <Souri> present+
16:04:59 <pfps> minutes link points to meeting of 29 June, I think
16:05:12 <pfps> q+
16:05:19 <ora> ack pfps
16:05:27 <rubensworks> https://www.w3.org/2023/07/06-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:05:36 <gkellogg> pfps: I believe the link to the minutes is icorrect
16:05:45 <TallTed> present+
16:06:14 <pfps> s/icorrect/incorrect/
16:06:20 <gkellogg> s/icorrect/incorrect/
16:06:29 <AndyS> present+
16:06:34 <ora> proposal: Approve last week's minutes
16:06:42 <ora> +1
16:06:45 <gkellogg> 0
16:06:53 <AZ> +0 (I was not present)
16:06:59 <enrico> enrico has joined #rdf-star
16:07:04 <enrico> present+
16:07:05 <pfps> +0 ditto
16:07:14 <TallTed> s|https://www.w3.org/2023/06/29-rdf-star-minutes.html|https://www.w3.org/2023/07/06-rdf-star-minutes.html|
16:07:20 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:07:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:07:58 <TallTed> +1
16:08:17 <Tpt> +1
16:08:19 <rubensworks> +1
16:08:23 <enrico> +1
16:08:31 <Souri> +1
16:09:07 <gkellogg> TallTed: Standard practice is that resolutions are pending until the next meeting.
16:09:12 <ora> resolved: Approve last week's minutes
16:09:19 <gkellogg> zakim, next agendum
16:09:19 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:09:37 <TallTed> s/minutes link points to meeting of 29 June, I think//
16:09:52 <TallTed> s/I believe the link to the minutes is incorrect//
16:10:02 <gkellogg> ora: Should we revisit compliance?
16:10:04 <AZ> q+
16:10:30 <gkellogg> ... I think we can close #23, which is a duplicate of #19
16:10:30 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/19 -> Action 19 work with antoine and others to come up with a proposal for weak and strong compliance (on Antoine-Zimmermann, rdfguy) due 16 Feb 2023
16:10:30 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/23 -> Action 23 work on conformance proposal (on Antoine-Zimmermann) due 23 Feb 2023
16:11:14 <gkellogg> ... most comments are in #19. If people are happy with that, what do we do?
16:11:22 <pfps> q+
16:11:36 <ora> ack AZ
16:11:41 <TallTed> +1 close #23 as duplicate of #19
16:11:55 <gkellogg> AZ: I'm not sure exactly, but among the two possibilities, we define a subset of RDF and give it a name.
16:12:12 <gkellogg> ... When you want to conform to RDF 1.2 you can conform to one or the other.
16:12:27 <gkellogg> ... Or, we could define "partial" and "full" conformance.
16:12:40 <gkellogg> ... People want to have a name for this subset profile.
16:12:50 <gkellogg> ... We should explicitly define this profile.
16:12:50 <ora> ack pfps
16:13:21 <TallTed> q+
16:13:24 <gkellogg> pfps: I see a lot of discussion, but we're at the point where if there was a proposal, it could go on an agenda for the next meeting and vote on it.
16:13:24 <ora> q+
16:13:32 <ora> ack TallTed
16:13:38 <gkellogg> ... I'd like to see a single document with something we can vote on.
16:14:00 <gkellogg> TallTed: I'm concerned that a lot of discussion is coming for someone who's not a member of the WG.
16:14:21 <gkellogg> ... Substantive contributions are not allowed from outside the WG, and he is neither one.
16:14:41 <gkellogg> ... A lot of what he is saying would result in substantive content.
16:14:51 <gkellogg> ora: The IP issue is real.
16:15:33 <gkellogg> TallTed: I think the contributions have value, although are challenging.
16:15:56 <gkellogg> ora: I'm wondering if we should re-consider his desire to become an IE?
16:16:43 <ora> q?
16:17:27 <ora> ack ora
16:17:31 <gkellogg> TallTed: It's possible to raise points from external contributors, which could be useful.
16:18:00 <gkellogg> ora: I'd like to avoid a problem that when we're done there is a lot of negative feedback.
16:18:22 <gkellogg> ... Let's discuss these things and come up with a position on them so that we can point back to it in the future.
16:18:40 <gkellogg> TallTed: That has worked well in the past, although it may require a hearing with the director.
16:19:01 <AZ> q+ to say that this discussion is important but it deviates and is broader than the issue of conformance
16:19:11 <ora> ack AZ
16:19:11 <Zakim> AZ, you wanted to say that this discussion is important but it deviates and is broader than the issue of conformance
16:19:58 <gkellogg> AZ: This discussion is broader than the conformance part, as opinions are wider than this. There are other external contributors voicing strong opinions.
16:20:26 <gkellogg> ora: I think we need to have a concrete proposal on conformance for next week.
16:20:43 <TallTed> s/coming for someone/coming from someone/
16:20:45 <gkellogg> ... We also need to come up with a way to handle the other comments.
16:21:04 <pfps> yes, conformance levels don't seem to interact with the named graph (and similar things) relationship
16:21:13 <gkellogg> ... We need to have a discussion on other substantial comments, which would at least leave a record that it was discussed.
16:21:28 <ora> q?
16:21:59 <gkellogg> pfps: Conformance levels is something different than discussions about named graphs and other related issues.
16:22:10 <AZ> +1 to what pfps said
16:22:26 <gkellogg> ora: We could have a conformance proposal before concluding discussion about named graphs and so forth.
16:22:46 <gkellogg> pfps: I'll check to see if we have an issue on named graphs, and create one if not.
16:23:09 <TallTed> Deciding on what the conformance labels are probably doesn't require that we first define which features go under which label.
16:23:12 <gkellogg> ... There is an issue, w3c/rdf-concepts#46
16:23:12 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/46 -> Issue 46 Why quoted triples, when we already have named graphs? (lars-hellstrom)
16:23:36 <gkellogg> ora: We have to have that discussion.
16:23:55 <gkellogg> pfps: if the discussion ends up somewhere else, we should push it back to that issue.
16:24:35 <gkellogg> AZ: I don't have much availability to work on proposals before the end of August.
16:25:09 <gkellogg> ... I can do little things asynchronously, but can't participate in the next four of five meetings. I can review proposals.
16:25:34 <gkellogg> ora: I'll try to put together a proposal for next time.
16:25:58 <gkellogg> q+
16:26:06 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:26:51 <gkellogg> ora: we established that #19 and #23 were the same thing, so we should vote on that.
16:26:52 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/19 -> Action 19 work with antoine and others to come up with a proposal for weak and strong compliance (on Antoine-Zimmermann, rdfguy) due 16 Feb 2023
16:26:52 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/23 -> Action 23 work on conformance proposal (on Antoine-Zimmermann) due 23 Feb 2023
16:26:53 <AZ> Let's close issue #23!
16:27:12 <ora> q?
16:27:15 <gkellogg> ora: without objection, we can close #23.
16:27:27 <gkellogg> close #23
16:27:28 <gb> Closed -> action #23 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/23
16:27:57 <gkellogg> ora: other actions are for pchampin who sent regrets.
16:28:02 <gkellogg> regrets+ pchampin
16:28:07 <gkellogg> zakim, next item
16:28:07 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review of pull requests, available at -> 3 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:28:22 <gkellogg> regrets+ olaf
16:28:42 <gkellogg> q+
16:28:53 <Souri> The above links returns 404
16:29:24 <gkellogg> ora: still no answer to w3c/rdf-semantics#30
16:29:24 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/30 -> Pull Request 30 improve display on mobile phones (domel) needs discussion
16:30:05 <gkellogg> gkellogg: awiating feedback from I18N on w3c/rdf-concepts#48.
16:30:06 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/48 -> Pull Request 48 Add base direction as a fourth element of literals. (gkellogg) i18n-tracker, needs discussion, spec:substantive
16:31:01 <pfps> q+
16:31:47 <gkellogg> On w3c/rdf-concepts#52 it could be boilerplate for everything other than sparql-update.
16:31:48 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/52 -> Pull Request 52 Adds Privacy Considerations for RDF. (gkellogg) privacy-tracker, spec:enhancement
16:32:22 <pfps> q-
16:32:26 <gkellogg> ora: other editorial PRs have been here for a while, so I presume they can be merged.
16:32:48 <gkellogg> ktk: The media type issues needs a minor change.
16:33:09 <gkellogg> ora: I think we can close w3c/sparql-update#19
16:33:10 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-update/issues/19 -> Pull Request 19 rationalize some whitespace & punctuation (TallTed) spec:editorial
16:33:47 <gkellogg> ktk: I think there may be some things to resolve first, then merge.
16:34:10 <gkellogg> ora: I presume w3c/rdf-triples#34 needs to wait on w3c/rdf-concepts#48.
16:34:10 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-triples/issues/34 -> Issue 34 [not found]
16:34:19 <rubensworks> q+
16:34:51 <ora> q?
16:34:53 <gkellogg> AndyS: I've started on base direction for SPARQL.
16:35:39 <gkellogg> q?
16:35:44 <gkellogg> ack me
16:36:15 <gkellogg> rubensworks: I wanted to be sure that comments are cleared on w3c/sparql-update#19.
16:36:19 <gkellogg> AndyS: I'll look at it.
16:36:26 <gkellogg> zakim,  next agendum
16:36:26 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, gkellogg
16:36:32 <gkellogg> ack rubensworks
16:36:36 <gkellogg> zakim, next agendum
16:36:36 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:37:10 <gkellogg> ora: Looking at open issues.
16:37:54 <gkellogg> gkellogg: we should talk about the test suite.
16:38:16 <gkellogg> AndyS: I couldn't find one for the process about how to handle tests.
16:38:53 <gkellogg> ... I think the working group has to decide how to deal with tests.
16:39:18 <gkellogg> ... At some point, we'll need to bless a set of tests to show implementation compliance.
16:39:32 <gkellogg> q+
16:39:50 <gkellogg> ... I'd like to hear from W3C about what's viable.
16:40:02 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:40:30 <TallTed> q+
16:40:53 <gkellogg> AndyS: I'd imagine it would be for the lifetime of the WG.
16:42:48 <ora> q+
16:43:16 <gkellogg> AndyS: Closing the CG would have barriers because of otherwise open contributes.
16:43:17 <ora> ack TallTed
16:44:10 <gkellogg> AndyS: The CG may still be useful for ongoing maintenance.
16:44:34 <gkellogg> ... I suggest we create an area in the repo for RDF 1.2.
16:44:58 <gkellogg> TallTed: I'd like the repo there for the CG, and add areas for the new stuff, so that the old tests can still be run.
16:45:27 <gkellogg> ... Ideally, run 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2. That minimizes confusion.
16:45:38 <ora> ack ora
16:46:50 <gkellogg> ora: that seems like a good way forward.
16:47:10 <AndyS> The SPARQL area: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-tests/tree/main/sparql
16:47:13 <ora> q?
16:47:22 <gkellogg> ... For maintanence, I'd like this WG to be able to close eventually, so having the CG stay on for maintenance would be reasonable.
16:47:51 <Tpt> q+
16:47:52 <TallTed> You're safe either say, ora. Chairs can be rotated. I stepped in as cochair for the last several months of one group where the prior chair was repurposed by their employer....
16:48:04 <gkellogg> AndyS: If rubensworks has migrated, we can remove the sparql11 in the rdf-tests repo. It was supposed to go away.
16:48:17 <ora> ack Tpt
16:48:22 <TallTed> q+
16:49:03 <gkellogg> Tpt: I wanted to ask about the test suite; we added some tests to the sparql/sparql11 directory. Do we want to include them in the sparql 1.2 test suite, for example aggregate queries.
16:49:22 <gkellogg> AndyS: It's a bit tricky. I'd rather change 1.1, when it relates to an erratum.
16:49:56 <gkellogg> ... If the erratum is controversial, we should leave the original in place. Most errata are for the document, and not outcomes.
16:50:12 <gkellogg> Tpt: There is one test that may need to change.
16:50:43 <ora> ack TallTed
16:51:04 <gkellogg> TallTed: You're safe anyway, Ora, chairs can be changed.
16:51:29 <gkellogg> AndyS: SPARQL has a long history of changing chairs.
16:52:34 <gkellogg> AndyS: Just to be clear: we're going to form areas in the test suite to clearly delineate new work from legacy.
16:53:17 <TallTed> ACTION: gkellogg and AndyS to create two new areas in rdf-tests for rdf1.2 and sparql1.2
16:53:24 <gb> Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe gkellogg and AndyS is not a valid user for w3c/rdf-star-wg?
16:53:28 <TallTed> ACTION: AndyS to create two new areas in rdf-tests for rdf1.2 and sparql1.2
16:53:30 <gb> Created -> action #76 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/76
16:53:42 <TallTed> s/ACTION: gkellogg and AndyS to create two new areas in rdf-tests for rdf1.2 and sparql1.2//
16:54:02 <gkellogg> zakim, close agendum
16:54:02 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close agendum', gkellogg
16:54:25 <gkellogg> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:54:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-minutes.html gkellogg
16:54:32 <TallTed> Zakim, close item 6
16:54:32 <Zakim> I only see 5 items on the agenda
16:54:32 <TallTed> Zakim, close item 5
16:54:32 <Zakim> agendum 5, Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting, closed
16:54:33 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
16:54:45 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:54:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:55:24 <TallTed> s|TallTed, are you able to act as the scribe?||
16:55:35 <TallTed> s|grrr... zoom is malfunctioning. if/when I get voice connection, I can scribe poorly.||
16:57:16 <TallTed> s|On w3c/rdf-concepts#52 it could be boilerplate for everything other than sparql-update.|<gkellogg> On w3c/rdf-concepts#52 it could be boilerplate for everything other than sparql-update.|
16:57:17 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/52 -> Pull Request 52 Adds Privacy Considerations for RDF. (gkellogg) privacy-tracker, spec:enhancement
16:57:23 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:57:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:58:47 <TallTed> s|w3c/rdf-triples#34|w3c/rdf-n-triples#34|
16:58:47 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-triples/issues/34 -> Issue 34 [not found]
16:58:47 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/issues/34 -> Pull Request 34 Adds BNF and text to extend LANGTAG to support base direction  (gkellogg) spec:substantive
16:58:55 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:58:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:06:25 <TallTed> s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-triples/issues/34 -> Issue 34 [not found]|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-n-triples/issues/34 -> Issue 34 Adds BNF and text to extend LANGTAG to support base direction|
17:06:43 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:06:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:09:52 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:09:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:11:31 <TallTed> s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-triples/issues/34 -> Issue 34 [not found]||
17:12:26 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:12:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:14:39 <TallTed> Zakim, end meeting
17:14:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pfps, ora, rubensworks, gkellogg, gtw, Tpt, AZ, Souri, TallTed, AndyS, enrico
17:14:41 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:14:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-minutes.html Zakim
17:14:47 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, TallTed; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
17:14:48 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
17:14:52 <TallTed> RRSAgent, bye
17:14:52 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-actions.rdf :
17:14:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: gkellogg and AndyS to create two new areas in rdf-tests for rdf1.2 and sparql1.2 [1]
17:14:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-irc#T16-53-17
17:14:52 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AndyS to create two new areas in rdf-tests for rdf1.2 and sparql1.2 [2]
17:14:52 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/07/13-rdf-star-irc#T16-53-28
<pchampin> regrets+ ktk
<pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/07/06-rdf-star-minutes.html
<pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/07/20-rdf-star-minutes.html