14:09:12 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 14:09:16 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-td-irc 14:09:20 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF 14:11:00 luca_barbato has joined #wot-td 14:17:23 dape has joined #wot-td 14:19:16 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 14:22:44 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Luca_Barbato, Daniel_Peintner, Jan_Romann, Michael_Koster 14:23:10 chair: Ege, Koster 14:23:52 mjk has joined #wot-td 14:24:01 scribenick: mjk 14:24:27 topic: Minutes 14:24:36 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/07/05-wot-td-minutes.html July-5 14:25:20 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_12.2C_2023 14:25:25 q+ 14:25:28 ack dape 14:27:13 q+ 14:28:31 q? 14:28:33 ack j 14:28:49 ege: any more additions or corrections? 14:29:03 kaz: all minor issues are fixed 14:29:28 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 14:29:48 topic: agenda review 14:30:04 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#July_12.2C_2023 agenda for today 14:30:44 ege: any additions or changes to the agenda? 14:30:53 topic: TPAC planning 14:31:15 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf/2023_WoT_TPAC_Agenda TPAC agenda wiki 14:31:21 q+ 14:31:27 ege: deadline is August 2nd 14:31:49 kaz: please register for TPAC 14:32:39 ... please work with the joint call groups, JSON-LD, DID, etc. 14:33:18 ege: (review list of groups and topics) 14:33:19 ack k 14:33:30 s/please register/All, please register/ 14:33:35 ...please feel free to add to the list on the wiki page 14:33:40 s/please work/Ege and Sebastian, please work/ 14:33:46 topic: publication status 14:33:57 ege: TD 1.1 is now published 14:34:10 s/published/published as a CR 14:34:39 ege: now working on getting the notes published 14:34:49 topic: PR discussion 14:35:18 i|TD 1.1|-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2023/PR-wot-thing-description11-20230711/ Web of Things (WoT) Thing Description 1.1 - W3C Proposed Recommendation 11 July 2023 14:35:21 ege: there are 4 PRs for mostly editorial changes 14:35:25 rrsagent, make log public 14:35:29 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:35:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:35:39 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1845 14:35:41 subtopic: PR #1845 14:36:21 ege: corrects an error in the semantic tag in an example 14:36:43 ... does anyone have issues or objections? 14:36:44 q+ 14:37:09 dape: is there tooling that can check the examples to avoid this? 14:37:15 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1845|| 14:37:34 i|corrects|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1845 PR 1845 - Example 44 fix| 14:37:41 ege: planning to manage and validate examples going forward 14:37:41 ack dape 14:37:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:37:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:38:04 q? 14:38:18 ege: any objections? 14:39:03 ... merged 14:39:36 s/merged/agreed to merge 14:39:51 q? 14:40:22 ege: created issue #1851 to track examples validation 14:40:44 subtopic: PR # 1842 14:45:01 ege: clarifies for developers that JSON-Schema processors can be used to validate TD dataschema instances 14:46:03 i|clarifies|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1842 PR 1842 - Data schema clarification 14:51:01 q? 14:51:42 ege: any objections? 14:52:03 s/objections/objections to merge PR # 1842? 14:52:18 ... no objections, approved to merge 14:53:21 q+ 14:53:45 ... (updated the README for respec rendering instructions) 14:54:05 ack k 14:54:11 kaz: we should mention these instructions in the main call 14:55:21 i|updated the RE|subtopic: PR # 1852| 14:55:36 i|updated the RE|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1852 PR 1852 - Update README with rendering instructions| 14:55:49 subtopic: PR #1843 14:56:44 ege: operation values 14:57:11 ... there is a contradictory paragraph 14:58:03 ... the proposal is to change SHOULD to MUST 14:58:18 ege: not sure if we can change this 14:59:16 ... Kaz, can we make this change at this point? 15:00:01 kaz: what line exactly is changed? 15:00:50 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1843/files changes 15:00:57 luca: one problem is that this assertion is two statements 15:01:43 i|operation values|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1843 PR 1843 - Fix well known operation types only| 15:02:25 ... another problem is the current wording is not restrictive enough 15:03:43 kaz: we have already published this as a PR, so we can't change this document, but we can add a clarification for the published Recommendation 15:04:17 ege: the test is already restrictive and aligned with the new text 15:04:38 kaz: the original sentence is confusing 15:05:18 ... and does need clarification and fix. The meaning doesn't change but we need to change how it is expressed 15:06:19 sebastian has joined #wot-td 15:06:53 kaz: we need to make a group-wide resolution and talk with the publication people 15:08:10 kaz: we do need the fix for this, and there is no impact on the implementatin 15:08:44 kaz: we need to be clear that this is a fix for a mistake in the text 15:09:13 q? 15:10:57 kaz: the term fixed could be misinterpreted, maybe "non-extendable" would be better 15:11:17 ege: agree, will do that 15:11:41 kaz: let's get a resolution to add this, then take it to the publication staff 15:12:05 s/resolution/task force resolution 15:13:04 q+ 15:14:04 kaz: need to remove extra whitespace before merging, please create an issue on the subject od extra whitespace 15:14:09 s/od/of 15:14:22 luca: will fix 15:14:42 present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch 15:14:53 proposal: The TD Task Force agrees to merge PR 1847 after a group resolution and checking with the project manager 15:15:01 +1 15:15:02 ack j 15:15:05 ege: does anyone object to this proposal? 15:15:25 proposal: The TD Task Force agrees to merge PR 1843 after a group resolution and checking with the project manager 15:15:42 resolution: The TD Task Force agrees to merge PR 1843 after a group resolution and checking with the project manager 15:15:46 ege: no objections, resolved 15:16:04 q? 15:16:59 scribenick: Ege 15:17:12 topic: TD Planning 15:17:49 mjk: we want to have a list of work items and take forward to planning across the whole working group 15:18:09 ... td is one TF but at the same time, it is where the implementers start 15:19:13 mjk: some are small, some can be consolidated 15:19:22 ... some can be obvious 15:20:39 ... we can go into specific items now 15:20:56 ... first one is about registry of bindings 15:21:33 ... we can have other registries later 15:22:10 ... under binding mechanism we have 3 items and they are about specifying the binding mechanism 15:22:53 ... the other is reusable elements and linking but linking means pointer here 15:23:49 ek: I will quickly fix to pointers from linking 15:24:04 q+ 15:24:04 mjk: yeah, it is about reusing but maybe we have a more generic linking mechanism later on 15:27:04 lb: you mean you want the mechanism that is currently in security and additionalResponses to be generalized 15:27:17 mjk: yes 15:27:23 lb: this can increase complexity 15:27:35 ... so increase the memory size 15:27:54 mjk: so the file size gets better but the processing requires more resources 15:28:37 i|we want to have|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1106 wot PR 1106 - TD Planning| 15:28:43 q+ 15:29:18 ack lu 15:29:40 lb: it might be interesting to experiment on compacting for delivery 15:30:27 mjk: so you say that we should do design exploration on compacting 15:30:45 q+ 15:30:46 ... there is text reuse such as json schemas but there is also reuse of mqtt brokers 15:32:16 kaz: I am ok to create this but it is different from what we discussed last week 15:34:21 ... also I am surprised to see github project, it is too soon 15:34:55 mjk: we just experimented with the tooling for project management 15:35:06 +1 to mjk that we just wanted to test it 15:35:46 kaz: we can start with categories and fill them later on 15:38:11 s/we can start with categories and fill them later on/That said, if we want to start with the bigger two categories, (1) Design work and (2) Feature work, that's fine. However, you should explain the story first./ 15:38:20 qq+ 15:38:23 ack k 15:38:48 ek: we had the instruction to take the planning of discovery and apply to TD 15:39:21 mjk: I agree, I thought we were supposed to generate such md documents 15:39:32 ... the current list is not flat but we can work on it 15:40:06 s/story first./story first. Then we can put smaller items we discussed last week into those two bigger categories./ 15:41:02 ... timeseries and versioning (for example) are not similar and should be separated 15:42:16 kaz: you should have mentioned the story behind 15:43:31 s/behind/background story first. In that case, I myself suggested to McCool to use those two bigger categories and am completely OK with that direction./ 15:43:47 ack k 15:43:47 kaz, you wanted to react to luca_barbato 15:43:47 q? 15:43:52 ack c 15:44:08 s/kaz, you wanted to react to luca_barbato// 15:44:13 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:44:15 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 15:45:05 cris: we should not create new issues per item here. We have already issues on those. It would be good to list them here 15:46:18 q? 15:46:43 ek: we have a list already 15:47:52 q+ 15:49:45 ek: I think we should work in parallel with new features and design decisions 15:49:47 ack k 15:49:56 kaz: we can start with this list and extend 15:50:47 mjk: we should try to work on this list and then find dependencies 15:51:06 s/we can start with this list and extend/As the starting point, we should make sure all the smaller items we discussed last week are surely included in this bigger categorization MD./ 15:54:29 mjk: next phase should bring this list forward 15:56:50 ek: should this become a big document with all details 15:58:17 mjk: I think this should be a one pager document, details can be somewhere else 16:00:13 q? 16:38:55 kaz has joined #wot-td