IRC log of wot on 2023-07-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:58:07 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wot
11:58:12 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-irc
11:58:40 [kaz]
meeting: WoT-IG/WG
11:58:49 [kaz]
s|IG/WG|WG/IG|
11:59:14 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Luca_Barbato
12:03:52 [kaz]
present+ Michael_Koster
12:04:33 [Ege]
Ege has joined #wot
12:04:59 [mlagally]
mlagally has joined #wot
12:05:06 [kaz]
present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch, Ege_Korkan
12:05:09 [Mizushima]
Mizushima has joined #wot
12:05:20 [kaz]
present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:05:39 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
12:05:43 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:05:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:07:15 [kaz]
chair: McCool, Sebastian, Koster
12:07:37 [kaz]
scribenick: Luca_barbato
12:07:50 [mjk]
mjk has joined #wot
12:07:59 [luca_barbato]
topic: Minutes
12:08:08 [luca_barbato]
mm: Any objections to publish the minutes?
12:08:15 [luca_barbato]
<no objections>
12:08:29 [kaz]
i|Any|-> https://www.w3.org/2023/07/05-wot-minutes.html July-5|
12:08:40 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:08:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:08:52 [luca_barbato]
topic: Cancellations
12:09:18 [ktoumura]
ktoumura has joined #wot
12:09:33 [kaz]
q+
12:09:52 [luca_barbato]
mm: No changes to the cancellations
12:10:05 [kaz]
ack k
12:10:09 [luca_barbato]
kaz: People should clarify their holiday/vacation schedules
12:10:39 [kaz]
present+ Daniel_Peintner, Kunihiko_Toumura
12:10:47 [luca_barbato]
mm: We should avoid conflicts with national holidays
12:10:50 [sebastian]
sebastian has joined #wot
12:11:13 [kaz]
q+
12:11:38 [kaz]
ack k
12:11:45 [Ege]
q+
12:12:15 [kaz]
ack e
12:12:24 [McCool]
https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Cancellations_and_Schedule_Updates
12:12:30 [Ege]
mm: people should put their unavailability
12:12:50 [Ege]
... since we are approaching the holiday period
12:12:58 [luca_barbato]
topic: New charter review status
12:13:00 [Ege]
topic: New Charter Review
12:13:02 [kaz]
s/ability/ability on the Cancellation section of the main wiki above/
12:13:04 [kaz]
q+
12:14:05 [luca_barbato]
scribenick: Ege
12:14:25 [kaz]
i/people should put/scribenick: Ege/
12:14:43 [kaz]
s/topic: New Charter Review//
12:14:50 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:14:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:14:58 [Ege]
mm: we can make modifications
12:15:14 [kaz]
s/modifications/modifications to the separate detail plan doc/
12:15:31 [Ege]
kaz: we have received 6 comments
12:16:30 [Ege]
... we should put my name, table is also updated with some captions
12:17:32 [Ege]
... we should change our specs to proposed recommendation
12:19:41 [Ege]
mm: I think I deleted some parts by mistake
12:20:06 [kaz]
i|we have rece|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/118 wot-charter-drafts PR 118 - Update wot-wg-2023-draft.html based on the TiLT comments|
12:20:30 [sebastian]
q+
12:20:56 [Ege]
mm: does the group agree with this
12:20:57 [kaz]
ack k
12:21:15 [Ege]
sk: these changes are fine
12:22:36 [dape]
dape has joined #wot
12:22:51 [luca_barbato]
q+
12:22:59 [kaz]
q+
12:23:01 [kaz]
ack s
12:23:05 [Ege]
mm: I can align some small textual improvements
12:23:16 [Ege]
sk: can we change the list of deliverables?
12:24:18 [Ege]
... we do not have anyone to take care of the profile work at the moment
12:24:54 [kaz]
ack lu
12:25:11 [Ege]
lb: I can take of the profile if no one wants to
12:25:38 [matsuda]
matsuda has joined #wot
12:25:46 [Ege]
kaz: we should not change the content so much at this point
12:25:53 [Ege]
... we can make clarification later on
12:26:41 [kaz]
s/take of/take care of/
12:26:48 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:26:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:27:22 [McCool]
proposal: Merge wot PR#118 to update the draft 2023 charter to address TiLT (W3M) feedback.
12:27:51 [McCool]
proposal: Merge wot PR#118 to update the draft 2023 charter to address TilT (W3M/volunteers) feedback.
12:28:16 [McCool]
resolution: Merge wot PR#118 to update the draft 2023 charter to address TilT (W3M/volunteers) feedback.
12:29:26 [kaz]
q+
12:29:38 [Ege]
topic: TPAC
12:30:02 [Ege]
subtopic: Accesibility
12:30:03 [Ege]
q+
12:32:21 [kaz]
ack e
12:33:28 [Ege]
mm: which slot should we pick for the accesibility
12:33:42 [sebastian]
q+
12:34:03 [Ege]
... we can pick our slot on thursday afternoon
12:34:20 [kaz]
ack k
12:34:34 [kaz]
q+
12:35:09 [Ege]
ek: I would prefer to use our slots for WoT specific discussions
12:35:10 [Ege]
q+
12:35:38 [Ege]
ack s
12:35:55 [Ege]
kaz: Our charter says that accesibility is very important
12:36:11 [dape]
q+ to remote access for Joint Calls
12:36:50 [kaz]
ack k
12:38:15 [Ege]
Thursday 14.09 at 11:30 – 13:00 Friday 15.09 at 11:30 – 13:00 and at 17:00 – 18:00
12:38:15 [dezell]
dezell has joined #wot
12:38:23 [dezell]
present+ David_Ezell
12:38:50 [kaz]
s/important/important, and they're getting interested in accessibility for WoT services as well as ordinary Web contents. So it's good timing to have a joint meeting with them in person during TPAC 2023./
12:38:53 [kaz]
ack k
12:39:05 [kaz]
q+
12:39:52 [kaz]
q-
12:40:02 [kaz]
ack e
12:40:09 [kaz]
q+
12:40:14 [Ege]
mm: let´s propose this slot for now
12:40:32 [dape]
ack Danrancan
12:40:37 [dape]
ack dape
12:40:37 [Zakim]
dape, you wanted to remote access for Joint Calls
12:40:54 [kaz]
q-
12:40:59 [Ege]
... they also want to consider non-browser applications thanks to WoT
12:41:31 [Ege]
ek: I think we can pick their slots still
12:41:35 [Ege]
subtopic: WoT CG
12:41:43 [Ege]
ek: there are slots available from CG as well
12:41:50 [kaz]
present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura, Tetsushi_Matsuda
12:41:55 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:41:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:42:11 [kaz]
q?
12:42:15 [kaz]
q+ Ege
12:42:25 [kaz]
q+ kaz
12:43:15 [Ege]
mm: let's put this into the agenda
12:43:20 [Ege]
ek: I can organize
12:43:29 [kaz]
ack e
12:43:32 [Ege]
ek: should we remove the categories above?
12:43:39 [Ege]
mm: yes, you can fill the details later on
12:44:27 [kaz]
q?
12:45:23 [Ege]
kaz: I cannot join due to conflicts but a chair should join
12:45:29 [Ege]
sk: I can attend
12:45:40 [Ege]
q+
12:46:10 [Ege]
ack k
12:46:11 [Ege]
ack e
12:46:43 [kaz]
s/conflicts/conflicts with the MEIG/
12:46:53 [Ege]
mm: any objections to meeting slot?
12:46:55 [kaz]
q+
12:47:41 [kaz]
ack k
12:48:08 [kaz]
q+
12:48:47 [Ege]
subtopic: JSON-LD
12:49:33 [Ege]
mm: what topics do we have?
12:49:43 [Ege]
kaz: the breakout session and the joint discussion is different
12:49:54 [Ege]
mm: ege and sebastian can you update it
12:50:41 [Ege]
subtopic: SDW
12:50:54 [Ege]
kaz: we can collaborate on WebVMT
12:51:08 [kaz]
s/VMT/VMT, GeoPose, etc./
12:52:12 [kaz]
q+
12:52:46 [kaz]
topic: Publication
12:52:47 [kaz]
https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-discovery/
12:52:47 [kaz]
https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-architecture11/
12:52:47 [kaz]
https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description11/
12:52:56 [kaz]
See also https://www.w3.org/news/2023/call-for-review-wot-architecture-1-1-thing-description-1-1-and-wot-discovery-are-w3c-proposed-recommendations/
12:52:58 [sebastian]
q+
12:53:03 [Ege]
mm: we have news, as linked above
12:53:23 [kaz]
ack k
12:53:28 [kaz]
ack s
12:54:02 [Ege]
sk: thank you kaz for doing the work
12:54:07 [Ege]
kaz: thank you chairs and editors
12:54:10 [Ege]
ack s
12:54:18 [kaz]
i/disc/mm: 3 Proposed RECs were published yesterday on July 11./
12:54:25 [Ege]
q+
12:54:32 [kaz]
s/ chairs/, chairs/
12:54:35 [sebastian]
q+
12:54:40 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:54:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:54:48 [Ege]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/425
12:55:06 [kaz]
s/Accesibility/Accessibility/
12:55:14 [McCool]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/425
12:55:32 [kaz]
i/3 Proposed/scribenick: kaz/
12:55:43 [Ege]
topic: Press Release
12:55:46 [kaz]
i/we have news/scribenick: Ege/
12:55:49 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:55:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:55:56 [sebastian]
q?
12:56:27 [kaz]
s/topic: Press Release//
12:56:34 [Ege]
mm: we can meet as chairs and discuss or we can do it in the marketing call
12:56:37 [McCool]
ack e
12:56:44 [Ege]
ek: we should agree on who writes the introduction
12:57:03 [kaz]
s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/425||
12:57:11 [kaz]
i|https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/425|topic: Press Release|
12:57:13 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:57:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:57:57 [kaz]
q+
12:58:03 [McCool]
ack s
12:59:41 [kaz]
ack k
12:59:48 [Ege]
mm: we need to set the narration
13:00:37 [McCool]
q?
13:00:58 [kaz]
s/narration/narrative for the Press Release/
13:01:55 [kaz]
q+
13:02:54 [kaz]
ack k
13:02:58 [Ege]
mm: (writes to the wiki)
13:03:26 [kaz]
i/writes/topic: Meetups/
13:03:43 [kaz]
s/wiki/wiki on the WoT-CG and the WoT-JP CG/
13:04:35 [kaz]
q+
13:06:27 [Ege]
topic: Social Media
13:06:50 [sebastian]
q+
13:06:53 [Ege]
q+
13:07:20 [McCool]
ack k
13:07:32 [Ege]
ek: there are issues with Twitter lately
13:09:37 [Ege]
https://twitter.com/W3C_WoT/status/1678761340423507975
13:09:40 [kaz]
kaz: wondering if we need to work on the other messenger app like LinkedIn, because the more apps we work on, the more effort would be required
13:09:49 [kaz]
i/wondering/scribenick: kaz/
13:10:22 [kaz]
sk: also a bit concerned about working on multiple apps
13:10:29 [kaz]
scribenick: Ege
13:10:50 [Ege]
ek: we can manage multiple platforms from a single app, which reduces the efforts
13:11:02 [Ege]
mm: let's discuss this in the marketing call
13:11:13 [luca_barbato]
scribenick: luca_barbato
13:11:14 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:11:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:11:25 [Ege]
thanks
13:11:35 [kaz]
s/thanks//
13:11:43 [kaz]
topic: Planning
13:13:20 [luca_barbato]
subtopic: Overall structure
13:13:31 [McCool]
q+
13:14:10 [luca_barbato]
sk: I prepared slides (will be uploaded later)
13:14:33 [kaz]
i|@@@slides tbd|
13:14:43 [kaz]
i|I prep|@@@slides tbd|
13:14:51 [kaz]
q+
13:15:05 [Ege]
ack e
13:15:08 [Ege]
ack s
13:15:09 [luca_barbato]
sk: <presents the wot 1.1 structure>
13:16:21 [luca_barbato]
mm: it is also missing a scripting API (that's a NOTE)
13:16:36 [luca_barbato]
q+
13:16:46 [kaz]
ack mc
13:17:28 [Ege]
q+
13:17:40 [luca_barbato]
mm: Architecture contains security assertions
13:18:08 [kaz]
ack lu
13:20:28 [luca_barbato]
lb: API does not implement TD, but consumes
13:20:59 [McCool]
q+
13:20:59 [luca_barbato]
kaz: My suggetion is to not add rdf-like relation to the components
13:21:32 [Ege]
q-
13:21:47 [luca_barbato]
kaz: for the next phase we can try to map the content to the documents
13:22:18 [kaz]
ack k
13:22:19 [luca_barbato]
mm: There two large clusters we have to organize: system and metadata
13:22:51 [kaz]
s/to the documents/to the documents based on the ToC of each document/
13:24:10 [luca_barbato]
sk: my plan is to pick each component and see what we agree about it for the next version
13:24:24 [Ege]
brb
13:24:41 [luca_barbato]
mm: My proposal is to first reorganize the components in the two clusters
13:25:21 [kaz]
s/to the components/to the components within this basic diagram, but simply list all the documents mentioning which is REC-Track, which is Note, which is Use Cases doc as the starting point, which is building blocks, etc., first./
13:25:37 [luca_barbato]
mm: - System : Architecture, Discovery, Security, Use-Cases
13:25:38 [kaz]
s/for the next phase/After that, for the next phase,/
13:25:42 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:25:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:25:57 [mjk]
q?
13:26:01 [kaz]
s/brb//
13:26:02 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:26:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:26:43 [luca_barbato]
mm: - Metadata : TD, Bindings, Profiles (maybe)
13:26:43 [kaz]
s/to not add/not to add/
13:26:43 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:26:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:26:50 [luca_barbato]
mm: profile may apply to both groups
13:27:34 [kaz]
s/try to map the content to the documents/see what is described within which document/
13:27:42 [ryuichi]
ryuichi has joined #wot
13:27:42 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:27:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:28:35 [kaz]
q+
13:28:38 [kaz]
ack mc
13:28:40 [McCool]
ack m
13:29:50 [luca_barbato]
mm
13:30:01 [luca_barbato]
mm: it is ok to focus on a cluster at time
13:30:48 [luca_barbato]
kaz: I think this categorization is a good approach to start
13:31:24 [luca_barbato]
kaz: we should think which are building blocks and which are starting points (e.g. Security is a starting point, TD is a building block)
13:31:44 [luca_barbato]
kaz: a third category, Guideline could be also good to add
13:31:57 [luca_barbato]
q+
13:31:58 [Mizushima]
+1 Kaz
13:32:29 [kaz]
ack k
13:32:31 [kaz]
q+
13:32:38 [luca_barbato]
mm: we have to discuss in the context of the metadata cluster what profile involves
13:33:53 [luca_barbato]
kaz: UseCase is a starting point of the spec work
13:34:44 [luca_barbato]
kaz: profiles, that help interoperability come the last
13:36:14 [luca_barbato]
mm: Security comes across the different clusters
13:36:27 [kaz]
ack k
13:37:26 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:37:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:38:17 [luca_barbato]
lb: We should agree of what profiles fit
13:38:47 [mjk]
q?
13:39:06 [luca_barbato]
mm: We discuss before a long time, we focus first on interoperability
13:39:32 [kaz]
q+
13:39:36 [kaz]
ack l
13:40:04 [luca_barbato]
lb: hopefully we won't need specific profiles for Discovery
13:40:38 [luca_barbato]
kaz: I suggest to not put profiles in this diagram today
13:41:14 [Ege]
q+
13:41:21 [kaz]
ack k
13:41:51 [Mizushima]
q+
13:41:52 [luca_barbato]
mm: we have to keep in mind that we want to support bindings from other organization
13:41:59 [kaz]
s/to not put/not putting/
13:42:59 [kaz]
q+
13:43:19 [kaz]
ack e
13:43:32 [luca_barbato]
ege: we agreed to not have a separate binding template document
13:44:10 [luca_barbato]
ege: the binding template will be part of TD
13:44:43 [mjk]
q+
13:46:17 [luca_barbato]
mm: We should call it Binding Registry instead of Binding Templates Registry
13:46:57 [McCool]
(time check - 15m left)
13:48:28 [McCool]
q+
13:48:32 [luca_barbato]
miz: we should first thing of the purpose of WoT 2.0 and then think on what to map to the document
13:48:36 [kaz]
ack mi
13:50:13 [Ege]
q+
13:50:31 [luca_barbato]
kaz: the WoT 2.0 had been discussed in the charter, we didn't state explicitly about the Binding Registry, so we can start today to keep it a Binding Templates document until we have full consensu on the Registry
13:51:36 [Ege]
q-
13:51:38 [kaz]
ack k
13:51:41 [kaz]
ack mj
13:52:17 [luca_barbato]
mjk: I wonder what about TM, are we going to have a separate document for it?
13:53:31 [mjk]
ack mjk
13:53:40 [kaz]
s/I wonder what about/That makes sense to me too. In addition, I wonder what about/
13:54:20 [Ege]
q+
13:54:40 [kaz]
q+
13:54:43 [kaz]
ack mc
13:55:25 [luca_barbato]
mm: Back to Mizushima's point, we have to decide our focus on greenfield devices, and we need to figure out if we have gaps (e.g. Onboarding)
13:56:31 [luca_barbato]
ege: I think we should not restrict us to brownfield devices
13:56:53 [kaz]
ack e
13:56:59 [luca_barbato]
.. but not overfocus on greenfield
13:57:36 [luca_barbato]
ege: Everything that target Consumer is greenfield
13:57:39 [luca_barbato]
q+
13:58:17 [mjk]
q+
13:59:15 [luca_barbato]
ege: Onboarding may be too big to tackle
13:59:36 [luca_barbato]
mm: We should experiment more on onbording to have an idea
14:00:10 [luca_barbato]
kaz: We should focus on the expectation from the industry
14:00:33 [luca_barbato]
kaz: and rely on the use-cases to extract requirements that lead to decisions
14:00:33 [kaz]
ack k
14:01:50 [kaz]
s/We should focus on the expectation/Agree that we need to clarify our scope and target areas, but we should start with the expectations/
14:02:01 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:02:08 [kaz]
q?
14:02:08 [kaz]
ack lu
14:02:57 [McCool]
(time check - we are now over)
14:05:57 [luca_barbato]
lb: We should make sure to make sure what we keep providing building blocks people can mix and match as needed (e.g. not using scripting API or TM)
14:06:42 [McCool]
(sorry, have to drop)
14:06:47 [mjk]
ack mjk
14:08:46 [kaz]
[adjourned]
14:08:51 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:08:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
16:30:14 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wot
16:38:55 [kaz]
kaz has joined #wot