11:58:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
11:58:12 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-irc
11:58:40 <kaz> meeting: WoT-IG/WG
11:58:49 <kaz> s|IG/WG|WG/IG|
11:59:14 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Luca_Barbato
12:03:52 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster
12:04:33 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot
12:04:59 <mlagally> mlagally has joined #wot
12:05:06 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch, Ege_Korkan
12:05:09 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot
12:05:20 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
12:05:39 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
12:05:43 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:05:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:07:15 <kaz> chair: McCool, Sebastian, Koster
12:07:37 <kaz> scribenick: Luca_barbato
12:07:50 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot
12:07:59 <luca_barbato> topic: Minutes
12:08:08 <luca_barbato> mm: Any objections to publish the minutes?
12:08:15 <luca_barbato> <no objections>
12:08:29 <kaz> i|Any|-> https://www.w3.org/2023/07/05-wot-minutes.html July-5|
12:08:40 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:08:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:08:52 <luca_barbato> topic: Cancellations
12:09:18 <ktoumura> ktoumura has joined #wot
12:09:33 <kaz> q+
12:09:52 <luca_barbato> mm: No changes to the cancellations
12:10:05 <kaz> ack k
12:10:09 <luca_barbato> kaz: People should clarify their holiday/vacation schedules
12:10:39 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner, Kunihiko_Toumura
12:10:47 <luca_barbato> mm: We should avoid conflicts with national holidays
12:10:50 <sebastian> sebastian has joined #wot
12:11:13 <kaz> q+
12:11:38 <kaz> ack k
12:11:45 <Ege> q+
12:12:15 <kaz> ack e
12:12:24 <McCool> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Cancellations_and_Schedule_Updates
12:12:30 <Ege> mm: people should put their unavailability
12:12:50 <Ege> ... since we are approaching the holiday period
12:12:58 <luca_barbato> topic: New charter review status
12:13:00 <Ege> topic: New Charter Review
12:13:02 <kaz> s/ability/ability on the Cancellation section of the main wiki above/
12:13:04 <kaz> q+
12:14:05 <luca_barbato> scribenick: Ege
12:14:25 <kaz> i/people should put/scribenick: Ege/
12:14:43 <kaz> s/topic: New Charter Review//
12:14:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:14:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:14:58 <Ege> mm: we can make modifications
12:15:14 <kaz> s/modifications/modifications to the separate detail plan doc/
12:15:31 <Ege> kaz: we have received 6 comments
12:16:30 <Ege> ... we should put my name, table is also updated with some captions
12:17:32 <Ege> ... we should change our specs to proposed recommendation
12:19:41 <Ege> mm: I think I deleted some parts by mistake
12:20:06 <kaz> i|we have rece|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/118 wot-charter-drafts PR 118 - Update wot-wg-2023-draft.html based on the TiLT comments|
12:20:30 <sebastian> q+
12:20:56 <Ege> mm: does the group agree with this
12:20:57 <kaz> ack k
12:21:15 <Ege> sk: these changes are fine
12:22:36 <dape> dape has joined #wot
12:22:51 <luca_barbato> q+
12:22:59 <kaz> q+
12:23:01 <kaz> ack s
12:23:05 <Ege> mm: I can align some small textual improvements
12:23:16 <Ege> sk: can we change the list of deliverables?
12:24:18 <Ege> ... we do not have anyone to take care of the profile work at the moment
12:24:54 <kaz> ack lu
12:25:11 <Ege> lb: I can take of the profile if no one wants to
12:25:38 <matsuda> matsuda has joined #wot
12:25:46 <Ege> kaz: we should not change the content so much at this point
12:25:53 <Ege> ... we can make clarification later on
12:26:41 <kaz> s/take of/take care of/
12:26:48 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:26:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:27:22 <McCool> proposal: Merge wot PR#118 to update the draft 2023 charter to address TiLT (W3M) feedback.
12:27:51 <McCool> proposal: Merge wot PR#118 to update the draft 2023 charter to address TilT (W3M/volunteers) feedback.
12:28:16 <McCool> resolution: Merge wot PR#118 to update the draft 2023 charter to address TilT (W3M/volunteers) feedback.
12:29:26 <kaz> q+
12:29:38 <Ege> topic: TPAC
12:30:02 <Ege> subtopic: Accesibility
12:30:03 <Ege> q+
12:32:21 <kaz> ack e
12:33:28 <Ege> mm: which slot should we pick for the accesibility
12:33:42 <sebastian> q+
12:34:03 <Ege> ... we can pick our slot on thursday afternoon
12:34:20 <kaz> ack k
12:34:34 <kaz> q+
12:35:09 <Ege> ek: I would prefer to use our slots for WoT specific discussions
12:35:10 <Ege> q+
12:35:38 <Ege> ack s
12:35:55 <Ege> kaz: Our charter says that accesibility is very important
12:36:11 <dape> q+  to remote access for Joint Calls
12:36:50 <kaz> ack k
12:38:15 <Ege> Thursday 14.09 at 11:30 – 13:00 Friday 15.09 at 11:30 – 13:00 and at 17:00 – 18:00
12:38:15 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot
12:38:23 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
12:38:50 <kaz> s/important/important, and they're getting interested in accessibility for WoT services as well as ordinary Web contents. So it's good timing to have a joint meeting with them in person during TPAC 2023./
12:38:53 <kaz> ack k
12:39:05 <kaz> q+
12:39:52 <kaz> q-
12:40:02 <kaz> ack e
12:40:09 <kaz> q+
12:40:14 <Ege> mm: let´s propose this slot for now
12:40:32 <dape> ack Danrancan
12:40:37 <dape> ack dape
12:40:37 <Zakim> dape, you wanted to remote access for Joint Calls
12:40:54 <kaz> q-
12:40:59 <Ege> ... they also want to consider non-browser applications thanks to WoT
12:41:31 <Ege> ek: I think we can pick their slots still
12:41:35 <Ege> subtopic: WoT CG
12:41:43 <Ege> ek: there are slots available from CG as well
12:41:50 <kaz> present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura, Tetsushi_Matsuda
12:41:55 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:41:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:42:11 <kaz> q?
12:42:15 <kaz> q+ Ege
12:42:25 <kaz> q+ kaz
12:43:15 <Ege> mm: let's put this into the agenda
12:43:20 <Ege> ek: I can organize
12:43:29 <kaz> ack e
12:43:32 <Ege> ek: should we remove the categories above?
12:43:39 <Ege> mm: yes, you can fill the details later on
12:44:27 <kaz> q?
12:45:23 <Ege> kaz: I cannot join due to conflicts but a chair should join
12:45:29 <Ege> sk: I can attend
12:45:40 <Ege> q+
12:46:10 <Ege> ack k
12:46:11 <Ege> ack e
12:46:43 <kaz> s/conflicts/conflicts with the MEIG/
12:46:53 <Ege> mm: any objections to meeting slot?
12:46:55 <kaz> q+
12:47:41 <kaz> ack k
12:48:08 <kaz> q+
12:48:47 <Ege> subtopic: JSON-LD
12:49:33 <Ege> mm: what topics do we have?
12:49:43 <Ege> kaz: the breakout session and the joint discussion is different
12:49:54 <Ege> mm: ege and sebastian can you update it
12:50:41 <Ege> subtopic: SDW
12:50:54 <Ege> kaz: we can collaborate on WebVMT
12:51:08 <kaz> s/VMT/VMT, GeoPose, etc./
12:52:12 <kaz> q+
12:52:46 <kaz> topic: Publication
12:52:47 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-discovery/
12:52:47 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-architecture11/
12:52:47 <kaz> https://www.w3.org/TR/wot-thing-description11/
12:52:56 <kaz> See also https://www.w3.org/news/2023/call-for-review-wot-architecture-1-1-thing-description-1-1-and-wot-discovery-are-w3c-proposed-recommendations/
12:52:58 <sebastian> q+
12:53:03 <Ege> mm: we have news, as linked above
12:53:23 <kaz> ack k
12:53:28 <kaz> ack s
12:54:02 <Ege> sk: thank you kaz for doing the work
12:54:07 <Ege> kaz: thank you chairs and editors
12:54:10 <Ege> ack s
12:54:18 <kaz> i/disc/mm: 3 Proposed RECs were published yesterday on July 11./
12:54:25 <Ege> q+
12:54:32 <kaz> s/ chairs/, chairs/
12:54:35 <sebastian> q+
12:54:40 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:54:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:54:48 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/425
12:55:06 <kaz> s/Accesibility/Accessibility/
12:55:14 <McCool> https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/425
12:55:32 <kaz> i/3 Proposed/scribenick: kaz/
12:55:43 <Ege> topic: Press Release
12:55:46 <kaz> i/we have news/scribenick: Ege/
12:55:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:55:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:55:56 <sebastian> q?
12:56:27 <kaz> s/topic: Press Release//
12:56:34 <Ege> mm: we can meet as chairs and discuss or we can do it in the marketing call
12:56:37 <McCool> ack e
12:56:44 <Ege> ek: we should agree on who writes the introduction
12:57:03 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/425||
12:57:11 <kaz> i|https://github.com/w3c/wot-marketing/issues/425|topic: Press Release|
12:57:13 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:57:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
12:57:57 <kaz> q+
12:58:03 <McCool> ack s
12:59:41 <kaz> ack k
12:59:48 <Ege> mm: we need to set the narration
13:00:37 <McCool> q?
13:00:58 <kaz> s/narration/narrative for the Press Release/
13:01:55 <kaz> q+
13:02:54 <kaz> ack k
13:02:58 <Ege> mm: (writes to the wiki)
13:03:26 <kaz> i/writes/topic: Meetups/
13:03:43 <kaz> s/wiki/wiki on the WoT-CG and the WoT-JP CG/
13:04:35 <kaz> q+
13:06:27 <Ege> topic: Social Media
13:06:50 <sebastian> q+
13:06:53 <Ege> q+
13:07:20 <McCool> ack k
13:07:32 <Ege> ek: there are issues with Twitter lately
13:09:37 <Ege> https://twitter.com/W3C_WoT/status/1678761340423507975
13:09:40 <kaz> kaz: wondering if we need to work on the other messenger app like LinkedIn, because the more apps we work on, the more effort would be required
13:09:49 <kaz> i/wondering/scribenick: kaz/
13:10:22 <kaz> sk: also a bit concerned about working on multiple apps
13:10:29 <kaz> scribenick: Ege
13:10:50 <Ege> ek: we can manage multiple platforms from a single app, which reduces the efforts
13:11:02 <Ege> mm: let's discuss this in the marketing call
13:11:13 <luca_barbato> scribenick: luca_barbato
13:11:14 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:11:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:11:25 <Ege> thanks
13:11:35 <kaz> s/thanks//
13:11:43 <kaz> topic: Planning
13:13:20 <luca_barbato> subtopic: Overall structure
13:13:31 <McCool> q+
13:14:10 <luca_barbato> sk: I prepared slides (will be uploaded later)
13:14:33 <kaz> i|@@@slides tbd|
13:14:43 <kaz> i|I prep|@@@slides tbd|
13:14:51 <kaz> q+
13:15:05 <Ege> ack e
13:15:08 <Ege> ack s
13:15:09 <luca_barbato> sk: <presents the wot 1.1 structure>
13:16:21 <luca_barbato> mm: it is also missing a scripting API (that's a NOTE)
13:16:36 <luca_barbato> q+
13:16:46 <kaz> ack mc
13:17:28 <Ege> q+
13:17:40 <luca_barbato> mm: Architecture contains security assertions
13:18:08 <kaz> ack lu
13:20:28 <luca_barbato> lb: API does not implement TD, but consumes
13:20:59 <McCool> q+
13:20:59 <luca_barbato> kaz: My suggetion is to not add rdf-like relation to the components
13:21:32 <Ege> q-
13:21:47 <luca_barbato> kaz: for the next phase we can try to map the content to the documents
13:22:18 <kaz> ack k
13:22:19 <luca_barbato> mm: There two large clusters we have to organize: system and metadata
13:22:51 <kaz> s/to the documents/to the documents based on the ToC of each document/
13:24:10 <luca_barbato> sk: my plan is to pick each component and see what we agree about it for the next version
13:24:24 <Ege> brb
13:24:41 <luca_barbato> mm: My proposal is to first reorganize the components in the two clusters
13:25:21 <kaz> s/to the components/to the components within this basic diagram, but simply list all the documents mentioning which is REC-Track, which is Note, which is Use Cases doc as the starting point, which is building blocks, etc., first./
13:25:37 <luca_barbato> mm: - System : Architecture, Discovery, Security, Use-Cases
13:25:38 <kaz> s/for the next phase/After that, for the next phase,/
13:25:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:25:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:25:57 <mjk> q?
13:26:01 <kaz> s/brb//
13:26:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:26:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:26:43 <luca_barbato> mm: - Metadata : TD, Bindings, Profiles (maybe)
13:26:43 <kaz> s/to not add/not to add/
13:26:43 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:26:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:26:50 <luca_barbato> mm: profile may apply to both groups
13:27:34 <kaz> s/try to map the content to the documents/see what is described within which document/
13:27:42 <ryuichi> ryuichi has joined #wot
13:27:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:27:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:28:35 <kaz> q+
13:28:38 <kaz> ack mc
13:28:40 <McCool> ack m
13:29:50 <luca_barbato> mm
13:30:01 <luca_barbato> mm: it is ok to focus on a cluster at time
13:30:48 <luca_barbato> kaz: I think this categorization is a good approach to start
13:31:24 <luca_barbato> kaz: we should think which are building blocks and which are starting points (e.g. Security is a starting point, TD is a building block)
13:31:44 <luca_barbato> kaz: a third category, Guideline could be also good to add
13:31:57 <luca_barbato> q+
13:31:58 <Mizushima> +1 Kaz
13:32:29 <kaz> ack k
13:32:31 <kaz> q+
13:32:38 <luca_barbato> mm: we have to discuss in the context of the metadata cluster what profile involves
13:33:53 <luca_barbato> kaz: UseCase is a starting point of the spec work
13:34:44 <luca_barbato> kaz: profiles, that help interoperability come the last
13:36:14 <luca_barbato> mm: Security comes across the different clusters
13:36:27 <kaz> ack k
13:37:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:37:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:38:17 <luca_barbato> lb: We should agree of what profiles fit
13:38:47 <mjk> q?
13:39:06 <luca_barbato> mm: We discuss before a long time, we focus first on interoperability
13:39:32 <kaz> q+
13:39:36 <kaz> ack l
13:40:04 <luca_barbato> lb: hopefully we won't need specific profiles for Discovery
13:40:38 <luca_barbato> kaz: I suggest to not put profiles in this diagram today
13:41:14 <Ege> q+
13:41:21 <kaz> ack k
13:41:51 <Mizushima> q+
13:41:52 <luca_barbato> mm: we have to keep in mind that we want to support bindings from other organization
13:41:59 <kaz> s/to not put/not putting/
13:42:59 <kaz> q+
13:43:19 <kaz> ack e
13:43:32 <luca_barbato> ege: we agreed to not have a separate binding template document
13:44:10 <luca_barbato> ege: the binding template will be part of TD
13:44:43 <mjk> q+
13:46:17 <luca_barbato> mm: We should call it Binding Registry instead of Binding Templates Registry
13:46:57 <McCool> (time check - 15m left)
13:48:28 <McCool> q+
13:48:32 <luca_barbato> miz: we should first thing of the purpose of WoT 2.0 and then think on what to map to the document
13:48:36 <kaz> ack mi
13:50:13 <Ege> q+
13:50:31 <luca_barbato> kaz: the WoT 2.0 had been discussed in the charter, we didn't state explicitly about the Binding Registry, so we can start today to keep it a Binding Templates document until we have full consensu on the Registry
13:51:36 <Ege> q-
13:51:38 <kaz> ack k
13:51:41 <kaz> ack mj
13:52:17 <luca_barbato> mjk: I wonder what about TM, are we going to have a separate document for it?
13:53:31 <mjk> ack mjk
13:53:40 <kaz> s/I wonder what about/That makes sense to me too. In addition, I wonder what about/
13:54:20 <Ege> q+
13:54:40 <kaz> q+
13:54:43 <kaz> ack mc
13:55:25 <luca_barbato> mm: Back to Mizushima's point, we have to decide our focus on greenfield devices, and we need to figure out if we have gaps (e.g. Onboarding)
13:56:31 <luca_barbato> ege: I think we should not restrict us to brownfield devices
13:56:53 <kaz> ack e
13:56:59 <luca_barbato> .. but not overfocus on greenfield
13:57:36 <luca_barbato> ege: Everything that target Consumer is greenfield
13:57:39 <luca_barbato> q+
13:58:17 <mjk> q+
13:59:15 <luca_barbato> ege: Onboarding may be too big to tackle
13:59:36 <luca_barbato> mm: We should experiment more on onbording to have an idea
14:00:10 <luca_barbato> kaz: We should focus on the expectation from the industry
14:00:33 <luca_barbato> kaz: and rely on the use-cases to extract requirements that lead to decisions
14:00:33 <kaz> ack k
14:01:50 <kaz> s/We should focus on the expectation/Agree that we need to clarify our scope and target areas, but we should start with the expectations/
14:02:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:02:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:02:08 <kaz> q?
14:02:08 <kaz> ack lu
14:02:57 <McCool> (time check - we are now over)
14:05:57 <luca_barbato> lb: We should make sure to make sure what we keep providing building blocks people can mix and match as needed (e.g. not using scripting API or TM)
14:06:42 <McCool> (sorry, have to drop)
14:06:47 <mjk> ack mjk
14:08:46 <kaz> [adjourned]
14:08:51 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:08:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/07/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
16:30:14 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot
16:38:55 <kaz> kaz has joined #wot