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13:48:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/06/22-wpwg-irc
13:49:58 <Ian> Meeting: Web Payments Working Group
13:50:07 <Ian> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/Agenda-20230622
13:50:13 <Ian> Scribe: Ian
13:51:27 <Ian> agenda+ TPAC Planning
13:51:34 <Ian> agenda+ Status of SPC CR
13:51:41 <Ian> agenda+ Status of Charter review
13:51:47 <Ian> agenda+ Payment Request pull requests
13:51:52 <Ian> agenda+ Mozilla Developer Network
13:52:00 <Ian> agenda+ Next meeting
13:57:38 <Ian> present+
13:59:41 <Ian> present+ Joel_di_Manno
13:59:41 <Ian> present+ Arman_Aygen
14:00:09 <Ian> present+ Amine_Khalfaoui
14:00:53 <Ian> present+ Nick_Telford-Reed
14:00:57 <SuzieAS> SuzieAS has joined #wpwg
14:00:58 <Ian> present+ Franck_Delache
14:01:10 <Ian> present+ Rouslan_Solomakhin
14:01:19 <Ian> present+ Stephen_McGruer
14:01:40 <fdelache> fdelache has joined #wpwg
14:01:45 <Ian> present+ Arnaud_Crouzet
14:02:01 <Anne> Anne has joined #wpwg
14:02:05 <Ian> present+ Praveena_Subrahmanyam
14:02:08 <Ian> present+ David_Benoit
14:02:11 <Ian> present+ Anne_Pouillard
14:02:23 <Ian> present+ Suzie-Annezo_Sebire
14:02:32 <Ian> Chair: Nick
14:02:37 <Ian> present+ Bastien_Latge
14:02:44 <Ian> present+ Doug_Fisher
14:02:51 <clinton> clinton has joined #WPWG
14:03:17 <Bastien> Bastien has joined #WPWG
14:04:07 <Rolf> Rolf has joined #wpwg
14:05:18 <Ian> present+ Michael_Horne
14:05:18 <Ian> present+ Jean-Luc_di_Manno
14:05:18 <Ian> present+ Jeff_Owenson
14:05:50 <Ian> zakim, who's here?
14:05:50 <Zakim> Present: Ian, Joel_di_Manno, Arman_Aygen, Amine_Khalfaoui, Nick_Telford-Reed, Franck_Delache, Rouslan_Solomakhin, Stephen_McGruer, Arnaud_Crouzet, Praveena_Subrahmanyam,
14:05:50 <Zakim> ... David_Benoit, Anne_Pouillard, Suzie-Annezo_Sebire, Bastien_Latge, Doug_Fisher, Michael_Horne, Jean-Luc_di_Manno, Jeff_Owenson
14:05:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rolf, Bastien, clinton, Anne, fdelache, SuzieAS, RRSAgent, Zakim, pea1358, canton_, benoit_, dlehn, TimCappalli, Github, sexymummy69, imlostlmao, npd, hober,
14:05:50 <Zakim> ... wanderview, smcgruer_[EST], ljharb, hadleybeeman, tobie, rbyers, Dongwoo, nicktr, slightlyoff, weiler, Ian
14:06:01 <Ian> zakim, take up item 1
14:06:02 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- TPAC Planning -- taken up [from Ian]
14:06:09 <Ian> present+ Rolf_Lindemann
14:06:22 <Ian> -> https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/registration.html Registration
14:06:45 <Ian> present+ Clinton_Allen
14:06:58 <nicktr> q?
14:07:04 <Bastien> present+
14:09:09 <Ian> present+ Gerhard_Oosthuizen
14:09:13 <Ian> zakim, close item 1
14:09:13 <Zakim> agendum 1, TPAC Planning, closed
14:09:14 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:09:14 <Zakim> 2. Status of SPC CR [from Ian]
14:09:16 <Ian> zakim, take up item 2
14:09:16 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Status of SPC CR -- taken up [from Ian]
14:09:27 <Ian> * CR Published
14:09:39 <Ian> https://www.w3.org/press-releases/2023/spc-cr/#testimonials
14:09:53 <JeanLuc> JeanLuc has joined #WPWG
14:10:29 <nicktr> scribenick: nicktr
14:10:33 <Ian> present+ Jorge_Vargas
14:10:38 <nicktr> ian: SPC is now a CR
14:10:56 <nicktr> ian: it is a "snapshot" - a version in a moment of time
14:11:07 <nicktr> ...we have started adding new PR
14:11:16 <Ian> https://www.w3.org/TR/secure-payment-confirmation/
14:11:16 <nicktr> ...including "isSPCAvailable?"
14:11:32 <nicktr> ... so it now says "DRAFT" as a status
14:11:52 <nicktr> ...indicating that horizontal review and CfC is required
14:12:21 <nicktr> ian: at some point, we will go back through CR to achieve horizontal review and CFC
14:12:41 <nicktr> ...and then when we have a second implementation, we will advance to REC
14:12:53 <Ian> Ian: We merged https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/pull/233
14:13:02 <Ian> Stephen: We expect to ship in Chrome 117
14:13:08 <Ian> ...stable in early September
14:13:23 <nicktr> ian: any questions on the status ?
14:13:35 <smcgruer_[EST]> s/ship/ship isSecurePaymentAvailable/
14:13:59 <nicktr> ian: as an aside, the W3C adopted its new process last week
14:14:01 <Ian> https://www.w3.org/2023/Process-20230612/
14:14:16 <nicktr> ian: this is first version of process with the Director
14:14:25 <nicktr> ...this is process-- timbl
14:15:04 <nicktr> ian: we have been through the formal objection process handled by a council (which was a "beta") and it is now the norm
14:15:07 <Ian> zakim, close item 2
14:15:07 <Zakim> agendum 2, Status of SPC CR, closed
14:15:08 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:15:08 <Zakim> 3. Status of Charter review [from Ian]
14:15:11 <Ian> zakim, take up item 3
14:15:11 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Status of Charter review -- taken up [from Ian]
14:15:31 <nicktr> ian: two hours before the end of the review period, we got a formal objection
14:15:58 <nicktr> ...we can continue to work (our charter is good through Dec 24)
14:16:17 <nicktr> ...staff must now initiate the process to review the formal objection
14:16:29 <Ian> present+ Sameer_Tare
14:16:32 <nicktr> ...it was not made public so only members can see the objection
14:18:15 <nicktr> ian: we will create a team report, which the council will review (ian shares an example of a previous report)
14:18:19 <clinton> q+
14:19:20 <nicktr> ian: councils are now efficient, and this is the third objection from the same organisation
14:19:25 <Ian> ack clinton
14:20:10 <SameerT> SameerT has joined #wpwg
14:20:32 <nicktr> clinton: could you say more about the objections?
14:20:44 <nicktr> ian: we had some editorial suggestions
14:21:08 <nicktr> ian: FIME suggested it would be helpful for the group to work on UI requirements
14:21:41 <nicktr> ian: Jean-Luc and I chatted. I have prepared a response.
14:22:13 <nicktr> q?
14:22:21 <Ian> present+ John_Bradley
14:22:54 <nicktr> ian: I will write up the history of the objections for the council
14:23:23 <nicktr> ian: if anyone wants more detail - please contact Ian
14:23:45 <Ian> zakim, close item 3
14:23:45 <Zakim> agendum 3, Status of Charter review, closed
14:23:45 <nicktr> ian: the big q: how long will this take to resolve? a: we hope well before TPAC
14:23:46 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:23:46 <Zakim> 4. Payment Request pull requests [from Ian]
14:23:51 <Ian> zakim, take up item 4
14:23:51 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Payment Request pull requests -- taken up [from Ian]
14:23:59 <nicktr> scribenick: ian
14:24:15 <Ian> -> https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/pull/1009 User activation
14:24:31 <Ian> smcgruer_[EST]: Recall that Payment request requires a "user activation".
14:24:46 <Ian> ...the user needs to have interacted with the page recently
14:25:03 <Ian> ...we've heard that this restriction can be problematic, notably in redirect flows
14:25:14 <Ian> ...imagine a site that aggregates merchants
14:25:34 <Ian> ...the aggregator might redirect the user to a specific merchant, and the merchant doesn't want to force the user to interact with the site again
14:25:58 <Ian> ...we spoke a lot with our security/privacy team internally and our conclusion in Chrome is that the use cases are worth the (small) risk
14:26:26 <Ian> ...pull request 1009 changes PR API to not require user activation (though user agent MAY require a user activation)
14:27:22 <Ian> Ian: How will SPC change?
14:27:35 <Ian> smcgruer_[EST]: We eventually will change the spec, but no behavioral change
14:28:09 <SameerT> +1
14:28:09 <Ian> nicktr: Can you speak a bit to the risks?
14:28:48 <Ian> smcgruer_[EST]: We have, in general, been looking at what user activation protects against. My understanding is that it doesn't protect against much, in part because it's trivial to get a user to interact with your page in some capacity.
14:29:09 <Ian> ...but user activation protects against two things (1) spam
14:29:31 <Ian> ...for example, we saw good results from making popups subject to user activation
14:30:06 <Ian> ...we have mitigations around Payment Request to not allow repeated calls to the API. You get "one for free" and afterwards require user activations
14:30:17 <Ian> ...(2) the second big risk is phishing
14:30:44 <Ian> ...we have a standard anti-clickjacking mechanism to prevent against this
14:31:14 <Ian> nickTR: From a user activation perspective...the user activaltion in PR API is in the modal.  Is user activation within the modal, or anywhere on the site?
14:31:20 <Ian> smcgruer_[EST]: The user activation is pre-modal
14:31:25 <Ian> q+
14:31:27 <Ian> ack me
14:31:50 <Ian> Ian: Can you do user activation through Web Driver?
14:33:06 <Ian> smcgruer_[EST]: Web driver not active for users. And it cannot be activated within a page; it is triggered externally.
14:33:33 <Ian> q?
14:34:19 <Ian> Proposal: Update Payment Request API to allow but not require user activation prior to show().
14:34:26 <nicktr> +1
14:34:29 <Anne> +1
14:34:47 <praveenas> praveenas has joined #wpwg
14:34:51 <Ian> [Versioning and other pull requests]
14:36:10 <Arman> Arman has joined #WPWG
14:37:47 <Ian> https://www.w3.org/TR/payment-request-1.1/
14:38:03 <Ian> https://w3c.github.io/payment-request/
14:38:03 <nicktr> scribe: ian, nicktr
14:38:41 <nicktr> ian: options: mark as non-normative, put in V1.1, <did I miss one>
14:39:02 <nicktr> ian: we know Marcos would prefer the former
14:39:24 <nicktr> ian: I am scheduling a meeting with the spec editors and then we will revert to the group
14:40:06 <nicktr> ian: questions?
14:40:21 <Ian> rouslan: In Chrome, we also prefer unversioned specs
14:40:49 <Ian> smcgruer_[EST]: We generally care about the Editor's draft most
14:42:20 <nicktr> ian: we will have to address both the privacy and 118n implications if we reintroduce addresses
14:42:31 <Ian> zakim, close this item
14:42:31 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
14:42:32 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:42:32 <Zakim> 5. Mozilla Developer Network [from Ian]
14:42:39 <Ian> zakim, take up item 5
14:42:39 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Mozilla Developer Network -- taken up [from Ian]
14:44:28 <Ian> https://github.com/w3c/secure-payment-confirmation/blob/main/explainer.md
14:45:09 <Ian> ACTION: Nick to work with Ian and editors on MDN data
14:45:37 <Ian> zakim, take up next item
14:45:37 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Next meeting -- taken up [from Ian]
14:45:55 <Ian> 20 July
14:46:22 <Ian> RRSAGENT, make minutes
14:46:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/22-wpwg-minutes.html Ian
14:46:25 <Ian> RRSAGENT, set logs public
14:46:44 <Ian> rrsagent, bye
14:46:44 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/06/22-wpwg-actions.rdf :
14:46:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Nick to work with Ian and editors on MDN data [1]
14:46:44 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/06/22-wpwg-irc#T14-45-09
14:46:44 <Ian> zakim, bye
14:46:44 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Ian, Joel_di_Manno, Arman_Aygen, Amine_Khalfaoui, Nick_Telford-Reed, Franck_Delache, Rouslan_Solomakhin, Stephen_McGruer,
14:46:44 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wpwg