17:05:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-at
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17:05:26 <jugglinmike> rrsagent, make log public
17:05:35 <jugglinmike> Zakim, start the meeting
17:05:35 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:05:37 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jugglinmike
17:05:52 <Sam_Shaw> Sam_Shaw has joined #aria-at
17:05:54 <jugglinmike> Meeting: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group Weekly Teleconference
17:06:00 <jugglinmike> present+ jugglinmike
17:06:01 <Sam_Shaw> present+
17:06:02 <Matt_King> zakim, start meeting
17:06:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:06:04 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King
17:06:15 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
17:06:21 <Matt_King> CHAIR: Matt King
17:06:33 <jugglinmike> Meeting: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group Weekly Teleconference
17:11:17 <jugglinmike> Topic: Status of current test run work
17:11:28 <jugglinmike> present+ James_Scholes
17:12:34 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Action Menu Button Example Using aria-activedescendant
17:13:03 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: For JAWS and Chrome, we only have one Tester, that's Isa
17:13:47 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: It would be nice if the queue displayed the "date added" because it's difficult to determine what's new
17:14:53 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: we should clean up the test queue
17:15:18 <jugglinmike> subtopic: Color Viewer Slider
17:15:55 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: For JAWS and Firefox, we have two Testers and a number of conflicts
17:17:02 <jugglinmike> present+ IsaDC
17:17:30 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: we discussed this last week, the conflicts are related to "help" text
17:20:03 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Can we clean this up by running as Hadi?
17:20:31 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Possibly; we just need to determine whether there's an underlying issue to be reported
17:20:57 <jugglinmike> s/"help" text/Hint text/
17:21:33 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: testing is complete; there is just the concerns with the "hint" text
17:22:07 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: We discussed this as editorializing last week. We can resolve the conflicts
17:22:58 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Modal Dialog
17:23:15 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Only VoiceOver for macOS and Chrome remains
17:23:25 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: all testing is complete, there is just one conflict
17:26:02 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: It's regarding whether the role "dialog" is conveyed. IsaDC marked this as "no output", but Dylan marked this as passing, even though the output doesn't mention the dialog.
17:26:36 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: The word "dialog" appears in the page title, though, so this is likely why Dylan classified this as "passing"
17:26:50 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: I will update Dylan's input
17:29:52 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Navigation menu button
17:30:20 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: For NVDA and Firefox, all testing is complete, and there are no conflicts. We can move this plan forward!
17:33:42 <jugglinmike> Topic: Test Queue Cleanup
17:34:24 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think it would be really nice if we kept the test queue focused on the tests we actually plan on working on currently.
17:34:48 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That is to say: we shouldn't keep a backlog of work in the test queue because that makes it difficult to maintain
17:35:03 <jugglinmike> Jame_Scholes: I think that makes sense
17:35:06 <jugglinmike> IsaDC: Agreed
17:36:12 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: I think some of these things were added to the queue somewhat aspirationally
17:37:59 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: Let's start by removing the final instance of Disclosure Navigation Menu Example for JAWS and Chrome. That was published in 2021
17:38:03 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Done
17:38:54 <jugglinmike> James_Scholes: I can go through and clean things up--the outdated things that aren't published yet
17:50:02 <jugglinmike> Topic: Integrating automation
17:50:23 <jugglinmike> https://docs.google.com/document/d/10681gMmTM2KmVEw_Je-A4nmRvcqIkB6jgtJ8dt_Pp0M/edit
17:50:54 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This design document is fairly technical. What I'd like to discuss here is a little higher-level
17:51:32 <Sam_Shaw> scribe+
17:52:24 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: Apologies these documents are tough to navigate with all of the comments and edits
17:53:34 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: I think that the issue Matt is talking about, that is most important to consider, is which role is responsible for initiating automated testing
17:54:11 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: Right now, looking at the section titled Workflow proposal, the way its written is "When drafting a Test Plan, Test Admins may assign the new Test Plan to a user named "Response Collector Bot." This user represents the automation system."
17:55:04 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: The reason behind using a fake user to do this, instead of a term like dedicated UI, is it limits the UI we have to designs
17:56:16 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: This would achieve two requirements i have, 1. We only selectively collect results 2. This allows us to prevent a potential confusing state, in which a person is assigned to run a test that a automated machine is running also, how do we do that without the risk on conflicts?
17:56:59 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: To bring it back to what Matts wants us to discuss, is should we give individual testers the ability to initiate automated testing?
17:58:11 <Sam_Shaw> Matt_King: I imagine a initial use case for automation is for a human tester to use the bot to compare against and confirm their results
17:59:35 <Sam_Shaw> Matt_King: I'm not sure how fast this thing will run, but if I imagine opening multiple tabs for each test, and the tester could use the bot as much or as little as they want to help them
18:00:44 <Sam_Shaw> Matt_King: We can train everyone on the nuances, but I thought this might be a case that makes it simpler to have users be able to initiate automation
18:01:50 <Sam_Shaw> jugglinmike: I'm not ready to comment on that, but one risk is that to the extent the system is flaky, is that automation will be in development, it wont be perfect, it will go through various iterations. A tester would need to be aware of this potential for bugs
18:02:12 <Sam_Shaw> JamesScholes present+
18:03:41 <Sam_Shaw> Matt_King: We can continue this discussion on Monday in our Automation meeting
18:05:31 <jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting
18:05:31 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, Sam_Shaw, James_Scholes, IsaDC
18:05:33 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:05:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/21-aria-at-minutes.html Zakim
18:05:41 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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18:06:17 <jugglinmike> rrsagent, make log public
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