IRC log of aria-at on 2023-06-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/06/21-aria-at-irc

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17:05:26 [jugglinmike]

rrsagent, make log public

17:05:35 [jugglinmike]

Zakim, start the meeting

17:05:35 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

17:05:37 [Zakim]

please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jugglinmike

17:05:52 [Sam_Shaw]

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17:05:54 [jugglinmike]

Meeting: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group Weekly Teleconference

17:06:00 [jugglinmike]

present+ jugglinmike

17:06:01 [Sam_Shaw]

present+

17:06:02 [Matt_King]

zakim, start meeting

17:06:02 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, make logs Public

17:06:04 [Zakim]

please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King

17:06:15 [jugglinmike]

scribe+ jugglinmike

17:06:21 [Matt_King]

CHAIR: Matt King

17:06:33 [jugglinmike]

Meeting: ARIA and Assistive Technologies Community Group Weekly Teleconference

17:11:17 [jugglinmike]

Topic: Status of current test run work

17:11:28 [jugglinmike]

present+ James_Scholes

17:12:34 [jugglinmike]

Subtopic: Action Menu Button Example Using aria-activedescendant

17:13:03 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: For JAWS and Chrome, we only have one Tester, that's Isa

17:13:47 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: It would be nice if the queue displayed the "date added" because it's difficult to determine what's new

17:14:53 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: we should clean up the test queue

17:15:18 [jugglinmike]

subtopic: Color Viewer Slider

17:15:55 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: For JAWS and Firefox, we have two Testers and a number of conflicts

17:17:02 [jugglinmike]

present+ IsaDC

17:17:30 [jugglinmike]

IsaDC: we discussed this last week, the conflicts are related to "help" text

17:20:03 [jugglinmike]

Matt_King: Can we clean this up by running as Hadi?

17:20:31 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: Possibly; we just need to determine whether there's an underlying issue to be reported

17:20:57 [jugglinmike]

s/"help" text/Hint text/

17:21:33 [jugglinmike]

IsaDC: testing is complete; there is just the concerns with the "hint" text

17:22:07 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: We discussed this as editorializing last week. We can resolve the conflicts

17:22:58 [jugglinmike]

Subtopic: Modal Dialog

17:23:15 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: Only VoiceOver for macOS and Chrome remains

17:23:25 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: all testing is complete, there is just one conflict

17:26:02 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: It's regarding whether the role "dialog" is conveyed. IsaDC marked this as "no output", but Dylan marked this as passing, even though the output doesn't mention the dialog.

17:26:36 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: The word "dialog" appears in the page title, though, so this is likely why Dylan classified this as "passing"

17:26:50 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: I will update Dylan's input

17:29:52 [jugglinmike]

Subtopic: Navigation menu button

17:30:20 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: For NVDA and Firefox, all testing is complete, and there are no conflicts. We can move this plan forward!

17:33:42 [jugglinmike]

Topic: Test Queue Cleanup

17:34:24 [jugglinmike]

Matt_King: I think it would be really nice if we kept the test queue focused on the tests we actually plan on working on currently.

17:34:48 [jugglinmike]

Matt_King: That is to say: we shouldn't keep a backlog of work in the test queue because that makes it difficult to maintain

17:35:03 [jugglinmike]

Jame_Scholes: I think that makes sense

17:35:06 [jugglinmike]

IsaDC: Agreed

17:36:12 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: I think some of these things were added to the queue somewhat aspirationally

17:37:59 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: Let's start by removing the final instance of Disclosure Navigation Menu Example for JAWS and Chrome. That was published in 2021

17:38:03 [jugglinmike]

Matt_King: Done

17:38:54 [jugglinmike]

James_Scholes: I can go through and clean things up--the outdated things that aren't published yet

17:50:02 [jugglinmike]

Topic: Integrating automation

17:50:23 [jugglinmike]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/10681gMmTM2KmVEw_Je-A4nmRvcqIkB6jgtJ8dt_Pp0M/edit

17:50:54 [jugglinmike]

Matt_King: This design document is fairly technical. What I'd like to discuss here is a little higher-level

17:51:32 [Sam_Shaw]

scribe+

17:52:24 [Sam_Shaw]

jugglinmike: Apologies these documents are tough to navigate with all of the comments and edits

17:53:34 [Sam_Shaw]

jugglinmike: I think that the issue Matt is talking about, that is most important to consider, is which role is responsible for initiating automated testing

17:54:11 [Sam_Shaw]

jugglinmike: Right now, looking at the section titled Workflow proposal, the way its written is "When drafting a Test Plan, Test Admins may assign the new Test Plan to a user named "Response Collector Bot." This user represents the automation system."

17:55:04 [Sam_Shaw]

jugglinmike: The reason behind using a fake user to do this, instead of a term like dedicated UI, is it limits the UI we have to designs

17:56:16 [Sam_Shaw]

jugglinmike: This would achieve two requirements i have, 1. We only selectively collect results 2. This allows us to prevent a potential confusing state, in which a person is assigned to run a test that a automated machine is running also, how do we do that without the risk on conflicts?

17:56:59 [Sam_Shaw]

jugglinmike: To bring it back to what Matts wants us to discuss, is should we give individual testers the ability to initiate automated testing?

17:58:11 [Sam_Shaw]

Matt_King: I imagine a initial use case for automation is for a human tester to use the bot to compare against and confirm their results

17:59:35 [Sam_Shaw]

Matt_King: I'm not sure how fast this thing will run, but if I imagine opening multiple tabs for each test, and the tester could use the bot as much or as little as they want to help them

18:00:44 [Sam_Shaw]

Matt_King: We can train everyone on the nuances, but I thought this might be a case that makes it simpler to have users be able to initiate automation

18:01:50 [Sam_Shaw]

jugglinmike: I'm not ready to comment on that, but one risk is that to the extent the system is flaky, is that automation will be in development, it wont be perfect, it will go through various iterations. A tester would need to be aware of this potential for bugs

18:02:12 [Sam_Shaw]

JamesScholes present+

18:03:41 [Sam_Shaw]

Matt_King: We can continue this discussion on Monday in our Automation meeting

18:05:31 [jugglinmike]

Zakim, end the meeting

18:05:31 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, Sam_Shaw, James_Scholes, IsaDC

18:05:33 [Zakim]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

18:05:34 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/21-aria-at-minutes.html Zakim

18:05:41 [Zakim]

I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye

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18:06:17 [jugglinmike]

rrsagent, make log public

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