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17:59:47 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/06/20-aria-apg-irc
17:59:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:59:48 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King
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18:00:01 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
18:00:07 <Matt_King> CHAIR: Matt King
18:00:13 <Matt_King> present+
18:00:19 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
18:00:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/20-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
18:06:05 <jugglinmike> present+
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18:08:03 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
18:10:26 <jugglinmike> Topic: Status of Coming Site Updates
18:11:07 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: The latest deploy is completed
18:11:20 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I will validate the issues listed here in the agenda
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18:13:00 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: The link to the new "Landmarks" pattern is broken; it returns a 404/"Document not found error"
18:14:07 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: We've only just now identified this, and we're currently investigating why it occurred in order to understand how to fix it and prevent similar errors in the future
18:14:42 <jugglinmike> Topic: Pull request reviews
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18:15:13 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I've merged "PR 2724: Example Pages: Change Javascript to JavaScript in h2 elements by mcking65" https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2724
18:15:34 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Skipto menu on all pages: Update skipto.js script to version 5.1.6
18:15:39 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2680
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18:16:30 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This was awaiting review
18:16:49 <CurtBellew> present+
18:17:10 <daniel-montalvo> present+ Daniel
18:17:30 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: ariellalgilmore has approved the visual appearance. That's what I was looking for. Maybe this is ready to go
18:17:48 <jugglinmike> subtopic: Checkbox Example (Mixed-State): Toggle on keyup to prevent continuous toggling by sivakusayan · Pull Request #2722 · w3c/aria-practices
18:17:55 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2722
18:18:18 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It seems like someone should have been assigned to review the code
18:18:49 <jugglinmike> andrea_cardona: I can review it
18:18:55 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Awesome; I'll assign you right now
18:21:38 <jugglinmike> subtopic: PR 2723: Select-only Combobox Example: Fix scroll event listener bug by ariellalgilmore
18:21:42 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2723
18:21:54 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: This is ready for review; did we assign a reviewer last week?
18:22:26 <jugglinmike> andrea_cardona: We asked Valerie to review, and she said that she could
18:23:30 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It's awesome to see spectranaut back in APG stuff
18:26:17 <jugglinmike> subtopic: Feed Display Example Broken Star Images
18:26:21 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2628
18:27:05 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Paul Brown (GitHub handle "frozenzia") has volunteered to take this up, but they're having trouble running the tests on their Mac
18:27:38 <jugglinmike> andrea_cardona: I develop on a Mac. I can try to run these tests and comment on this issue about my experience
18:45:08 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: It appears as though there might be some documentation missing for folks who want to run the tests on Mac. The "command" versus "control" thing may be a red herring
18:46:15 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: I can bring this to Carmen and see that someone from Bocoup takes a look at this alongside andrea_cardona
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18:46:49 <jugglinmike> Topic: New Issue Action Planning
18:47:03 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: ARIA & Progressive Enhancement
18:47:10 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2727
18:48:34 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Most of the ARIA we add in APG is added dynamically
18:48:47 <siri> Can you add grid for layout issue for our next APG discussion. I need to dropout now
18:59:25 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: I'm thinking about the Treeview pattern. Right now, if the user views the example with JavaScript disabled, it appears as a broken treeview. Wouldn't it be better to render that content as a list in that case?
19:01:51 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: It might be better to describe this topic with the term "graceful degradation" rather than "progressive enhancement" because we don't necessarily believe the patterns in APG are "enhancements"
19:02:53 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I agree that the "graceful degradation" is preferable, but I have more fundamental questions about this. I don't know how realistic it is for screen reader users to browse the web with JavaScript disabled
19:04:40 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I don't personally browse with JavaScript disabled, so I may be biased, but we haven't typically considered it as a use case
19:07:34 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: It sounds like what we're saying is: graceful degradation generally takes additional effort, so we would want evidence that the practice would benefit real end-users before making a recommendation in APG...
19:08:09 <jugglinmike> jugglinmike: ...and that we currently don't have evidence that screen reader users browse the web with JavaScript disabled.
19:09:11 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: That sounds right to me. However, this person is asking whether it is okay to make their implementations of the patterns degrade gracefully
19:09:57 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: And to that specific question, I think that yes, it is certainly okay (because that practice does not interfere with the behavior as outlined in APG)
19:10:30 <jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting
19:10:30 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, jugglinmike, CurtBellew, Daniel
19:10:33 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
19:10:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/20-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim
19:10:40 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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