13:55:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
13:55:37 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/06/14-apa-irc
13:55:37 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:55:38 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), matatk
13:55:49 <matatk> meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
13:56:18 <matatk> regrets+ Niklas
13:56:23 <matatk> regrets+ Gottfried
13:56:31 <matatk> regrets+ Mike
13:56:42 <matatk> Chair:  Matthew
13:56:42 <matatk> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:56:42 <matatk> agenda+ TPAC 2023 planning - https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2023
13:56:42 <matatk> agenda+ New Charters Review - https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
13:56:45 <matatk> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests - https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
13:56:48 <matatk> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker - https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
13:56:51 <matatk> agenda+ New on TR - http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
13:56:53 <matatk> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) - https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
13:56:56 <matatk> agenda+ Getting a Grip on the A11y Review Comment Tracker https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues
13:56:59 <matatk> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) - https://github.com/w3c/apa/labels/action et al
13:57:01 <matatk> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
13:57:04 <matatk> agenda+ Other Business
13:57:06 <matatk> agenda+ Be done
13:57:10 <matatk> zakim, who's here?
13:57:10 <Zakim> Present: (no one)
13:57:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, matatk, PaulG, tzviya, jamesn, janina, jcraig, M2cshkpcgrp, archive, Mike5Matrix, ZoeBijl, Rachael, tink, slightlyoff, cwilso, ada, gonzu_15,
13:57:12 <Zakim> ... imlostlmao, Github, agendabot, ghurlbot
13:57:14 <matatk> present+
13:57:16 <matatk> zakim, who's here?
13:57:16 <Zakim> Present: matatk
13:57:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, matatk, PaulG, tzviya, jamesn, janina, jcraig, M2cshkpcgrp, archive, Mike5Matrix, ZoeBijl, Rachael, tink, slightlyoff, cwilso, ada, gonzu_15,
13:57:17 <Zakim> ... imlostlmao, Github, agendabot, ghurlbot
13:57:20 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
13:57:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/14-apa-minutes.html matatk
14:01:02 <PaulG> present+
14:01:13 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
14:02:15 <janina> present+
14:02:51 <Fredrik> present+
14:03:32 <janina> scribe+
14:03:51 <janina> zakim, next item
14:03:51 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from matatk]
14:04:15 <janina> Nothing new from Matthew this week
14:04:20 <janina> zakim, close this item
14:04:20 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
14:04:21 <Zakim> I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:04:21 <Zakim> 2. TPAC 2023 planning - https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2023 [from matatk]
14:04:23 <janina> zakim, next item
14:04:23 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- TPAC 2023 planning - https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC/2023 -- taken up [from matatk]
14:05:06 <janina> matatk: W3C timetable covers only room; we're set for Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday
14:05:18 <janina> matatk: We have to arrange cross-group meetings ourselves
14:05:33 <janina> matatk: Friday meetings, esp. cross-group are still a possibility
14:05:55 <janina> matatk: Wiki will be updated as we go through
14:05:57 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2023
14:07:28 <janina> matatk: No news yet on when to propose breakouts, but have two to propose
14:07:46 <janina> matatk: One re Adapt; one re gh tool
14:08:00 <janina> matatk: will monitor
14:08:17 <janina> matatk: Will announce here for anyone thinking of it
14:08:20 <janina> zakim, next item
14:08:20 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- New Charters Review - https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from matatk]
14:08:49 <matatk> subtopic: Pointer Events Working Group 2023
14:08:49 <matatk> - charter: https://w3c.github.io/charter-drafts/2023/pointer-events.html
14:08:50 <matatk> - issue: https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/416
14:09:53 <janina> matatk: Looking to enhance pointer events ...
14:10:09 <janina> matatk: Notes a11y
14:10:31 <janina> matatk: Don't see issue beyond that, ... no A11y Considerations
14:10:48 <janina> matatk: suggest we push for AC section
14:10:57 <janina> matatk: thoughts?
14:11:13 <janina> PaulG: Agree; and work sounds needed
14:12:11 <janina> matatk: Will note our approval on github thread
14:12:11 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:12:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/14-apa-minutes.html matatk
14:12:49 <janina> zakim, next item
14:12:49 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Explicit Review Requests - https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from matatk]
14:13:25 <janina> matatk: Checking ... Look like issue reqs
14:13:42 <janina> . no spec reviews
14:13:54 <janina> zakim, next item
14:13:54 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker - https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from matatk]
14:14:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #APA
14:14:03 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:14:08 <Alisa_Smith> Alisa_Smith has joined #apa
14:14:12 <Alisa_Smith> present+
14:14:15 <matatk> subtopic: Disallow interactive content in <summary>
14:14:15 <matatk> -   issue: https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/2272
14:14:16 <matatk> -   ping: https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/2272#issuecomment-1574726034
14:15:17 <janina> . the one that 3 of us volunteered for last week .... #164 in our APA repo
14:15:17 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/164 -> Issue 164 §5.3 Bandwidth for video   - confusing title [RAUR] (gunnarhm) RAUR
14:17:00 <janina> matatk: notes thread is quite long; wonders whether others have looked?
14:18:20 <janina> PaulG: started, finding places where problems could occur, but may still be OK to allow the feature
14:18:51 <janina> PaulG: e.g. accelerators
14:19:48 <janina> . having secondary actions -- need to check a bit more
14:21:22 <janina> matatk: Wonders whether What wants to disallow because not used much
14:21:33 <janina> . Also, we have other ways to get same functionality
14:21:43 <janina> . will return to this next week
14:22:08 <matatk> subtopic: Should <dir> behave like a list element?
14:22:09 <matatk> -   issue: https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/9296
14:22:50 <janina> matatk: Recalls Paul suggest element may be deprecated?
14:22:58 <janina> matatk: got a thumbs-up
14:22:59 <janina> 
14:23:23 <janina> PaulG: Scott O mentioned
14:24:52 <janina> paul html-aam #486 has the list
14:24:52 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/486 -> Issue 486 [not found]
14:25:40 <janina> matatk: seems 486 is what we should be tracking; i'll add label for our dashboard
14:26:50 <janina> matatk: we'll look again
14:27:06 <matatk> q?
14:27:14 <janina> zakim, next item
14:27:14 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- New on TR - http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from matatk]
14:27:25 <janina> No news
14:27:29 <janina> zakim, close this item
14:27:29 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
14:27:30 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:27:30 <Zakim> 7. CSS Update (Paul) - https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues [from matatk]
14:27:32 <janina> zakim, next item
14:27:32 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- CSS Update (Paul) - https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from matatk]
14:28:20 <janina> paul: mostly api; but one a11y re font super/subscript
14:28:36 <janina> PaulG: so constructing a variant gliph
14:28:45 <matatk> s/gliph/glyph/
14:28:58 <janina> PaulG: most AT doesn't recognize super/subscript
14:29:11 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/7441
14:29:52 <PaulG> https://adrianroselli.com/2022/09/brief-note-on-super-and-subscript-text.html
14:29:59 <janina> matatk: nothing in axtree?
14:30:29 <janina> PaulG: nvda will read when enabled; but lots of ignoring it
14:31:32 <janina> janina: suggests spoken presentation to consider
14:32:20 <janina> matatk: concern that css will keep out of axtree
14:33:01 <janina> PaulG: easy to position visually
14:33:41 <janina> PaulG: this is fallback where gliph not available
14:34:06 <matatk> s//concern that css will keep out of axtree/concern that this may incentivise devs to use non-semantic techniques (though other similar situations exist; assume there's a general warning against using non-semantic techniques in CSS)/
14:34:12 <janina> PaulG: could add rules to ensure proper visual representation
14:34:42 <matatk> s/concern that css will keep out of axtree/concern that this may incentivise devs to use non-semantic techniques (though other similar situations exist; assume there's a general warning against using non-semantic techniques in CSS)/
14:36:28 <Fredrik> q+
14:36:41 <matatk> ack Fredrik
14:36:53 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:36:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/14-apa-minutes.html matatk
14:37:01 <Fredrik> q-
14:37:02 <matatk> scribe+
14:37:16 <matatk> Fredrik: Could you define smart clients more?
14:37:59 <matatk> janina: There was some work done a while back that took the view that for some content on the page, a specialsed/"smart" client would be needed to process and present that content, rather than just the browser. E.g. math, science, formulae.
14:38:15 <matatk> ... A corpus of rich domain-specific content would grow over time.
14:38:34 <matatk> ... E.g. Should be able to tag musical notes as they are performed.
14:39:01 <matatk> ... The idea is the general browser isn't going to build in that level of sophistication. We need a handoff mechanism from the browser to the specialised UA.
14:39:34 <matatk> ... Had a converssation about this in a breakout in Lyon, 2018. Well-attended and thought that someone should build it, but it's not yet come about.
14:39:48 <matatk> ... Good time to raise this with EPub, now in a transition phase, folloiwng the recent spec release.
14:39:56 <matatk> ... Time to bring it up at TPAC etc.
14:40:17 <matatk> ... We asked for a meeting with the TAG, and this is on the agenda.
14:41:19 <matatk> s/work done a while back/work done a while back in the Linux Foundation/
14:41:54 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
14:41:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/14-apa-minutes.html matatk
14:43:03 <janina> janina will send pointers to list
14:44:05 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: what was described very much like what happens on mobile today
14:44:30 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: what was meant by plugin?
14:44:54 <janina> matatk: we have concepts where another component can present some embedded content in a smarter way
14:45:35 <janina> matatk: notes that html5 trying to move away from plugins
14:45:52 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: appreciate the redux!
14:46:18 <matatk> q+
14:46:21 <janina> Fredrik: do you see environment on mobile where a browser can open embedded content in an app context?
14:46:36 <janina> Fredrik: but you don't get back to the browser when finished
14:46:46 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: route back is an issue
14:46:54 <matatk> ack me
14:46:54 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: w3c interoperability
14:47:56 <janina> matatk: not quite the same as the app taking over; idea is a specific bit of content; more fine grained
14:48:20 <janina> zakim, next item
14:48:20 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Getting a Grip on the A11y Review Comment Tracker https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues -- taken up [from matatk]
14:48:34 <janina> matatk: already done some today!
14:49:15 <janina> Alisa_Smith: began, but not finished ...
14:49:33 <janina> matatk: feel free to comment on issue or email list
14:49:45 <janina> matatk: looking for Niklaus' issue ...
14:50:40 <matatk> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2023Jun/0007.html
14:50:48 <janina> matatk: niklaus looked at
14:51:10 <janina> matatk: don't recall we reached a conclusion on previous consideration of this
14:51:32 <janina> matatk: concern of not getting focus trap
14:51:47 <janina> matatk: so we'll come back to this
14:52:35 <janina> matatk: Notes studying up on available labels; how best to use for managing these
14:53:13 <janina> matatk: pending label and the closed label are the ones we should focus on first
14:53:31 <janina> matatk: We'll get more adept as we do this
14:55:10 <janina> zakim, take up item 12
14:55:10 <Zakim> agendum 12 -- Be done -- taken up [from matatk]
14:55:37 <janina> zakim, end meeting
14:55:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been matatk, PaulG, janina, Fredrik, Lionel_Wolberger, Alisa_Smith
14:55:40 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:55:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/14-apa-minutes.html Zakim
14:55:48 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, janina; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
14:55:48 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
15:03:18 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #APA
15:04:38 <janina> rrsagent, bye
15:04:38 <RRSAgent> I see no action items