17:48:45 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 17:48:49 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-aria-apg-irc 17:48:49 RRSAgent, make logs Public 17:49:20 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King 17:49:20 MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 17:49:20 present+ 17:49:29 CHAIR: Matt King 17:49:39 rrsagent, make minutes 17:49:40 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 17:50:58 TOPIC: Review agenda and next meeting date 17:51:16 View the agenda at https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/June-6%2C-2023-Agenda 17:51:29 Next meeting date is June 13. 17:51:40 rrsagent, make minutes 17:51:41 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 17:52:43 regrets+ Jemma 17:59:27 jugglinmike has joined #aria-apg 18:01:09 present+ jongund 18:03:13 CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg 18:04:02 present+ jugglinmike 18:04:08 present+ 18:04:17 scribe+ jugglinmike 18:04:48 Andrea has joined #aria-apg 18:05:47 howard-e has joined #aria-apg 18:06:01 present+ 18:06:08 present+ 18:07:16 Topic: Status of Coming Site Updates 18:07:29 Matt_King: I have three things ready to go right now 18:07:37 Matt_King: A typo in "grid pattern" 18:07:52 Matt_King: jugglinmike's removal of the reference to Internet Explorer 18:08:16 Matt_King: And most significantly, a fix to the Date Picker Modal Dialog 18:08:32 Matt_King: For efficiency's sake, I'd like to get a few more ready 18:09:08 Matt_King: I have three in mind; they're listed in the agenda 18:09:30 Matt_King: Among those, the one I would really like to land is the new Landmark pattern page 18:10:14 Matt_King: Mark and Kurt are currently assigned as reviewers; I'd like to get at least one of those two to take a look. That would bring the total number of people who have reviewed to three 18:11:07 Matt_King: If we can get at least two of these three, then that would be enough to put something together for Shawn to publish 18:11:37 Matt_King: I believe she publishes on Tuesdays, so we would have to give it to her on Monday 18:12:57 jugglinmike: I will work with Carmen at Bocoup to identify someone to create a new publication branch 18:13:33 Matt_King: Okay, but if we don't get at least two more pull requests merged, then publication can wait another week 18:13:42 Topic: Pull request reviews 18:14:00 Subtopic: Remove duplicate SkipTo library 18:14:04 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2682 18:15:19 Matt_King: We have at least three other scripts in "content/shared/js". They all have script tags in the head of each HTML file. I'm not clear on why we would treat skipTo.js differently than the other shared JS files 18:16:09 Alex_Flenniken: I was operating under the assumption that we were going to remove it from Practices. That was wrong, and so I'm wondering if this PR is even needed anymore 18:16:51 Matt_King: There's something downstream that was causing two skipTo links to appear on the production site 18:17:11 Alex_Flenniken: Why don't we close this PR, and then I'll submit a fix for that problem, separately 18:18:21 Matt_King: It seems that it is only duplicated on some pages 18:18:36 present+ jongund 18:18:59 jongund: I noticed that, too, and I added some information about that to the issue 18:19:42 Subtopic: updated skipto.js script to 5.1.6 18:19:48 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2680 18:20:37 Matt_King: I know there's a version 5.2, so I'm wondering if we should merge this as-is. Maybe at a later time, we could upgrade again 18:21:02 jongund: This pull request should work according to the needs of the WAI site 18:21:21 Matt_King: Okay, I'm going to go forward with that, and we can add this to the list of changes for publication 18:21:58 Matt_King: When you're ready jongund, we can upgrade to the parameterized version of skipTo.js. That will simplify maintenance going forward 18:23:34 Subtopic: Listbox Examples: Update scrolling of listbox item with focus into view when page is magnified 18:23:50 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2622 18:24:04 Matt_King: jugglinmike is now assigned for reviewing code and tests 18:24:26 Matt_King: can you do that review in time for the publication next week? 18:24:30 jugglinmike: Yes 18:24:47 Topic: New Issue Action Planning 18:26:07 Subtopic: Select-Only Combobox Example - listbox closes when clicking on scrollbar 18:26:14 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2719 18:27:01 Matt_King: Can anyone reproduce the reported behavior? And do they agree that it's a bug? 18:27:48 Andrea: I'm happy to look into this one 18:31:27 Andrea: I can confirm the reported behavior, and I agree that it's a bug. I'll be taking a closer look at the proposed fix 18:33:17 subtopic: Select-Only Combobox Example Tabbing as selection 18:33:27 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2703 18:33:52 Matt_King: The feedback that we got is that tabbing doesn't provide any information about new selections 18:34:49 Matt_King: This has always been the behavior I expect from selects. When you hear "selected" on the one you want, and you tab out of it. 18:34:58 Matt_King: It seems equivalent to the native behavior to me 18:35:08 jongund: Do we need to document that, then? 18:36:08 Matt_King: The reporter says that tabbing to select is not native behavior. That's right; selection follows focus, so you've already done the selection just by pressing the arrow key 18:37:50 Matt_King: I don't quite understand what JAWS-test is saying. Tab moves focus out; that's always an expected behavior. I wouldn't ever expect that tab would not move focus 18:38:04 Matt_King: The input itself is not a separately focusable element 18:39:32 jongund: On my system, you have to press Enter and then Tab to exit a select drop-down. Kind of like a dialog 18:39:54 Matt_King: I don't know if I've encountered that behavior before. I wonder if that's recent 18:40:51 jongund: Then again, in Firefox, when you hit tab, it moves focus and changes selection 18:42:08 jongund: It looks like Safari models what Chrome does, at least in the latest version of macOS 18:46:44 Matt_King: I'll be honest; I prefer what the APG does 18:47:02 CurtBellew: Same here. It's also what we do at Oracle 18:47:48 Matt_King: I'm trying to think of any other time where tabbing doesn't move you to the next thing. Nothing comes to mind... 18:48:00 CurtBellew: I can't think of anything, either 18:48:11 jongund: How about a dialog box with only one element inside? 18:48:42 Matt_King: Yeah, I suppose so. That feels like an abberation, though; I don't know if it's necessarily a good behavior to model elsewhere 18:50:14 Matt_King: The bottom line here is: should we make any change to what we're doing? 18:50:45 Matt_King: One suggested change is to issue some kind of notification. The other suggestion is to change the tab behavior. 18:51:31 Matt_King: I think we agree that we want to leave the tab behavior the way it is 18:52:24 CurtBellew: Yup 18:52:30 jongund: Yup 18:52:47 Matt_King: Okay. What about adding a notification that would occur when tab is pressed? 18:52:57 Matt_King: Is there anyone who would argue in favor of that? 18:53:05 [silence] 18:53:55 Matt_King: To me, it feels like a little bit of an anti-pattern for screen readers to, upon receiving a tab key press, tell users about the thing they just left 18:54:10 Matt_King: Is that something anyone here has experienced elsewhere? 18:54:26 Matt_King: You folks who implement design systems: is that something you've built before? 18:55:13 [no participants voiced experience] 18:56:08 subtopic: Scope of carousel example 18:56:15 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2700 18:56:46 jongund: I think we had another discussion about this. The slider seems to be more like a scroll feature. On the WebAIM discussion list, they were talking about course selection 18:56:58 jongund: They were calling that a slider and wondering where the focus should go 18:57:17 jongund: It seems like this is similar; when you have more than one thing showing at a time 18:57:55 Matt_King: We call those "h-scrolls" as short for "horizontal scrolls", and they are a lot like a carousel, except that they don't automatically rotate 18:58:04 jongund: Maybe we need a horizontal scroll example 19:00:48 Matt_King: When they say the entire container, maybe they mean the visible set 19:05:52 Matt_King: It doesn't seem like this specific example fits our carousel pattern very well 19:06:51 Matt_King: I don't know how common this pattern is and if it's something that we should be focusing on, but if someone wants to take it on... 19:07:11 jongund: I think it's pretty common. It also came up on the webaim list 19:08:32 Matt_King: I would love to have a soft of incubator practice for new things like this. Something to promote a wider variety of input 19:09:35 Matt_King: I think it's pretty clear, though, that the carousel pattern isn't going to solve this problem as it is 19:09:53 Zakim, end the meeting 19:09:53 As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, jongund, jugglinmike, CurtBellew, howard-e, Andrea 19:09:56 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 19:09:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim 19:10:03 I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 19:10:04 Zakim has left #aria-apg