IRC log of aria-apg on 2023-06-06
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:48:45 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
- 17:48:49 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-aria-apg-irc
- 17:48:49 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 17:49:20 [Zakim]
- please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King
- 17:49:20 [Matt_King]
- MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
- 17:49:20 [Matt_King]
- present+
- 17:49:29 [Matt_King]
- CHAIR: Matt King
- 17:49:39 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:49:40 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
- 17:50:58 [Matt_King]
- TOPIC: Review agenda and next meeting date
- 17:51:16 [Matt_King]
- View the agenda at https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/June-6%2C-2023-Agenda
- 17:51:29 [Matt_King]
- Next meeting date is June 13.
- 17:51:40 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:51:41 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
- 17:52:43 [Matt_King]
- regrets+ Jemma
- 17:59:27 [jugglinmike]
- jugglinmike has joined #aria-apg
- 18:01:09 [jongund]
- present+ jongund
- 18:03:13 [CurtBellew]
- CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg
- 18:04:02 [jugglinmike]
- present+ jugglinmike
- 18:04:08 [CurtBellew]
- present+
- 18:04:17 [jugglinmike]
- scribe+ jugglinmike
- 18:04:48 [Andrea]
- Andrea has joined #aria-apg
- 18:05:47 [howard-e]
- howard-e has joined #aria-apg
- 18:06:01 [howard-e]
- present+
- 18:06:08 [Andrea]
- present+
- 18:07:16 [jugglinmike]
- Topic: Status of Coming Site Updates
- 18:07:29 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I have three things ready to go right now
- 18:07:37 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: A typo in "grid pattern"
- 18:07:52 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: jugglinmike's removal of the reference to Internet Explorer
- 18:08:16 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: And most significantly, a fix to the Date Picker Modal Dialog
- 18:08:32 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: For efficiency's sake, I'd like to get a few more ready
- 18:09:08 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I have three in mind; they're listed in the agenda
- 18:09:30 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Among those, the one I would really like to land is the new Landmark pattern page
- 18:10:14 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Mark and Kurt are currently assigned as reviewers; I'd like to get at least one of those two to take a look. That would bring the total number of people who have reviewed to three
- 18:11:07 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: If we can get at least two of these three, then that would be enough to put something together for Shawn to publish
- 18:11:37 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I believe she publishes on Tuesdays, so we would have to give it to her on Monday
- 18:12:57 [jugglinmike]
- jugglinmike: I will work with Carmen at Bocoup to identify someone to create a new publication branch
- 18:13:33 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Okay, but if we don't get at least two more pull requests merged, then publication can wait another week
- 18:13:42 [jugglinmike]
- Topic: Pull request reviews
- 18:14:00 [jugglinmike]
- Subtopic: Remove duplicate SkipTo library
- 18:14:04 [jugglinmike]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2682
- 18:15:19 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: We have at least three other scripts in "content/shared/js". They all have script tags in the head of each HTML file. I'm not clear on why we would treat skipTo.js differently than the other shared JS files
- 18:16:09 [jugglinmike]
- Alex_Flenniken: I was operating under the assumption that we were going to remove it from Practices. That was wrong, and so I'm wondering if this PR is even needed anymore
- 18:16:51 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: There's something downstream that was causing two skipTo links to appear on the production site
- 18:17:11 [jugglinmike]
- Alex_Flenniken: Why don't we close this PR, and then I'll submit a fix for that problem, separately
- 18:18:21 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: It seems that it is only duplicated on some pages
- 18:18:36 [jugglinmike]
- present+ jongund
- 18:18:59 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: I noticed that, too, and I added some information about that to the issue
- 18:19:42 [jugglinmike]
- Subtopic: updated skipto.js script to 5.1.6
- 18:19:48 [jugglinmike]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2680
- 18:20:37 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I know there's a version 5.2, so I'm wondering if we should merge this as-is. Maybe at a later time, we could upgrade again
- 18:21:02 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: This pull request should work according to the needs of the WAI site
- 18:21:21 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Okay, I'm going to go forward with that, and we can add this to the list of changes for publication
- 18:21:58 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: When you're ready jongund, we can upgrade to the parameterized version of skipTo.js. That will simplify maintenance going forward
- 18:23:34 [jugglinmike]
- Subtopic: Listbox Examples: Update scrolling of listbox item with focus into view when page is magnified
- 18:23:50 [jugglinmike]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2622
- 18:24:04 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: jugglinmike is now assigned for reviewing code and tests
- 18:24:26 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: can you do that review in time for the publication next week?
- 18:24:30 [jugglinmike]
- jugglinmike: Yes
- 18:24:47 [jugglinmike]
- Topic: New Issue Action Planning
- 18:26:07 [jugglinmike]
- Subtopic: Select-Only Combobox Example - listbox closes when clicking on scrollbar
- 18:26:14 [jugglinmike]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2719
- 18:27:01 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Can anyone reproduce the reported behavior? And do they agree that it's a bug?
- 18:27:48 [jugglinmike]
- Andrea: I'm happy to look into this one
- 18:31:27 [jugglinmike]
- Andrea: I can confirm the reported behavior, and I agree that it's a bug. I'll be taking a closer look at the proposed fix
- 18:33:17 [jugglinmike]
- subtopic: Select-Only Combobox Example Tabbing as selection
- 18:33:27 [jugglinmike]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2703
- 18:33:52 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: The feedback that we got is that tabbing doesn't provide any information about new selections
- 18:34:49 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: This has always been the behavior I expect from selects. When you hear "selected" on the one you want, and you tab out of it.
- 18:34:58 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: It seems equivalent to the native behavior to me
- 18:35:08 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: Do we need to document that, then?
- 18:36:08 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: The reporter says that tabbing to select is not native behavior. That's right; selection follows focus, so you've already done the selection just by pressing the arrow key
- 18:37:50 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I don't quite understand what JAWS-test is saying. Tab moves focus out; that's always an expected behavior. I wouldn't ever expect that tab would not move focus
- 18:38:04 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: The input itself is not a separately focusable element
- 18:39:32 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: On my system, you have to press Enter and then Tab to exit a select drop-down. Kind of like a dialog
- 18:39:54 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I don't know if I've encountered that behavior before. I wonder if that's recent
- 18:40:51 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: Then again, in Firefox, when you hit tab, it moves focus and changes selection
- 18:42:08 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: It looks like Safari models what Chrome does, at least in the latest version of macOS
- 18:46:44 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I'll be honest; I prefer what the APG does
- 18:47:02 [jugglinmike]
- CurtBellew: Same here. It's also what we do at Oracle
- 18:47:48 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I'm trying to think of any other time where tabbing doesn't move you to the next thing. Nothing comes to mind...
- 18:48:00 [jugglinmike]
- CurtBellew: I can't think of anything, either
- 18:48:11 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: How about a dialog box with only one element inside?
- 18:48:42 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Yeah, I suppose so. That feels like an abberation, though; I don't know if it's necessarily a good behavior to model elsewhere
- 18:50:14 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: The bottom line here is: should we make any change to what we're doing?
- 18:50:45 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: One suggested change is to issue some kind of notification. The other suggestion is to change the tab behavior.
- 18:51:31 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I think we agree that we want to leave the tab behavior the way it is
- 18:52:24 [jugglinmike]
- CurtBellew: Yup
- 18:52:30 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: Yup
- 18:52:47 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Okay. What about adding a notification that would occur when tab is pressed?
- 18:52:57 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Is there anyone who would argue in favor of that?
- 18:53:05 [jugglinmike]
- [silence]
- 18:53:55 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: To me, it feels like a little bit of an anti-pattern for screen readers to, upon receiving a tab key press, tell users about the thing they just left
- 18:54:10 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: Is that something anyone here has experienced elsewhere?
- 18:54:26 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: You folks who implement design systems: is that something you've built before?
- 18:55:13 [jugglinmike]
- [no participants voiced experience]
- 18:56:08 [jugglinmike]
- subtopic: Scope of carousel example
- 18:56:15 [jugglinmike]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2700
- 18:56:46 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: I think we had another discussion about this. The slider seems to be more like a scroll feature. On the WebAIM discussion list, they were talking about course selection
- 18:56:58 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: They were calling that a slider and wondering where the focus should go
- 18:57:17 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: It seems like this is similar; when you have more than one thing showing at a time
- 18:57:55 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: We call those "h-scrolls" as short for "horizontal scrolls", and they are a lot like a carousel, except that they don't automatically rotate
- 18:58:04 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: Maybe we need a horizontal scroll example
- 19:00:48 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: When they say the entire container, maybe they mean the visible set
- 19:05:52 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: It doesn't seem like this specific example fits our carousel pattern very well
- 19:06:51 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I don't know how common this pattern is and if it's something that we should be focusing on, but if someone wants to take it on...
- 19:07:11 [jugglinmike]
- jongund: I think it's pretty common. It also came up on the webaim list
- 19:08:32 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I would love to have a soft of incubator practice for new things like this. Something to promote a wider variety of input
- 19:09:35 [jugglinmike]
- Matt_King: I think it's pretty clear, though, that the carousel pattern isn't going to solve this problem as it is
- 19:09:53 [jugglinmike]
- Zakim, end the meeting
- 19:09:53 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, jongund, jugglinmike, CurtBellew, howard-e, Andrea
- 19:09:56 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 19:09:57 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/06/06-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim
- 19:10:03 [Zakim]
- I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
- 19:10:04 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aria-apg