13:53:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
13:53:34 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-irc
14:04:13 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-td
14:06:40 <kaz-brb>  meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
14:07:02 <cris__> cris__ has joined #wot-td
14:07:15 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Crisitno_Aguzzi, Michael_Koster
14:07:40 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
14:07:53 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#May_31.2C_2023
14:09:28 <cris__> q+
14:09:33 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
14:11:36 <kaz> q+
14:11:43 <cris__> ack c
14:12:13 <kaz> ack c
14:12:15 <kaz> ack k
14:12:22 <kaz> scribenick: dape
14:12:27 <dape> scribe: dape
14:13:53 <kaz> q+
14:13:58 <dape> TOPIC: Review draft minutes
14:14:14 <dape> -> 24 May 2023 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/05/24-wot-td-minutes.html
14:15:47 <dape> <Ege walks through minutes>
14:16:02 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:17:41 <Ege> subtopic "PR #1807 TM namespace not active yet" should be changed to "Issue #1807 TM namespace not active yet"
14:18:13 <dape> EK: Any further change requests?
14:18:23 <dape> -> none -> minutes approved
14:18:48 <dape> TOPIC: Timeslot and length preference
14:19:02 <dape> EK: We would like to ask people about time and length
14:19:14 <kaz> q?
14:19:17 <kaz> ack k
14:19:36 <dape> ... we should prioritize people that are joining
14:19:38 <cris__> q+
14:19:48 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
14:20:00 <dape> CA: about the length... we could try to stay in 1 hour
14:20:04 <dape> ... depends on topic
14:20:24 <dape> ... I am also ok with moving the slot to a different time
14:20:33 <kaz> q+
14:20:38 <dape> ack cris__
14:20:38 <kaz> ack c
14:21:02 <dape> Kaz: Agree with Cristiano
14:21:03 <kaz> ack k
14:21:27 <dape> EK: with big design topics we need to focus on some topics
14:21:32 <dape> q+
14:22:04 <kaz> ack d
14:22:04 <dape> DP: Do we plan to start Doodle call for others?
14:22:06 <dape> EK: Yes
14:22:18 <dape> TOPIC: Explaining the share of moderation between Ege Korkan and Michael Koster
14:22:33 <dape> EK: share of moderation was discussed last week
14:22:45 <kaz> s/others/all the WG participants including those who are not here/
14:22:55 <dape> ... MK and myself were discussing this further
14:23:13 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
14:23:16 <dape> ... Koster: Basic architectural design, doc structure etc
14:23:18 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
14:23:18 <Zakim> Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Crisitno_Aguzzi, Michael_Koster, Daniel_Peintner, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Jan_Romann
14:23:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see JKRhb, dape, cris__, McCool, RRSAgent, Zakim, Mizushima, Ege, kaz, benfrancis, cwilso, trackbot
14:23:25 <dape> ... Ege: concrete description based on the design
14:23:54 <dape> ... We are working together
14:24:01 <dape> ... and we talk to each other
14:24:20 <dape> ... both responsible
14:24:40 <dape> EK: If there is feedback please let us know
14:25:12 <dape> MK: from my point of view. Single point of contact for different functions
14:25:20 <dape> ... not exclusive
14:25:28 <dape> ... is starting place and we look for feedback
14:25:47 <dape> ... we were asked to categorize who is doing what
14:25:53 <cris__> q+
14:26:28 <dape> CA: Looks fine
14:27:09 <dape> ... w.r.t. stability. What does it mean when it comes to testing?
14:27:23 <dape> EK: Testing is in the hand of testing task-force
14:27:54 <dape> ... designing of *new* keyword is in my responsibility (at the moment)
14:28:12 <dape> CA: Keeping an eye whether something is implementable.. got it
14:28:51 <dape> s/stability/testability
14:29:12 <Ege> q?
14:29:15 <Ege> ack c
14:29:17 <dape> EK: Still a draft
14:29:23 <kaz> q+
14:29:47 <dape> MK: We are trying to make sure to split workload
14:30:18 <dape> Kaz: Testing is one procedure
14:30:39 <dape> ... task force and editors should be responsible for testing
14:31:12 <dape> ... testing mechanism and tools can help
14:31:29 <dape> ... testing data should be installed on TD repo
14:31:33 <Ege> ack k
14:31:42 <dape> ... tooling in testing repo
14:31:45 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
14:31:50 <mjk> q?
14:31:56 <kaz> s/one procedure/just one step from the spec generation procedure/
14:32:14 <kaz> s/task force and/each task force and/
14:32:35 <dape> MK: role of governance
14:33:05 <kaz> s/testing mechanism and tools can help/of course, the Testing TF can help with the testing mechanism and the tools./
14:33:24 <kaz> s/tooling in/while the tooling in/
14:34:13 <dape> TOPIC: Binding Templates
14:34:26 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR 290
14:34:33 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/290
14:34:45 <dape> EK: I have worked on publication preparation
14:34:55 <dape> ... looked at it last week
14:35:05 <dape> ... completed all tood
14:35:20 <dape> s/tood/todos and checkers
14:35:39 <dape> ... link checkers -> no erros
14:35:47 <dape> s/erros/errors
14:35:58 <dape> ... cc checkers -> no errors
14:36:12 <dape> s/cc/css
14:36:43 <Ege> https://deploy-preview-290--wot-binding-templates.netlify.app/publication/note3/overview
14:37:14 <Ege> q?
14:39:15 <cris__> q+
14:39:23 <JKRhb> q+
14:39:37 <JKRhb> q-
14:39:48 <dape> EK: CSS issue, not sure why it reports center array
14:40:02 <dape> CA: HTML should be static, right?
14:40:08 <dape> EK: Yes, after ReSpec
14:41:11 <dape> ... checking again.. <center> comes from Netlify
14:41:16 <dape> ... means we are fine
14:42:31 <kaz> q+
14:42:39 <kaz> ack c
14:42:40 <kaz> ack k
14:42:47 <dape> EK: Link checker reports 1 issue since the document itself is not published
14:43:16 <dape> EK: pub checker reports netlify issues
14:43:24 <kaz> q+
14:43:26 <JKRhb> q+
14:43:42 <dape> Kaz: Which filename are you using?
14:44:12 <dape> EK: it is Overview.html  ... but Netlify uses lowercase overview.html
14:44:34 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot-td
14:45:14 <dape> Kaz: I think you can merge everything and check static versions again .. without Netlify
14:45:37 <dape> EK: changes done are
14:45:45 <dape> .... Github vs GitHubAPI
14:45:54 <dape> ... local vs absolute urls
14:45:55 <kaz> ack k
14:45:57 <kaz> ack j
14:46:05 <dape> Jan: is the date correct ?
14:46:16 <dape> EK: During publication it will be changed
14:46:27 <dape> ... will merge PR and do final checks
14:47:09 <dape> ... I also documented the process in README.md
14:47:22 <dape> ... merging PR 290
14:47:30 <kaz> q+
14:47:44 <dape> EK: Next step? Re-check with deployed documents?
14:47:54 <dape> Kaz: I can double check document
14:48:08 <dape> ... and publish note with automatic publication tool
14:48:30 <dape> MK: Sounds good also from side
14:49:06 <kaz> ack k
14:50:37 <dape> EK: All checks seem to be fine on the following document
14:50:44 <Ege> https://w3c.github.io/wot-binding-templates/publication/note3/Overview.html
14:51:27 <dape> Kaz: I suggest we make quick resolution
14:52:05 <Ege> proposal: After doing the publication checks, the TD/Binding TF agrees to proceed with the publication of the https://w3c.github.io/wot-binding-templates/publication/note3/Overview.html as the next Working Group Note
14:52:41 <Ege> resolution: After doing the publication checks, the TD/Binding TF agrees to proceed with the publication of the https://w3c.github.io/wot-binding-templates/publication/note3/Overview.html as the next Working Group Note
14:53:09 <dape> EK: Thank you everyone!
14:53:17 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:53:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:53:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:53:38 <dape> TOPIC: Binding Templates
14:53:42 <kaz> chair: Ege/Koster
14:53:47 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Publication Preparation
14:53:59 <dape> EK: Implementation Report Update: https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1835
14:54:23 <dape> EK: McCool working on implementation report update
14:54:50 <dape> ... in testing call we had a look
14:55:13 <dape> ... editorial changes
14:55:15 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:55:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:55:39 <kaz> s/TOPIC: Binding Templates/topic: TD/
14:55:44 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1835/files#diff-a603dd3c66dc1c8dc4c625e88422942cc921057d58a9d4394c74595a5aedcbbcR7734
14:56:30 <dape> CA: I think I am missing on contribution list
14:56:41 <dape> EK: Correct
14:57:54 <dape> ... Mizushima-San seems to be missing also?
14:58:48 <Mizushima> q+
14:59:07 <dape> TM: Not sure I understand
14:59:31 <dape> ... I think I didn't submit implementation report
14:59:51 <dape> EK: McCool will have a final look and than we can merge
15:00:21 <dape> SUBTOPIC: At risk items section
15:00:30 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1783
15:00:50 <dape> EK: PR should resolve ReSpec warning
15:01:34 <dape> EK: Question to Kaz. Para after removed section.. should we keep that?
15:01:48 <dape> Kaz: Boiler template which should not be changed
15:02:13 <dape> EK: Any objection before merging PR 1783?
15:02:29 <dape> --> none -> merging
15:02:41 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Publication Prep
15:02:50 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1837
15:04:01 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Example Tabs
15:04:08 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1836
15:04:34 <dape> EK: PR fixes issue with examples
15:04:40 <kaz> q+
15:04:44 <kaz> ack mi
15:04:48 <dape> ack Mizushima
15:04:57 <Ege> ack k
15:06:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:06:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:07:42 <kaz> s/SUBTOPIC: Publication Prep/subtopic: PR 1837/
15:07:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:07:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:07:58 <kaz> present+ Michael_McCool
15:08:11 <dape> EK: default values check box
15:08:14 <dape> q+
15:09:21 <dape> ... should be able to close issue "by PR transition"
15:09:54 <dape> DP: issue we had in the past, https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/55f0a1fc26052928fff29da9f1d65ac247718da0/index.html#L288
15:10:23 <dape> ... no issue anymore
15:10:57 <dape> EK: Objections to megr Pr 183
15:11:10 <dape> s/megr Pr 183/merg PR 1836
15:11:22 <dape> -> none -> merging
15:12:10 <Ege> scribenick: Ege
15:12:26 <kaz> s/merg P/merge P/
15:12:30 <Ege> Topic: TD.next Discussion
15:12:45 <McCool> (Michael K you are breaking up a little)
15:14:32 <Ege> mk: we want to start with a revision, a big picture revision, not necessarily technical
15:15:30 <kaz> s/(Michael K you are breaking up a little)//
15:15:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:15:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:16:40 <Ege> mk: I see 3 big bits: general structure, integrating protocol binding and better integrating Thing Model
15:18:02 <cris__> q+
15:18:12 <dape> ack dape
15:18:27 <Ege> ... regarding tm optionality: TD is really towards hypermedia, it is concrete. TM is different
15:19:28 <Ege> ca: We have a nice information model but it is very tied to JSON LD (serialization). DID did it better.
15:19:47 <Ege> q+
15:19:49 <Ege> ack c
15:20:04 <Ege> mk: you have said it better. that is what I have in mind
15:20:32 <luca_barbato> q+
15:22:26 <kaz> ack e
15:23:01 <Ege> ek: we also put some important conceptual part in the serialization section, it is confusing
15:23:10 <Ege> ... and examples are only in the serialization section
15:23:57 <Ege> lb: I would like to make sure that if we are refer to another spec, we are clear about it
15:24:00 <Ege> q+
15:25:23 <Ege> lb: some terms we specify in data schema are slightly different than what is in JSON Schema
15:25:36 <kaz> q+
15:25:39 <kaz> ack l
15:25:40 <Ege> ack l
15:25:41 <Ege> ack e
15:26:19 <Ege> lb: we should be clear about this, I have opened an issue as well
15:27:03 <Ege> mk: it is an important point
15:27:08 <Ege> lb: we should not have redundancy
15:28:00 <Ege> lb: where do you need json-ld processor for example? json or jsonld processor need different requirements
15:29:28 <Ege> ... consuming a TD has no minimum requirements at the moment
15:30:04 <kaz> q?
15:30:45 <Ege> ... and reducing redundancy like not making sure that we do not need to parse a form twice to understand if you can use that form
15:34:29 <Ege> kaz: we need more input from developers. No need to go into detail today
15:34:30 <kaz> ack k
15:34:50 <Mizushima> +1 kaz
15:35:11 <Ege> q?
15:35:35 <kaz> q+
15:36:49 <kaz> ack k
15:38:17 <Ege> mk: WoT is not a protocol
15:40:37 <Ege> mk: We have the concepts of different types of bindings but we have design that a bit better
15:41:10 <Ege> ... we have the need for external work for the protocol bindings
15:42:13 <Ege> ... the registry option is definitely to be considered
15:42:35 <Ege> ... TMs are currently not consumed by the clients but by tools
15:42:47 <luca_barbato> q+
15:43:01 <Ege> ... we need to think more about the TD expectation from the TM
15:43:32 <kaz> q?
15:43:34 <kaz> ack l
15:45:03 <Ege> lb: tms are a templating system. Some use TMs to validate TDs is a bit weird but can be done. Some use it like a semantic annotation. it conflicts with jsonld mechanism
15:45:20 <kaz> s/tms/Thing Models/
15:46:00 <McCool> q+
15:46:44 <kaz> s/jsonld/JSON-LD/
15:46:57 <Ege> mm: we should wrap up and create agenda items for the planning meeting
15:47:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:47:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:47:35 <Ege> ack m
15:47:43 <Ege> topic: Implementation Report Update
15:47:54 <Ege> mm: it is PR 1835 in TD
15:48:39 <kaz> s/Topic: TD.next Discussion/subtopic: TD.next discussion/
15:48:48 <kaz> s/topic:/subtopic:/
15:48:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:48:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:49:38 <kaz> i|it is|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1835 wot-thing-description PR 1835 - Update Implementation Report|
15:49:38 <Ege> ek: we made a small comment regarding cristiano being missing
15:49:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:49:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:50:07 <kaz> q+
15:50:54 <kaz> ack k
15:51:11 <Ege> mm: I need to copy it to the template as well
15:51:16 <kaz> i|we want to start with|-> slides tbd@@@|
15:51:27 <kaz> q?
15:52:16 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato
15:52:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:52:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:52:45 <Ege> mm: I have done the changes
15:54:04 <cris__> q+
15:54:07 <Ege> mm: we also miss an implementation description for zion
15:56:28 <Ege> ca: i can submit it
15:56:43 <Ege> mm: good, can you do it by tomorrow
15:56:56 <kaz> q+
15:57:02 <cris__> ack c
15:57:03 <Ege> ack c
15:57:18 <Ege> mm: we can remove it from here and add a reference to architecture
15:58:41 <Ege> kaz: all the implementation reports will have the same list?
15:59:04 <Ege> mm: arch will have all, td almost all since not all discovery implementations expose TDs, some only read TDs (not consume)
16:00:45 <Ege> mm: (shows the changes)
16:01:52 <Ege> mm: I took out a section about explaining lacking feature implementation
16:03:56 <kaz> i/(shows/kaz: in that case, having all the descriptions of all the implementations in both the specs separately would make sense (than putting a link from the TD Implementation Report to the Architecture Implementation Report./
16:04:42 <kaz> i/(shows/mm: would confirm how to deal with that during the main call on June 7./
16:04:46 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:04:53 <Ege> mm: associated organization and then the old one
16:04:55 <Ege> ... any objections?
16:05:12 <kaz> i/in that case/scribenick: kaz/
16:05:29 <kaz> i/shows the changes/scribenick: Ege/
16:05:30 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:06:18 <McCool> proposal: Distribute the draft of the IR report for TD 1.1 for 1 week of review and include it (after incorporating any final changes brought up during review and finalizing the System descriptions) as part of the TD 1.1 PR transition request.
16:07:00 <McCool> proposal: Distribute the draft of the Implementation Report for TD 1.1 for 1 week of review and include it (after incorporating any final changes brought up during review and finalizing the System descriptions) as part of the TD 1.1 Proposed Recommendation transition request.
16:07:24 <McCool> resolution: Distribute the draft of the Implementation Report for TD 1.1 for 1 week of review and include it (after incorporating any final changes brought up during review and finalizing the System descriptions) as part of the TD 1.1 Proposed Recommendation transition request.
16:09:17 <kaz> [adjourned]
16:09:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:09:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/31-wot-td-minutes.html kaz