IRC log of wcag3-policy on 2023-05-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:54:19 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/05/29-wcag3-policy-irc
15:54:26 [Zakim]
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15:54:59 [shadi]
meeting: Guidance for Policy Makers Subgroup
15:55:04 [shadi]
chair: Shadi
15:55:24 [shadi]
regrets: Laura_Carlson
15:56:20 [shadi]
agenda+ Situation 2
15:56:24 [shadi]
agenda+ Situation 3
16:01:44 [wendyreid]
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16:04:31 [mgifford]
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16:07:10 [Azlan_]
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16:07:53 [wendyreid]
present+
16:08:09 [shadi]
present+
16:08:15 [garcialo]
present+
16:08:16 [mgifford]
present+
16:09:42 [shadi]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2023AprJun/0185.html
16:09:45 [Azlan_]
present+
16:10:00 [Azlan_]
scribe+ Azlan_
16:10:38 [shadi]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B-qfTrPxnhIa0AxhPEF6SIDTLAGnneoauBRHGzS5q7U/edit#heading=h.s0ukjtq0hqao
16:11:06 [shadi]
https://w3c.github.io/silver/use-cases/
16:12:59 [mgifford]
Practically, Sa11y is a nice way to provide this type of support to authors https://sa11y.netlify.app/
16:13:09 [Azlan_]
shadi: We worked on situation 1 and brainstormed what can be done in each situation. There could be a technical component. There could also be a policy component.
16:14:07 [wendyreid]
q+
16:16:02 [Azlan_]
shadi: I would like to go through as many of these situations as we can over the coming weeks. An interesting idea last time reminded the protocols discussion as a way to address certain requirements. An organisation can put in additional requirements
16:16:51 [Azlan_]
shadi: We are not seeking to find consensus but to come up with ideas.
16:17:00 [Azlan_]
ack wendyreid
16:18:38 [Azlan_]
Looking over the situations we are trying tackle I wonder if trying to define a framework of the parties and their responsibilities might give tools to solve the problems. If we can define the various parties e.g. the CMS provider and define responsibility and explain concepts from ATAG
16:19:09 [Azlan_]
wendyreid: Looking over the situations we are trying tackle I wonder if trying to define a framework of the parties and their responsibilities might give tools to solve the problems. If we can define the various parties e.g. the CMS provider and define responsibility and explain concepts from ATAG
16:20:20 [mgifford]
I had discussions about this with BigCommerce vs Shopify last year. Some vendors clearly have invested more in accessibility
16:22:16 [Azlan_]
shadi: There is a lot of roles defined but not for service provider. As you say the web today is very different and we have these chains with multiple roles. Do we need to discuss this now? I think we should go through by situation and we may identify things specific to each situation. I think we will find these patterns.
16:22:56 [Azlan_]
mgifford: I have started to go through the situations. I think having practical examples would be helpful.
16:23:03 [shadi]
https://w3c.github.io/silver/use-cases/
16:23:32 [Azlan_]
shadi: Each situation links to at least one example in the use cases.
16:24:16 [shadi]
ack wendy
16:24:25 [shadi]
zakim, take up next
16:24:25 [Zakim]
agendum 1 -- Situation 2 -- taken up [from shadi]
16:24:41 [shadi]
https://w3c.github.io/silver/use-cases/#situation-2
16:25:22 [mgifford]
Done
16:25:31 [wendyreid]
done]
16:25:44 [garcialo]
done
16:25:59 [Azlan]
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16:28:23 [Azlan_]
wendyreid: Both examples have ways to handle so may just need clarifying. Maybe add provision for the platform.
16:31:25 [Azlan_]
mgifford: We need to name who has responsibility. Some things could be done through AI or simple analytics.
16:32:26 [Azlan_]
shadi: There are some differences dependent upon the law but we aren't getting into writing policies.
16:32:45 [Azlan_]
garcialo: What tools do policy writers have?
16:33:49 [mgifford]
For user generated content, it is possible to restrict the functions that exist.
16:33:53 [Azlan_]
shadi: Responsibility doesn't end at defining tools. If there are repeating patterns you have an ongoing responsibility to to monitor these trends and continuously improve the tools you have.
16:34:38 [Cyborg]
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16:34:42 [Cyborg]
Present+
16:36:42 [Azlan_]
wendyreid: Who the policy maker is is a complex thing. Mechanisms such as levels of responsibility for size of company and regular review are useful.
16:37:30 [Cyborg]
q+
16:37:32 [Azlan_]
mgifford: We can provide suggestions for policy. The policy makers will make their own decisions but we can provide guidance
16:38:58 [Azlan_]
shadi: For now let's think about what we can do about each situation broadly.
16:39:19 [Azlan_]
ack Cyborg
16:39:44 [shadi]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Substantial_Conformance/Example_Scenarios#Situation_2:_When_large_volumes_of_content_are_accumulating_too_rapidly_to_make_fully_conforming
16:40:50 [mgifford]
For user generated content: 1) restrict what users can add (text is hard to screw up too badly). 2) ensure there is inline help text for whatever rich functionality is offered.
16:41:44 [Azlan_]
Cyborg: My concern about use case 2 is around the assumptions. The risks are large if suggesting the material accumulates too quickly. I don't think adding exemption is appropriate.
16:42:29 [mgifford]
3) provide users with feedback if accessibility best practices aren't being implemented. 4) aggregate information so that trends per user can be identified. 5) find ways to gamify results such that users interests align with larger goals of the site.
16:42:51 [Azlan_]
shadi: The idea is not blanket exemption. The risk analysis is important.
16:43:31 [Cyborg]
if content accumulating "too rapidly", then an org needs to hire enough people to keep up with the flow
16:44:03 [Azlan_]
shadi: Like the suggestion to include the risk factor
16:44:12 [Cyborg]
q+
16:45:07 [Azlan_]
Cyborg: Why should we care? If its accumulating to fast, it needs to be dealt with. It's not the responsibility to lower the standards
16:45:14 [shadi]
ack cyborg
16:45:31 [Azlan_]
mgifford: We have to give a direction of progress
16:46:39 [Azlan_]
garcialo: we are talking about what could be done rather than lower the standards
16:48:40 [Azlan_]
wendyreid: we have two examples of companies doing good things - both unusual for the market today. It may help to have a third use case where an app has gained traction in a very short period of time.
16:48:52 [Cyborg]
q+
16:49:33 [Azlan_]
shadi: Acquired content and a huge backlog is covered in situation 3
16:49:42 [Azlan_]
ack Cyborg
16:51:32 [Azlan_]
Cyborg: appreciate bringing in use cases and some will be covered in other use cases. We need to be mindful to not neglect the monopolies as we consider the start ups.
16:52:02 [Azlan_]
wendyreid: Responsibility should scale appropriately
16:53:08 [Cyborg]
+1 to considering higher traffic zones, responsibilities of larger orgs, and risks related to access to services
16:53:18 [Azlan_]
garcialo: Considering the scale, accessibility of content could be prioritised.
16:53:38 [mgifford]
6) include an accessibility statement to allow PwD to report and prioritize priority pages.
16:55:19 [Cyborg]
+1 to what Mike is sharing from Lucy Greco
16:55:21 [Azlan_]
mgifford: Example previously given of providing captioning for everything vs take everything down. The outcome was everything was taken down making the content inaccessible for everybody
16:55:28 [wendyreid]
scribe+
16:55:57 [wendyreid]
Azlan_: Similar situation, an archive of legal documents, the archive was huge, being able to make them accessible, some were hand written or photographed
16:56:13 [wendyreid]
... there was discussion about situations like this, something could happen on demand
16:56:22 [wendyreid]
... then you know how to prioritizes
16:56:29 [wendyreid]
... know the needs of the end users
16:57:32 [Azlan_]
garcialo: had this exact same situation
16:57:55 [Azlan_]
wendyreid: Similar in publishing
16:58:18 [Cyborg]
q+
16:58:42 [Azlan_]
garcialo: With this reactive to what is popular. You can monitor what influencers are recommending so can predict
16:59:35 [Azlan_]
shadi: The organisation could state how they will prioritise?
16:59:36 [shadi]
zakim, close queue
16:59:36 [Zakim]
ok, shadi, the speaker queue is closed
17:00:00 [mgifford]
That's a great idea Shadi! Declaring what process an organization has is important
17:00:04 [Azlan_]
Cyborg: We need to encourage anticipating and preventative strategy
17:00:22 [shadi]
Topic: Next Meeting
17:00:42 [Azlan_]
NO MEETING NEXT WEEK MONDAY 5TH
17:01:42 [mgifford]
Reduce, reuse, recycle. People forgot the 1st two & jumped to the last one. Similar issues apply to prioritization with WCAG. How do we emphasize the priority.
17:02:18 [Azlan_]
Homework to review the use cases and add thoughts and comments
17:04:42 [shadi]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B-qfTrPxnhIa0AxhPEF6SIDTLAGnneoauBRHGzS5q7U/edit#
17:05:35 [Azlan_]
zakim, bye
17:05:35 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been wendyreid, shadi, garcialo, mgifford, Azlan_, Cyborg
17:05:35 [Zakim]
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17:05:51 [Azlan_]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:05:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/29-wcag3-policy-minutes.html Azlan_
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17:34:37 [shadi]
rragent, make logs public
17:34:44 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:35:17 [shadi]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:35:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/29-wcag3-policy-minutes.html shadi