IRC log of wcag3-policy on 2023-05-29
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:54:19 [RRSAgent]
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- 15:54:23 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/05/29-wcag3-policy-irc
- 15:54:26 [Zakim]
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- 15:54:59 [shadi]
- meeting: Guidance for Policy Makers Subgroup
- 15:55:04 [shadi]
- chair: Shadi
- 15:55:24 [shadi]
- regrets: Laura_Carlson
- 15:56:20 [shadi]
- agenda+ Situation 2
- 15:56:24 [shadi]
- agenda+ Situation 3
- 16:01:44 [wendyreid]
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- 16:04:31 [mgifford]
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- 16:07:10 [Azlan_]
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- 16:07:53 [wendyreid]
- present+
- 16:08:09 [shadi]
- present+
- 16:08:15 [garcialo]
- present+
- 16:08:16 [mgifford]
- present+
- 16:09:42 [shadi]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2023AprJun/0185.html
- 16:09:45 [Azlan_]
- present+
- 16:10:00 [Azlan_]
- scribe+ Azlan_
- 16:10:38 [shadi]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B-qfTrPxnhIa0AxhPEF6SIDTLAGnneoauBRHGzS5q7U/edit#heading=h.s0ukjtq0hqao
- 16:11:06 [shadi]
- https://w3c.github.io/silver/use-cases/
- 16:12:59 [mgifford]
- Practically, Sa11y is a nice way to provide this type of support to authors https://sa11y.netlify.app/
- 16:13:09 [Azlan_]
- shadi: We worked on situation 1 and brainstormed what can be done in each situation. There could be a technical component. There could also be a policy component.
- 16:14:07 [wendyreid]
- q+
- 16:16:02 [Azlan_]
- shadi: I would like to go through as many of these situations as we can over the coming weeks. An interesting idea last time reminded the protocols discussion as a way to address certain requirements. An organisation can put in additional requirements
- 16:16:51 [Azlan_]
- shadi: We are not seeking to find consensus but to come up with ideas.
- 16:17:00 [Azlan_]
- ack wendyreid
- 16:18:38 [Azlan_]
- Looking over the situations we are trying tackle I wonder if trying to define a framework of the parties and their responsibilities might give tools to solve the problems. If we can define the various parties e.g. the CMS provider and define responsibility and explain concepts from ATAG
- 16:19:09 [Azlan_]
- wendyreid: Looking over the situations we are trying tackle I wonder if trying to define a framework of the parties and their responsibilities might give tools to solve the problems. If we can define the various parties e.g. the CMS provider and define responsibility and explain concepts from ATAG
- 16:20:20 [mgifford]
- I had discussions about this with BigCommerce vs Shopify last year. Some vendors clearly have invested more in accessibility
- 16:22:16 [Azlan_]
- shadi: There is a lot of roles defined but not for service provider. As you say the web today is very different and we have these chains with multiple roles. Do we need to discuss this now? I think we should go through by situation and we may identify things specific to each situation. I think we will find these patterns.
- 16:22:56 [Azlan_]
- mgifford: I have started to go through the situations. I think having practical examples would be helpful.
- 16:23:03 [shadi]
- https://w3c.github.io/silver/use-cases/
- 16:23:32 [Azlan_]
- shadi: Each situation links to at least one example in the use cases.
- 16:24:16 [shadi]
- ack wendy
- 16:24:25 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 16:24:25 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Situation 2 -- taken up [from shadi]
- 16:24:41 [shadi]
- https://w3c.github.io/silver/use-cases/#situation-2
- 16:25:22 [mgifford]
- Done
- 16:25:31 [wendyreid]
- done]
- 16:25:44 [garcialo]
- done
- 16:25:59 [Azlan]
- Azlan has joined #wcag3-policy
- 16:28:23 [Azlan_]
- wendyreid: Both examples have ways to handle so may just need clarifying. Maybe add provision for the platform.
- 16:31:25 [Azlan_]
- mgifford: We need to name who has responsibility. Some things could be done through AI or simple analytics.
- 16:32:26 [Azlan_]
- shadi: There are some differences dependent upon the law but we aren't getting into writing policies.
- 16:32:45 [Azlan_]
- garcialo: What tools do policy writers have?
- 16:33:49 [mgifford]
- For user generated content, it is possible to restrict the functions that exist.
- 16:33:53 [Azlan_]
- shadi: Responsibility doesn't end at defining tools. If there are repeating patterns you have an ongoing responsibility to to monitor these trends and continuously improve the tools you have.
- 16:34:38 [Cyborg]
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- 16:34:42 [Cyborg]
- Present+
- 16:36:42 [Azlan_]
- wendyreid: Who the policy maker is is a complex thing. Mechanisms such as levels of responsibility for size of company and regular review are useful.
- 16:37:30 [Cyborg]
- q+
- 16:37:32 [Azlan_]
- mgifford: We can provide suggestions for policy. The policy makers will make their own decisions but we can provide guidance
- 16:38:58 [Azlan_]
- shadi: For now let's think about what we can do about each situation broadly.
- 16:39:19 [Azlan_]
- ack Cyborg
- 16:39:44 [shadi]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Substantial_Conformance/Example_Scenarios#Situation_2:_When_large_volumes_of_content_are_accumulating_too_rapidly_to_make_fully_conforming
- 16:40:50 [mgifford]
- For user generated content: 1) restrict what users can add (text is hard to screw up too badly). 2) ensure there is inline help text for whatever rich functionality is offered.
- 16:41:44 [Azlan_]
- Cyborg: My concern about use case 2 is around the assumptions. The risks are large if suggesting the material accumulates too quickly. I don't think adding exemption is appropriate.
- 16:42:29 [mgifford]
- 3) provide users with feedback if accessibility best practices aren't being implemented. 4) aggregate information so that trends per user can be identified. 5) find ways to gamify results such that users interests align with larger goals of the site.
- 16:42:51 [Azlan_]
- shadi: The idea is not blanket exemption. The risk analysis is important.
- 16:43:31 [Cyborg]
- if content accumulating "too rapidly", then an org needs to hire enough people to keep up with the flow
- 16:44:03 [Azlan_]
- shadi: Like the suggestion to include the risk factor
- 16:44:12 [Cyborg]
- q+
- 16:45:07 [Azlan_]
- Cyborg: Why should we care? If its accumulating to fast, it needs to be dealt with. It's not the responsibility to lower the standards
- 16:45:14 [shadi]
- ack cyborg
- 16:45:31 [Azlan_]
- mgifford: We have to give a direction of progress
- 16:46:39 [Azlan_]
- garcialo: we are talking about what could be done rather than lower the standards
- 16:48:40 [Azlan_]
- wendyreid: we have two examples of companies doing good things - both unusual for the market today. It may help to have a third use case where an app has gained traction in a very short period of time.
- 16:48:52 [Cyborg]
- q+
- 16:49:33 [Azlan_]
- shadi: Acquired content and a huge backlog is covered in situation 3
- 16:49:42 [Azlan_]
- ack Cyborg
- 16:51:32 [Azlan_]
- Cyborg: appreciate bringing in use cases and some will be covered in other use cases. We need to be mindful to not neglect the monopolies as we consider the start ups.
- 16:52:02 [Azlan_]
- wendyreid: Responsibility should scale appropriately
- 16:53:08 [Cyborg]
- +1 to considering higher traffic zones, responsibilities of larger orgs, and risks related to access to services
- 16:53:18 [Azlan_]
- garcialo: Considering the scale, accessibility of content could be prioritised.
- 16:53:38 [mgifford]
- 6) include an accessibility statement to allow PwD to report and prioritize priority pages.
- 16:55:19 [Cyborg]
- +1 to what Mike is sharing from Lucy Greco
- 16:55:21 [Azlan_]
- mgifford: Example previously given of providing captioning for everything vs take everything down. The outcome was everything was taken down making the content inaccessible for everybody
- 16:55:28 [wendyreid]
- scribe+
- 16:55:57 [wendyreid]
- Azlan_: Similar situation, an archive of legal documents, the archive was huge, being able to make them accessible, some were hand written or photographed
- 16:56:13 [wendyreid]
- ... there was discussion about situations like this, something could happen on demand
- 16:56:22 [wendyreid]
- ... then you know how to prioritizes
- 16:56:29 [wendyreid]
- ... know the needs of the end users
- 16:57:32 [Azlan_]
- garcialo: had this exact same situation
- 16:57:55 [Azlan_]
- wendyreid: Similar in publishing
- 16:58:18 [Cyborg]
- q+
- 16:58:42 [Azlan_]
- garcialo: With this reactive to what is popular. You can monitor what influencers are recommending so can predict
- 16:59:35 [Azlan_]
- shadi: The organisation could state how they will prioritise?
- 16:59:36 [shadi]
- zakim, close queue
- 16:59:36 [Zakim]
- ok, shadi, the speaker queue is closed
- 17:00:00 [mgifford]
- That's a great idea Shadi! Declaring what process an organization has is important
- 17:00:04 [Azlan_]
- Cyborg: We need to encourage anticipating and preventative strategy
- 17:00:22 [shadi]
- Topic: Next Meeting
- 17:00:42 [Azlan_]
- NO MEETING NEXT WEEK MONDAY 5TH
- 17:01:42 [mgifford]
- Reduce, reuse, recycle. People forgot the 1st two & jumped to the last one. Similar issues apply to prioritization with WCAG. How do we emphasize the priority.
- 17:02:18 [Azlan_]
- Homework to review the use cases and add thoughts and comments
- 17:04:42 [shadi]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B-qfTrPxnhIa0AxhPEF6SIDTLAGnneoauBRHGzS5q7U/edit#
- 17:05:35 [Azlan_]
- zakim, bye
- 17:05:35 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been wendyreid, shadi, garcialo, mgifford, Azlan_, Cyborg
- 17:05:35 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #wcag3-policy
- 17:05:51 [Azlan_]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:05:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/29-wcag3-policy-minutes.html Azlan_
- 17:06:03 [garcialo]
- garcialo has left #wcag3-policy
- 17:34:37 [shadi]
- rragent, make logs public
- 17:34:44 [shadi]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 17:35:17 [shadi]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:35:18 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/29-wcag3-policy-minutes.html shadi