16:51:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #a11yedge
16:51:18 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/05/22-a11yedge-irc
16:51:18 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:51:49 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
16:51:49 <janina> zakim, who's here?
16:51:49 <Zakim> Present: (no one)
16:51:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, jamesn, dmontalvo
16:51:49 <janina> Meeting: A11yEdge Teleconference
16:51:49 <janina> Date 22 May 2023
16:51:49 <janina> Chair: Janina
16:52:07 <janina> agenda+ Introductions (as needed)
16:52:21 <janina> agenda+ No call next Monday--U.S. Memorial Day
16:53:37 <janina> agenda+ Kate's Suggestions -- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-a11yedge/2023May/0004.html
16:53:59 <janina> agenda+ Capabilities Updates -- https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/
16:54:07 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
17:05:57 <Kate> Kate has joined #a11yedge
17:12:21 <Lionel> Lionel has joined #a11yedge
17:12:29 <Lionel> zakim, start meeting
17:12:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:12:30 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Lionel
17:13:18 <Lionel> Meeting: Accessibility at the Edge Community Group Weekly Teleconference, 22 May 2023
17:13:27 <Lionel> scribe: Lionel
17:13:29 <Lionel> present+
17:13:34 <Lionel> present+ Janina
17:13:47 <Lionel> present+ Kate
17:20:03 <Lionel> Murathan: I began this journey by designing type faces
17:20:17 <Lionel> ... they were ornamental, and not designed for legibility
17:22:18 <mblkt> mblkt has joined #a11yedge
17:24:04 <janina> present+
17:24:22 <mblkt> present+
17:24:29 <Lionel> janina: Please present+ yourself
17:25:10 <Kate> present+
17:25:44 <Lionel> zakim, take up item 2
17:25:44 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- No call next Monday--U.S. Memorial Day -- taken up [from janina]
17:26:49 <Lionel> zakim, close this item
17:26:49 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
17:26:50 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:26:50 <Zakim> 1. Introductions (as needed) [from janina]
17:26:55 <Lionel> zakim, next item
17:26:55 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Introductions (as needed) -- taken up [from janina]
17:26:59 <Lionel> zakim, close this item
17:26:59 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
17:27:00 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:27:00 <Zakim> 3. Kate's Suggestions -- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-a11yedge/2023May/0004.html [from janina]
17:27:01 <Lionel> zakim, next item
17:27:02 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Kate's Suggestions -- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-a11yedge/2023May/0004.html -- taken up [from janina]
17:27:49 <Lionel> Kate: The issues of settings and preferences of the user being honored at the edge
17:28:08 <Lionel> ... in proximity to that person, we have the technologies that the person is using
17:28:17 <Lionel> ... and then the content being presented at the edge
17:28:31 <Lionel> ... along with the CDN and cloud services that are further away
17:29:05 <Lionel> ... would like human centered principles
17:29:20 <Lionel> ... before we introduce the technology we should assert the human principles
17:29:29 <Lionel> rrsagent, make minues
17:29:29 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minues', Lionel.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:29:36 <Lionel> rrsagent, make minutes
17:29:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/22-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel
17:30:01 <janina> q+
17:30:01 <Lionel> present+ Shari
17:30:19 <Lionel> Shari: When you're designing for the Edge, you're designing for everybody
17:30:37 <Lionel> Kate: Considering situational and temporary disabilities, it does end up involving everybody
17:31:47 <Lionel> Kate: Privacy, time efficiency and noise characterizes what we are considering when we consider accessibility
17:31:50 <Lionel> ... and what is lost in the failure
17:32:52 <Lionel> ... Usability is fundamental. Well structured content is parseable visually, by assistive tech, and is also more discoverable by search engines
17:33:45 <Lionel> ./me Lionel says +1 to Kate
17:34:18 <Lionel> Shari: Agree on the need to address accessibility at the base
17:34:45 <Lionel> ack janina
17:35:57 <Lionel> janina: 'Curb cut' types of accomodation are great and most likely to benefit people who become disabled in some way (as is inevitable to anyone who lives long enough)
17:36:05 <Lionel> ... compare this with Braille, or Screen readers
17:36:37 <Lionel> ... people starting to lose their vision are not told to learn braille right away, you start with other accomodations
17:37:13 <Lionel> ... since language acquisition can be quite challenging, particularly later in life
17:37:31 <Lionel> ... 100% agree that something can be technically accessible, yet be nearly complete unusable
17:39:01 <Lionel> ... there's an example I just used today that required use of an on-screen keyboard to type a password. It likely passes WCAG 2.0, but is so difficult to use!
17:40:08 <Lionel> Shari: +1 to 'don't need a wheelchair to appreciate the curb cut effect'
17:41:19 <Lionel> janina: We don't want to 'boil the ocean' in this document.
17:41:30 <Lionel> ... We may be able to reference existing work rather than rewrite things, which we then might get slightly wrong
17:41:44 <Lionel> ... We may prefer to point to (1) here's why accessibility matters
17:41:52 <Lionel> ... (2) here's why you should care
17:43:08 <Lionel> Shari: Propose making a reference section as a starting point, with the definitions.
17:43:35 <Lionel> janina: There is a W3C pattern where we put reference sections with definitions at the bottom.
17:46:44 <janina> ack ja
17:46:45 <Lionel> q?
17:51:00 <Lionel> Topic: Improving Legibility of User Interfaces for Low Vision Conditions with a Crowdsource Platform
17:51:31 <Lionel> mblkt: Typefaces have different aspects like letter weight, text height, spacing
17:51:48 <Lionel> ... I looked at how these elements affect the legibility, aesthetics and individual perception
17:52:10 <Lionel> ... I found some fonts made to enhance some aspects like letter recognition
17:52:46 <Lionel> ... context though remains very important
17:52:54 <Lionel> ... and typeface alone does not determine legibility
17:53:10 <Lionel> ... I considered how the background, screen effects, etc affect legibility
17:54:15 <Lionel> ... By chance I was playing, on a game console, an older game that did not work as well
17:54:33 <Lionel> ... and a community provided a control scheme that made the old game playable on the newer console
17:54:49 <Lionel> ... this inspired me to think, perhaps a similar pattern could be applied to websites
17:54:49 <janina> q+
17:55:24 <Lionel> ... perhaps we could allow people to invent modifications that work for them
17:56:06 <Lionel> ... they could share it, and crowd source accessibility accomodations
17:56:43 <Lionel> ... I ran into the discussion regarding accessibility overlays and whether they satisfy legal requirements
17:57:15 <Lionel> ... I saw their concern, particularly in the USA and Canada where there are regulatory requirements
17:57:47 <Lionel> Shari: There is an issue when overlays are used as a 'cop-out'
17:58:21 <Lionel> ... you can do usability testing rather than focus groups
17:59:07 <Lionel> ... and watch out for duplicate content delivery challenges, for example if multiple CSS style sheets are made available
18:01:32 <Lionel> janina: Technology in and of itself does not involve the 'cop-out', it's how you use it
18:01:51 <Lionel> ... I'd like to address crowd sourcing, pros and cons
18:02:14 <Lionel> ... starting with a 'con' -- crowd sourcing of image alts was discussed in W3C space and consensus ruled it out
18:03:03 <Lionel> ... on the 'pro' side was boookshare.org, scans of books by crowd sourcing was a big success
18:07:29 <Lionel> Lionel: I invite Murathan to look closely at the type face oriented capabilities in the overlay capabilities document
18:07:37 <Lionel> mblkt: Sounds good
18:08:58 <Lionel> Shari: Context is so important.
18:09:14 <Lionel> janina: Users should be able to swap typefaces as they wish
18:17:27 <Lionel> Lionel: Reviewed the document and showed where fonts are discussed
18:17:46 <Lionel> Shari: Redundancy is often desired, as it can ensure accessibility
18:18:14 <Lionel> janina: We are heading for a principle of 'configure once, deploy everywhere', we think DIDs and VCs can support this
18:18:40 <Lionel> ... It's OK to repeat things, as some paragraphs like this bear repeating, as people might dip in and out
18:18:56 <Lionel> Shari: redundancy supports scanning as well, as opposed to careful reading.
18:19:58 <Lionel> mblkt: Link to my thesis, https://openresearch.ocadu.ca/id/eprint/4032/
18:20:17 <Lionel> rrsagent, make minues
18:20:17 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minues', Lionel.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:20:20 <Lionel> rrsagent, make minutes
18:20:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/22-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel