IRC log of a11yedge on 2023-05-22
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:51:14 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #a11yedge
- 16:51:18 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/05/22-a11yedge-irc
- 16:51:18 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 16:51:49 [Zakim]
- please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
- 16:51:49 [janina]
- zakim, who's here?
- 16:51:49 [Zakim]
- Present: (no one)
- 16:51:49 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, jamesn, dmontalvo
- 16:51:49 [janina]
- Meeting: A11yEdge Teleconference
- 16:51:49 [janina]
- Date 22 May 2023
- 16:51:49 [janina]
- Chair: Janina
- 16:52:07 [janina]
- agenda+ Introductions (as needed)
- 16:52:21 [janina]
- agenda+ No call next Monday--U.S. Memorial Day
- 16:53:37 [janina]
- agenda+ Kate's Suggestions -- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-a11yedge/2023May/0004.html
- 16:53:59 [janina]
- agenda+ Capabilities Updates -- https://a11yedge.github.io/capabilities/
- 16:54:07 [janina]
- agenda+ Be Done
- 17:05:57 [Kate]
- Kate has joined #a11yedge
- 17:12:21 [Lionel]
- Lionel has joined #a11yedge
- 17:12:29 [Lionel]
- zakim, start meeting
- 17:12:29 [Zakim]
- RRSAgent, make logs Public
- 17:12:30 [Zakim]
- please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Lionel
- 17:13:18 [Lionel]
- Meeting: Accessibility at the Edge Community Group Weekly Teleconference, 22 May 2023
- 17:13:27 [Lionel]
- scribe: Lionel
- 17:13:29 [Lionel]
- present+
- 17:13:34 [Lionel]
- present+ Janina
- 17:13:47 [Lionel]
- present+ Kate
- 17:20:03 [Lionel]
- Murathan: I began this journey by designing type faces
- 17:20:17 [Lionel]
- ... they were ornamental, and not designed for legibility
- 17:22:18 [mblkt]
- mblkt has joined #a11yedge
- 17:24:04 [janina]
- present+
- 17:24:22 [mblkt]
- present+
- 17:24:29 [Lionel]
- janina: Please present+ yourself
- 17:25:10 [Kate]
- present+
- 17:25:44 [Lionel]
- zakim, take up item 2
- 17:25:44 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- No call next Monday--U.S. Memorial Day -- taken up [from janina]
- 17:26:49 [Lionel]
- zakim, close this item
- 17:26:49 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 closed
- 17:26:50 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 17:26:50 [Zakim]
- 1. Introductions (as needed) [from janina]
- 17:26:55 [Lionel]
- zakim, next item
- 17:26:55 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Introductions (as needed) -- taken up [from janina]
- 17:26:59 [Lionel]
- zakim, close this item
- 17:26:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 closed
- 17:27:00 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 17:27:00 [Zakim]
- 3. Kate's Suggestions -- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-a11yedge/2023May/0004.html [from janina]
- 17:27:01 [Lionel]
- zakim, next item
- 17:27:02 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Kate's Suggestions -- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-a11yedge/2023May/0004.html -- taken up [from janina]
- 17:27:49 [Lionel]
- Kate: The issues of settings and preferences of the user being honored at the edge
- 17:28:08 [Lionel]
- ... in proximity to that person, we have the technologies that the person is using
- 17:28:17 [Lionel]
- ... and then the content being presented at the edge
- 17:28:31 [Lionel]
- ... along with the CDN and cloud services that are further away
- 17:29:05 [Lionel]
- ... would like human centered principles
- 17:29:20 [Lionel]
- ... before we introduce the technology we should assert the human principles
- 17:29:29 [Lionel]
- rrsagent, make minues
- 17:29:29 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minues', Lionel. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 17:29:36 [Lionel]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:29:38 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/22-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel
- 17:30:01 [janina]
- q+
- 17:30:01 [Lionel]
- present+ Shari
- 17:30:19 [Lionel]
- Shari: When you're designing for the Edge, you're designing for everybody
- 17:30:37 [Lionel]
- Kate: Considering situational and temporary disabilities, it does end up involving everybody
- 17:31:47 [Lionel]
- Kate: Privacy, time efficiency and noise characterizes what we are considering when we consider accessibility
- 17:31:50 [Lionel]
- ... and what is lost in the failure
- 17:32:52 [Lionel]
- ... Usability is fundamental. Well structured content is parseable visually, by assistive tech, and is also more discoverable by search engines
- 17:33:45 [Lionel]
- ./me Lionel says +1 to Kate
- 17:34:18 [Lionel]
- Shari: Agree on the need to address accessibility at the base
- 17:34:45 [Lionel]
- ack janina
- 17:35:57 [Lionel]
- janina: 'Curb cut' types of accomodation are great and most likely to benefit people who become disabled in some way (as is inevitable to anyone who lives long enough)
- 17:36:05 [Lionel]
- ... compare this with Braille, or Screen readers
- 17:36:37 [Lionel]
- ... people starting to lose their vision are not told to learn braille right away, you start with other accomodations
- 17:37:13 [Lionel]
- ... since language acquisition can be quite challenging, particularly later in life
- 17:37:31 [Lionel]
- ... 100% agree that something can be technically accessible, yet be nearly complete unusable
- 17:39:01 [Lionel]
- ... there's an example I just used today that required use of an on-screen keyboard to type a password. It likely passes WCAG 2.0, but is so difficult to use!
- 17:40:08 [Lionel]
- Shari: +1 to 'don't need a wheelchair to appreciate the curb cut effect'
- 17:41:19 [Lionel]
- janina: We don't want to 'boil the ocean' in this document.
- 17:41:30 [Lionel]
- ... We may be able to reference existing work rather than rewrite things, which we then might get slightly wrong
- 17:41:44 [Lionel]
- ... We may prefer to point to (1) here's why accessibility matters
- 17:41:52 [Lionel]
- ... (2) here's why you should care
- 17:43:08 [Lionel]
- Shari: Propose making a reference section as a starting point, with the definitions.
- 17:43:35 [Lionel]
- janina: There is a W3C pattern where we put reference sections with definitions at the bottom.
- 17:46:44 [janina]
- ack ja
- 17:46:45 [Lionel]
- q?
- 17:51:00 [Lionel]
- Topic: Improving Legibility of User Interfaces for Low Vision Conditions with a Crowdsource Platform
- 17:51:31 [Lionel]
- mblkt: Typefaces have different aspects like letter weight, text height, spacing
- 17:51:48 [Lionel]
- ... I looked at how these elements affect the legibility, aesthetics and individual perception
- 17:52:10 [Lionel]
- ... I found some fonts made to enhance some aspects like letter recognition
- 17:52:46 [Lionel]
- ... context though remains very important
- 17:52:54 [Lionel]
- ... and typeface alone does not determine legibility
- 17:53:10 [Lionel]
- ... I considered how the background, screen effects, etc affect legibility
- 17:54:15 [Lionel]
- ... By chance I was playing, on a game console, an older game that did not work as well
- 17:54:33 [Lionel]
- ... and a community provided a control scheme that made the old game playable on the newer console
- 17:54:49 [Lionel]
- ... this inspired me to think, perhaps a similar pattern could be applied to websites
- 17:54:49 [janina]
- q+
- 17:55:24 [Lionel]
- ... perhaps we could allow people to invent modifications that work for them
- 17:56:06 [Lionel]
- ... they could share it, and crowd source accessibility accomodations
- 17:56:43 [Lionel]
- ... I ran into the discussion regarding accessibility overlays and whether they satisfy legal requirements
- 17:57:15 [Lionel]
- ... I saw their concern, particularly in the USA and Canada where there are regulatory requirements
- 17:57:47 [Lionel]
- Shari: There is an issue when overlays are used as a 'cop-out'
- 17:58:21 [Lionel]
- ... you can do usability testing rather than focus groups
- 17:59:07 [Lionel]
- ... and watch out for duplicate content delivery challenges, for example if multiple CSS style sheets are made available
- 18:01:32 [Lionel]
- janina: Technology in and of itself does not involve the 'cop-out', it's how you use it
- 18:01:51 [Lionel]
- ... I'd like to address crowd sourcing, pros and cons
- 18:02:14 [Lionel]
- ... starting with a 'con' -- crowd sourcing of image alts was discussed in W3C space and consensus ruled it out
- 18:03:03 [Lionel]
- ... on the 'pro' side was boookshare.org, scans of books by crowd sourcing was a big success
- 18:07:29 [Lionel]
- Lionel: I invite Murathan to look closely at the type face oriented capabilities in the overlay capabilities document
- 18:07:37 [Lionel]
- mblkt: Sounds good
- 18:08:58 [Lionel]
- Shari: Context is so important.
- 18:09:14 [Lionel]
- janina: Users should be able to swap typefaces as they wish
- 18:17:27 [Lionel]
- Lionel: Reviewed the document and showed where fonts are discussed
- 18:17:46 [Lionel]
- Shari: Redundancy is often desired, as it can ensure accessibility
- 18:18:14 [Lionel]
- janina: We are heading for a principle of 'configure once, deploy everywhere', we think DIDs and VCs can support this
- 18:18:40 [Lionel]
- ... It's OK to repeat things, as some paragraphs like this bear repeating, as people might dip in and out
- 18:18:56 [Lionel]
- Shari: redundancy supports scanning as well, as opposed to careful reading.
- 18:19:58 [Lionel]
- mblkt: Link to my thesis, https://openresearch.ocadu.ca/id/eprint/4032/
- 18:20:17 [Lionel]
- rrsagent, make minues
- 18:20:17 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minues', Lionel. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 18:20:20 [Lionel]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:20:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/22-a11yedge-minutes.html Lionel