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17:54:52 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:54:53 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King
17:55:28 <Matt_King> MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
17:55:46 <Matt_King> present+
17:55:59 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
17:56:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/16-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
17:57:21 <Matt_King> TOPIC: Review agenda and next meeting date
17:58:01 <Matt_King> View agenda at https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/May-16%2C-2023-Agenda
17:58:19 <Matt_King> Next meeting scheduled for May 23.
17:58:25 <Matt_King> rrsagent, make minutes
17:58:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/16-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
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18:08:58 <jugglinmike> Topic: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force Weekly Teleconference
18:09:02 <jugglinmike> Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force Weekly Teleconference
18:09:09 <jongund> present+ jongund
18:09:10 <jugglinmike> Zakim, start the meeting
18:09:10 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
18:09:12 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jugglinmike
18:09:16 <jugglinmike> meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force Weekly Teleconference
18:09:20 <jugglinmike> Topic: site updates
18:09:23 <CurtBellew> present+
18:09:35 <jugglinmike> present+ jugglinmike
18:09:37 <jugglinmike> scribe+ jugglinmike
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18:11:13 <Matt_King> Questions from Kevin:
18:11:15 <Matt_King> • Primary vs secondary navigation reflow - The solution proposed for reflowing the navigation only reflows the secondary (left hand nav) and does not do anything with the primary main nav (APG Home, Patterns, Practices...). This is ok on the mock ups but a few more words or a slightly narrower viewport and that nav becomes difficult to use. The current approach is to put this in a scrolling...
18:11:16 <Matt_King> ...div which I don't really see as ideal.
18:11:18 <Matt_King> • Two scrolling areas - just following on from the scrolling primary nav, the solution proposed suggests a scrolling secondary nav. This would put two scrolling areas in the browser. I know from dim and distant usability testing that this can cause problems for some people. The main risk I would see with this is that users miss the scroll and don't find the items near the bottom of the list.
18:13:11 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Mockups for same level navigation in Single Pattern and Single Practice pages
18:13:20 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2535
18:14:00 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The issue related to the top navigation could be treated as something separate, right?
18:14:03 <jugglinmike> jamesn: I think so, yes
18:14:21 <jugglinmike> present+ jamesn
18:14:25 <jugglinmike> present+ Matt_King
18:20:21 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We may need to hold a call with Isaac, Kevin, and Sean in order to move this forward
18:21:17 <jugglinmike> jamesn: The W3C menu button doesn't appear to satisfy accessibility standards. For instance, the menu it opens is many "Tab" presses away
18:21:38 <jugglinmike> present+ jongund
18:21:58 <jugglinmike> jongund: I agree; it doesn't seem like something we can use on APG
18:23:55 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Do we need to get Isaac back in this meeting in order to re-present? Or is the material he provided in the issue sufficient?
18:25:57 <jugglinmike> jamesn: In Isaac's design, the position of the menu on mobile doesn't seem correct. If the focus automatically moves to the menu, then I might be okay with it
18:26:56 <jugglinmike> jamesn: On the WAI site design, the intermediate state (where one menu is collapsed and the other is not) is what concerns me
18:27:31 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: When the second nav is collapsed, where should the first one be positioned?
18:28:23 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: An action item is that Isaac should update the mobile version
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18:28:56 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: is there anything about the desktop (or "full") view that should be updated?
18:29:04 <jugglinmike> jamesn: No, I'm okay with that
18:30:22 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: There  also needs to be an affordance for collapsing the menu. It looks like there is a button at the bottom, but it should be right at the beginning
18:33:46 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The current state should be rendered consistently in both navs
18:34:04 <jugglinmike> jongund: The underline makes it look like a heading to me
18:34:43 <jugglinmike> jongund: Maybe a vertical bar on the left side would avoid giving the appearance of a heading
18:35:59 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: When the second nav is collapsed, it is not positioned in the same place that it would appear if you were to expand it. The collapsed form of it and the expanded form of it should be in the same place
18:37:15 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Also, two problems with the top menu. First is that it doesn't collapse on mobile, and the current state is visually communicated through color alone (which is a WCAG issue)
18:38:44 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Datepicker Modal Dialog: Fixed next/prev month bug and improve adherence with APG code style guide
18:38:48 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2643
18:39:02 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: jongund , about two weeks ago, jugglinmike posted feedback for you on the tests
18:40:17 <jugglinmike> jongund: I'll take a look
18:40:30 <jugglinmike> Subtopic: Listbox Examples: Update scrolling of listbox item with focus into view when page is magnified
18:40:37 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2622
18:40:57 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We're waiting on test review and code review from Alex_Flenniken
18:41:16 <jugglinmike> subtopic: Add landmark pattern page
18:41:22 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2670
18:41:39 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: The preview build hasn't rebuilt, and I don't know how to trigger it. I wish I knew how to do that
18:42:36 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: We're waiting on review from Mark, Andrea, and Kurt. But that might have to wait until we figure out how to rebuild the preview
18:43:48 <jugglinmike> jamesn: It looks like the script exited with a non-zero exit code. I think the script isn't reporting its error codes correctly
18:44:25 <jugglinmike> jamesn: But despite this, the relevant commits are rendered with green "check mark" icons on the pull request page
18:46:14 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I've converted the pull request as a draft while we work this out. When we get the preview updated, I'll remove the "draft" status
18:46:48 <jugglinmike> subtopic: Grid cell content can be actionable and editable
18:46:52 <jugglinmike> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2678
18:47:54 <jugglinmike> present+ CurtBellew
18:48:13 <jugglinmike> (CurtBellew restates the problem)
18:48:39 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: A cell might have two different kinds of actions: one to update the contents, and one to perform some action (e.g. open a dialog)
18:49:13 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: Right now: a cell can do one of those two things, and the "Enter" and "F2" key will perform the same one of those
18:49:24 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: There aren't real conventions for this, yet
18:49:51 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Google Sheets is modeled after Excel, and they're using similar design for this
18:50:39 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: The people asking about this are the authors of components that are widely used across all of Oracle
18:52:14 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: In one case, we have a field that is editable and also has a popup dialog. There's a lot of instruction to explain to users how to use that. If we could settle on a convention here (e.g. different behaviors for each of "Enter" and "F2"), then that could solve the problem. I don't know if that breaks the Internet or anything.
18:52:39 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Or pressing "Enter" could just give people the options
18:53:08 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: I think that design-wise, there's interest in making this a "one-click" kind of action
18:56:56 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: You may want to check out Google Sheets for inspiration
18:57:41 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: Please don't put in instructions and please don't use aria-haspopup. In something like this, that would drive people bananas!
18:58:54 <jugglinmike> Matt_King: I think we should have a demo in APG that shows an advanced datagrid
18:59:19 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: I'd love to do that, but I'll see how much progress I make and how much else I have going at work
19:00:02 <jugglinmike> CurtBellew: Since there's nothing that's necessarily prescribed, then I'm comfortable closing this issue
19:02:19 <jugglinmike> Zakim, end the meeting
19:02:19 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, jongund, CurtBellew, jugglinmike, jamesn
19:02:22 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
19:02:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/16-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim
19:02:59 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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