12:57:29 RRSAgent has joined #epub-fxl 12:57:33 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/05/02-epub-fxl-irc 12:57:33 RRSAgent, make logs Public 12:57:34 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), wendyreid 12:57:44 meeting: FXL Accessibility Taskforce Meeting 12:57:50 date: 2023-05-02 12:57:53 chair: wendyreid 13:00:06 gautier has joined #epub-fxl 13:01:49 CircularKen has joined #epub-fxl 13:01:54 gpellegrino has joined #epub-fxl 13:01:55 shadi has joined #epub-fxl 13:02:00 present+ 13:02:20 present+ 13:02:26 present+ 13:03:22 present+ 13:03:25 scribe+ 13:04:24 @wendyreid: this is our last closed meeting, next will be open as a working group of the publishing community group. 13:05:02 Rachel_Osolen has joined #epub-fxl 13:05:34 CircularKen: I'll share my screen. It's about practically how to help publshers with no code tools to repond what they are asked to... 13:06:15 Cristina has joined #epub-fxl 13:06:52 present+ 13:07:15 ... I'm in indesign with greenlight and circularflo. I have created reading order within indesign with an extrapanel... 13:12:13 ... I clic on one element identified on first reading order element. I clic then on an image, set it as decorative, then on another element i mark it as caption. This marks allows me to change easily reading order. It will fill the article panel for me (but article panel is not used in fxl)... This is where I was at the end of last year and presented in Frankfurt book fair... Autodefine of reading order works usually fine but in some cases I [CUT] 13:12:25 present+ 13:12:47 ... the same image in one page and so I need three different descriptions... 13:14:45 ... In that case I need to manually define reading order by regions, regions can overlap so I can get 6 elements in the reading order on one page with only one image... 13:16:47 ... by using another of our tools, masterplan, I can get an online version of the book... Using it I propose a Simple Image Description Database (SIDD). an online simple centralised image description tool... 13:20:22 ... I use airtable to get a clean and nice description editor. It allows us to not change the worflow with a free of charge and secure tool... It displays images extracted, allows to add short and long description, it's shareable with the team and author, allows to see the context page. Masterplan is linked to the airtable template and allows to import images descriptions back in InDesign... 13:23:16 ... (showing result with TTS reading image alt in perfect reading order) ... you get the idea, I use region navigation to place correcly image descriptions. 13:24:53 tzviya has joined #epub-fxl 13:25:19 @wendyreid: I like to see the worflow facilitating team work. It makes the process more usable because generally not one person does the book, it's a team work. 13:27:14 CharlesLapierre: as you cut the image in region, I understand the whole image is marked as decorative. I wonder how it works with screen reader (would it get the role image anunciated?) 13:29:03 CircularKen: description is on a region, not on image. I can share the epub so you can check the code and make tests. 13:29:25 JonasLillqvist: I see a field for extended description, how does it output? 13:30:01 CircularKen: good question, I'm not sure how to place extended descriptions in FXL. I don't know exemples. 13:30:26 gpellegrino: I would do a link to a non linear ressource with backlink. 13:31:52 CharlesLapierre: if it's an alt on a region and not on an image you could extend the alt text. But problem might be if you need strcuture in that long description. 13:34:23 gpellegrino: I would avoid visually hidden hack as long description are of use for more users than only screenreaders users. 13:36:50 CircularKen: it would be great to have a standardized way, I would like no to depend on javascript for creating popup long descriptions. 13:38:12 @wendyreid: it's a subject that will be easier to test in a community working group, make sure we have implementation possibles before adding it to epub spec. 13:40:46 CircularKen: visual to textual works in colibrio. We could re up this specification. 13:41:36 Visual to Textual Explainer https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Visual-to-Textual-Explainer--B3gdhXW873A4DxKF1eJFcRTAAg-Hhlb35fK3KZc5hpMbkCRz 13:41:59 @wendyreid: it's a perfect transition to our second subject about European Accessibility Act implementation and what in the industry we can do to help implementation. 13:42:36 CircularKen_ has joined #epub-fxl 13:44:25 q+ 13:44:53 ShadiAbou-Zahra: I think we need clarifications on mecanisms to make fxl responding to EAA (European Accessibility Act). 13:45:17 Colibrio https://demo.colibrio.com already has support for Region Navigation and Visual to Textual samples 13:46:04 ack Cristina 13:46:10 @wendyreid: the text adjustement is actually not possible in fxl. 13:48:11 Cristina: some comment on the legislation, the Act says some kind of books (art, comics, ...) can be made accessible at the start of the art. It's usefull to understand what can be done in the state of the art. 13:48:56 https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/fxl-a11y/ <-- our documentation so far 13:52:33 @wendyreid: we could do a note on the subject. 13:52:56 q+ to comment on statement 13:53:42 shadi: a statement would be stronger than a note. 13:53:53 ack tzviya 13:53:53 tzviya, you wanted to comment on statement 13:54:36 tzviya: WG publising a statement has never be tested. 13:56:41 shadi: I'm thinking about making sure our document is recognized by authorities. Let prepare something and see how to get recognition at a higher level (more formal) 13:57:43 @wendyreid: our goal is to have flexibility between CG and 13:58:58 shadi: we have 2 years before the entry in force. It's time to work to give publisher's a strong guidance. The earlier we get a concensus, the clearer we are, the better. We should be planning now. 14:00:40 Cristina: for this kind of books we have more time because publisher's already have a lot of work with reflowable books. We need to explain the state of the art, we have time for a specific standard for fxl. 14:35:07 rrsagent, please generate minutes 14:35:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/02-epub-fxl-minutes.html wendyreid 14:35:22 rrsagent, make logs public 14:36:05 zakim, end meeting 14:36:05 As of this point the attendees have been shadi, CircularKen, gpellegrino, gautier, Cristina, wendyreid 14:36:08 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 14:36:09 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/05/02-epub-fxl-minutes.html Zakim 14:36:14 I am happy to have been of service, wendyreid; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 14:36:15 Zakim has left #epub-fxl 15:57:04 rrsagent, bye 15:57:04 I see no action items