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18:59:57 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/04/18-immersive-web-irc
19:03:31 <yonet> agenda: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/meetings/cg/2023-04-18-Immersive_Web_Community_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
19:04:41 <yonet> https://issues-by-label.glitch.me/?label=face-to-face&command=/facetoface
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19:07:10 <CharlesL> present+
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19:08:38 <yonet> present+
19:08:45 <Ada_> Ada_ has joined #immersive-web
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19:09:11 <cabanier> present+
19:09:50 <Leonard> scribe Leonard
19:10:20 <Leonard> Aysegul: Topics for F2F next week M/T at Apple in Silicon Valley
19:10:59 <JoeLamyman> JoeLamyman has joined #immersive-web
19:11:03 <Leonard> ... looking for topics, especially those not already listed. Add to GitHub
19:11:10 <yonet> https://issues-by-label.glitch.me/?label=face-to-face&command=/facetoface
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19:12:06 <Leonard> 1+
19:12:09 <Leonard> q+
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19:12:25 <yonet> present+
19:12:53 <yonet> ack Leonard
19:13:00 <Ada_> hakim, open the queue
19:13:11 <Ada_> zakim, open the queue
19:13:11 <Zakim> ok, Ada_, the speaker queue is open
19:15:09 <Leonard> Lots of discussion about logistics for F2F
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19:15:34 <Leonard> Chairs will get out a timed agenda this week.
19:15:47 <yonet> https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/F2F-April-2023/schedule.md
19:15:58 <Leonard> Parking lot locations will be announced
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19:16:42 <Leonard> See above link for all schedules and location for F2F
19:18:23 <Leonard> Dinner is being planned. Ada is having difficulties with the restaurant. Stay tuned for location & other details
19:18:30 <Leonard> Dinner is Monday!
19:18:52 <Leonard> Ada: Food available for breaks & lunch
19:19:18 <Leonard> Current issues by label: https://issues-by-label.glitch.me/?label=face-to-face&command=/facetoface
19:19:44 <Leonard> https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/issues/195
19:20:16 <Leonard> Charles: Introductions of team
19:20:40 <Leonard> Sean: (Mgr of Corporate Relations at LightHouse).
19:21:27 <Leonard> Dylan (Head of Community Outreach, XR Access): Discusses NSF project to convert non-verbal communication into sound and haptic
19:21:33 <Leonard> ... communicationb
19:22:11 <Leonard> ... Include eye contact, group formation, shared (3D) objects, etc. turned into sound and haptics to allow non-visual
19:22:33 <Leonard> ... participants first-class citizens of virtual spaces
19:23:09 <Leonard> ... Goal: Create set of guidelines that can be implemented by W3C and others to make 3D worlds accessible
19:23:46 <Leonard> Charles: In addition to social cues, make (3D) objects accessible to visually impaired individuals
19:24:22 <Leonard> ... Includes audio cues of actions (whiteboard markings, etc.), then reading the result (when appropriate)
19:24:58 <Ada_> q+ to talk about possible entry points
19:25:21 <Leonard> ... Grant Phase 1 ends Sep 2023. Phase 2 (2-year) is to build Phase 1 results.
19:25:37 <Leonard> ... intent to launch company to do this at the end of Phase 2
19:26:31 <Leonard> Dylan: Make sure guidelines can be used and embraced
19:28:04 <Leonard> Sean: Including visually impaired individuals in all phases of the project. to ensure guidelines work in practice.
19:28:21 <yonet> q?
19:29:17 <yonet> ack Ada_
19:29:17 <Zakim> Ada_, you wanted to talk about possible entry points
19:29:31 <bialpio> q+
19:29:57 <Leonard> Ada: Can IW use HTML for accessiblity fall-back?
19:30:59 <Leonard> Dylan: Ties into AOM (Accessible Object Model) project. Project is defining metadata for objects + structure for spaces.
19:31:46 <Leonard> ... Work is just beginning.
19:31:48 <yonet> ack bialpio
19:32:18 <Leonard> Piotr: Goal is to expose additonal data/structure for s/w to understand semantics of the scene?
19:32:55 <Leonard> ... How are the app developers forced/encourage to use this (new) system?
19:34:10 <Leonard> Dylan: IW is part of the solution. There are other groups too (e.g., phone apps).
19:34:40 <Leonard> ... What does it take for WebXR to understand semantics. If not, where in W3C are these guidelines managed?
19:34:52 <yonet> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/blob/main/accessibility-considerations-explainer.md
19:35:12 <Leonard> From Dylan in chat: "Example of AOM work: How Do You Add Alternative Text and Metadata to glTF Objects?https://equalentry.com/accessibility-gltf-objects/"
19:36:07 <Leonard> Koolala: Best developer tools are in the browser, but there are no VR developer tool there
19:36:48 <Leonard> Charles: Looking for contact to W3C accessibility
19:36:59 <Leonard> Aysegul: Will provide it.
19:37:10 <yonet> https://www.w3.org/TR/xaur/
19:37:32 <Ada_> q+ to mention model
19:38:24 <Leonard> Shiri: (Cornell U) Goal is to have design recommendations adopted
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19:38:44 <Leonard> ... What is looked for, how do you (IW) work with other organizations, etc.?
19:39:49 <yonet> ack Ada_
19:39:49 <Zakim> Ada_, you wanted to mention model
19:40:54 <Leonard> Ada: Looking at <model> tag and the ability to include accessibility info.
19:41:27 <Leonard> Dylan: ... Alt text on 3D objects is probably not going to fly. Need to understand where people are located in space.
19:41:41 <Leonard> ... Need to understand which topics/fields go to which group.
19:41:47 <Brandel> q+
19:42:10 <Leonard> Ada: Standards would probably happen in this group
19:42:48 <Leonard> Dylan: Avatar location/orientation is important. How would that be represented in XR?
19:43:13 <Leonard> ... Would each object need to have a set of coordinates where the change would cause an audio signal
19:43:28 <bialpio> q+
19:44:05 <Leonard> Ada: Metadata system would be useful. If social VR stuff is left to developers, than it probably not be developed.
19:44:06 <Leonard> q+
19:44:49 <Leonard> ... OS (browser) has a much better opportunity of managing the information.
19:44:52 <Koolala> From the developer tools perspective, if you close your eyes and imagine every object around your room surrounded by a cube XML meta data - that meta data is what feeds into accessibility features. Model view helps here. So does 3D detached CSS.
19:46:13 <yonet> ack Brandel
19:47:04 <Leonard> Brandel: IW is not just Immersive XR. This group is "least-worst" place to start discussion, but distribution
19:47:04 <CharlesL> q+
19:47:04 <Leonard> ... is likely to happen depending on the specific issue
19:47:57 <Leonard> Dylan: Some are developer standards (e.g., alt text), others are design items. Team focus is design.
19:48:41 <Leonard> ... WebXR appears to be more focused on developer items.
19:49:54 <Leonard> Brandel: IW has WebXR API and model.
19:50:34 <Leonard> Piotr: Might have a problem with a communication channel and how to force apps to use that channel?
19:50:36 <yonet> ack bialpo
19:50:42 <yonet> ack bialpio
19:51:08 <Leonard> ... If there are multiple ways, people will choose the easiest for them
19:51:22 <Leonard> ... Need to have a developer educational program
19:52:05 <Leonard> ... Is it possible to get a binding to share semantics binding?
19:53:03 <Leonard> Yonet: Having or giving the information is not the same as making it accessible. Judicious choices must be made
19:53:42 <Koolala> Can the developer tools be that channel?
19:54:10 <Leonard> Dylan: Information Overload Mode will be overwhelming. Need a variety of screen readers that use different interpertations
19:55:14 <Leonard> ... May need to have metadata from early in the creating pipeline
19:55:43 <Leonard> Charles: Poeple from IWWG that could create an accessiblity task force?
19:55:45 <yonet> ack CharlesL
19:56:08 <Leonard> ... to steer work for accessibility
19:56:52 <yonet> ack Leonard
19:57:10 <Leonard> Leonard: Is there a short-list of very important accessibility items?
19:57:39 <Leonard> Charles: Do have a short list. Need to come up with stories and wire-frames. Will share here for reactions
19:57:56 <Leonard> Dylan: long list: https://bit.ly/xraccess-github
19:57:59 <yonet> https://github.com/XRAccessibility/xraccessibility.github.io
19:58:25 <Leonard> ... email: Dylan [AT] xraccess [DOT] org
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20:20:33 <yonet> rrsagent, make minutes
20:20:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/18-immersive-web-minutes.html yonet
20:21:18 <yonet> rrsagent, make logs public
23:59:59 <scribe> meeting: Immersive Web WG/CG bi-weekly call
23:59:59 <scribe> chair: Ada
23:59:59 <scribe> s/scribe Leonard/scribe: Leonard/
23:59:59 <scribe> previous meeting: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/meetings/wg/2023-03-21-Immersive_Web_Working_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
23:59:59 <scribe> i|Topics for F2F next week M/T at|topic: upcoming face-to-face agenda
23:59:59 <scribe> s/hakim, open the queue/zakim, open the queue/
23:59:59 <scribe> i|https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/issues/195|topic: XR Access and our NSF Grant on making non-verbal cues and documents/whiteboards in VR accessible to people with low vision and blindness.