IRC log of immersive-web on 2023-04-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:59:53 [RRSAgent]
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18:59:57 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/04/18-immersive-web-irc
19:03:31 [yonet]
agenda: https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/meetings/cg/2023-04-18-Immersive_Web_Community_Group_Teleconference-agenda.md
19:04:41 [yonet]
https://issues-by-label.glitch.me/?label=face-to-face&command=/facetoface
19:05:06 [Brandel]
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19:07:00 [CharlesL]
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19:07:10 [CharlesL]
present+
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19:08:09 [bajones]
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19:08:38 [yonet]
present+
19:08:45 [Ada_]
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19:08:49 [cabanier]
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19:09:11 [cabanier]
present+
19:09:50 [Leonard]
scribe Leonard
19:10:20 [Leonard]
Aysegul: Topics for F2F next week M/T at Apple in Silicon Valley
19:10:59 [JoeLamyman]
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19:11:03 [Leonard]
... looking for topics, especially those not already listed. Add to GitHub
19:11:10 [yonet]
https://issues-by-label.glitch.me/?label=face-to-face&command=/facetoface
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19:11:32 [Dylan]
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19:12:06 [Leonard]
1+
19:12:09 [Leonard]
q+
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19:12:25 [yonet]
present+
19:12:53 [yonet]
ack Leonard
19:13:00 [Ada_]
hakim, open the queue
19:13:11 [Ada_]
zakim, open the queue
19:13:11 [Zakim]
ok, Ada_, the speaker queue is open
19:15:09 [Leonard]
Lots of discussion about logistics for F2F
19:15:27 [bialpio]
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19:15:34 [Leonard]
Chairs will get out a timed agenda this week.
19:15:47 [yonet]
https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/main/F2F-April-2023/schedule.md
19:15:58 [Leonard]
Parking lot locations will be announced
19:16:42 [lgombos]
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19:16:42 [Leonard]
See above link for all schedules and location for F2F
19:18:23 [Leonard]
Dinner is being planned. Ada is having difficulties with the restaurant. Stay tuned for location & other details
19:18:30 [Leonard]
Dinner is Monday!
19:18:52 [Leonard]
Ada: Food available for breaks & lunch
19:19:18 [Leonard]
Current issues by label: https://issues-by-label.glitch.me/?label=face-to-face&command=/facetoface
19:19:44 [Leonard]
https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/issues/195
19:20:16 [Leonard]
Charles: Introductions of team
19:20:40 [Leonard]
Sean: (Mgr of Corporate Relations at LightHouse).
19:21:27 [Leonard]
Dylan (Head of Community Outreach, XR Access): Discusses NSF project to convert non-verbal communication into sound and haptic
19:21:33 [Leonard]
... communicationb
19:22:11 [Leonard]
... Include eye contact, group formation, shared (3D) objects, etc. turned into sound and haptics to allow non-visual
19:22:33 [Leonard]
... participants first-class citizens of virtual spaces
19:23:09 [Leonard]
... Goal: Create set of guidelines that can be implemented by W3C and others to make 3D worlds accessible
19:23:46 [Leonard]
Charles: In addition to social cues, make (3D) objects accessible to visually impaired individuals
19:24:22 [Leonard]
... Includes audio cues of actions (whiteboard markings, etc.), then reading the result (when appropriate)
19:24:58 [Ada_]
q+ to talk about possible entry points
19:25:21 [Leonard]
... Grant Phase 1 ends Sep 2023. Phase 2 (2-year) is to build Phase 1 results.
19:25:37 [Leonard]
... intent to launch company to do this at the end of Phase 2
19:26:31 [Leonard]
Dylan: Make sure guidelines can be used and embraced
19:28:04 [Leonard]
Sean: Including visually impaired individuals in all phases of the project. to ensure guidelines work in practice.
19:28:21 [yonet]
q?
19:29:17 [yonet]
ack Ada_
19:29:17 [Zakim]
Ada_, you wanted to talk about possible entry points
19:29:31 [bialpio]
q+
19:29:57 [Leonard]
Ada: Can IW use HTML for accessiblity fall-back?
19:30:59 [Leonard]
Dylan: Ties into AOM (Accessible Object Model) project. Project is defining metadata for objects + structure for spaces.
19:31:46 [Leonard]
... Work is just beginning.
19:31:48 [yonet]
ack bialpio
19:32:18 [Leonard]
Piotr: Goal is to expose additonal data/structure for s/w to understand semantics of the scene?
19:32:55 [Leonard]
... How are the app developers forced/encourage to use this (new) system?
19:34:10 [Leonard]
Dylan: IW is part of the solution. There are other groups too (e.g., phone apps).
19:34:40 [Leonard]
... What does it take for WebXR to understand semantics. If not, where in W3C are these guidelines managed?
19:34:52 [yonet]
https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/blob/main/accessibility-considerations-explainer.md
19:35:12 [Leonard]
From Dylan in chat: "Example of AOM work: How Do You Add Alternative Text and Metadata to glTF Objects?https://equalentry.com/accessibility-gltf-objects/"
19:36:07 [Leonard]
Koolala: Best developer tools are in the browser, but there are no VR developer tool there
19:36:48 [Leonard]
Charles: Looking for contact to W3C accessibility
19:36:59 [Leonard]
Aysegul: Will provide it.
19:37:10 [yonet]
https://www.w3.org/TR/xaur/
19:37:32 [Ada_]
q+ to mention model
19:38:24 [Leonard]
Shiri: (Cornell U) Goal is to have design recommendations adopted
19:38:27 [Koolala]
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19:38:44 [Leonard]
... What is looked for, how do you (IW) work with other organizations, etc.?
19:39:49 [yonet]
ack Ada_
19:39:49 [Zakim]
Ada_, you wanted to mention model
19:40:54 [Leonard]
Ada: Looking at <model> tag and the ability to include accessibility info.
19:41:27 [Leonard]
Dylan: ... Alt text on 3D objects is probably not going to fly. Need to understand where people are located in space.
19:41:41 [Leonard]
... Need to understand which topics/fields go to which group.
19:41:47 [Brandel]
q+
19:42:10 [Leonard]
Ada: Standards would probably happen in this group
19:42:48 [Leonard]
Dylan: Avatar location/orientation is important. How would that be represented in XR?
19:43:13 [Leonard]
... Would each object need to have a set of coordinates where the change would cause an audio signal
19:43:28 [bialpio]
q+
19:44:05 [Leonard]
Ada: Metadata system would be useful. If social VR stuff is left to developers, than it probably not be developed.
19:44:06 [Leonard]
q+
19:44:49 [Leonard]
... OS (browser) has a much better opportunity of managing the information.
19:44:52 [Koolala]
From the developer tools perspective, if you close your eyes and imagine every object around your room surrounded by a cube XML meta data - that meta data is what feeds into accessibility features. Model view helps here. So does 3D detached CSS.
19:46:13 [yonet]
ack Brandel
19:47:04 [Leonard]
Brandel: IW is not just Immersive XR. This group is "least-worst" place to start discussion, but distribution
19:47:04 [CharlesL]
q+
19:47:04 [Leonard]
... is likely to happen depending on the specific issue
19:47:57 [Leonard]
Dylan: Some are developer standards (e.g., alt text), others are design items. Team focus is design.
19:48:41 [Leonard]
... WebXR appears to be more focused on developer items.
19:49:54 [Leonard]
Brandel: IW has WebXR API and model.
19:50:34 [Leonard]
Piotr: Might have a problem with a communication channel and how to force apps to use that channel?
19:50:36 [yonet]
ack bialpo
19:50:42 [yonet]
ack bialpio
19:51:08 [Leonard]
... If there are multiple ways, people will choose the easiest for them
19:51:22 [Leonard]
... Need to have a developer educational program
19:52:05 [Leonard]
... Is it possible to get a binding to share semantics binding?
19:53:03 [Leonard]
Yonet: Having or giving the information is not the same as making it accessible. Judicious choices must be made
19:53:42 [Koolala]
Can the developer tools be that channel?
19:54:10 [Leonard]
Dylan: Information Overload Mode will be overwhelming. Need a variety of screen readers that use different interpertations
19:55:14 [Leonard]
... May need to have metadata from early in the creating pipeline
19:55:43 [Leonard]
Charles: Poeple from IWWG that could create an accessiblity task force?
19:55:45 [yonet]
ack CharlesL
19:56:08 [Leonard]
... to steer work for accessibility
19:56:52 [yonet]
ack Leonard
19:57:10 [Leonard]
Leonard: Is there a short-list of very important accessibility items?
19:57:39 [Leonard]
Charles: Do have a short list. Need to come up with stories and wire-frames. Will share here for reactions
19:57:56 [Leonard]
Dylan: long list: https://bit.ly/xraccess-github
19:57:59 [yonet]
https://github.com/XRAccessibility/xraccessibility.github.io
19:58:25 [Leonard]
... email: Dylan [AT] xraccess [DOT] org
19:59:17 [CharlesL]
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20:06:09 [bkardell_]
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20:20:33 [yonet]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:20:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/18-immersive-web-minutes.html yonet
20:21:18 [yonet]
rrsagent, make logs public