16:57:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:57:17 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/04/13-aria-irc
16:57:17 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:57:18 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA WG
16:57:18 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn
16:58:28 <Adam_Page> Adam_Page has joined #aria
16:59:30 <jamesn> agendabot, find agenda
16:59:30 <agendabot> jamesn, OK. This may take a minute...
16:59:31 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/ecffaf8b-8aa7-4acc-b238-6088a86cf12f/20230413T130000
16:59:31 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:59:31 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3ZYoPOH
16:59:31 <agendabot> agenda+  -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3zMqexo
16:59:33 <agendabot> agenda+  -> May F2F https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Spring-2023-F2F
16:59:41 <agendabot> agenda+  -> TPAC 2023 https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/
16:59:41 <agendabot> agenda+  -> 1.3 blocking issues https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+sort%3Acreated-asc+label%3A1.3-Blocking+
17:01:33 <arigilmore_> arigilmore_ has joined #aria
17:01:44 <BenBeaudry> BenBeaudry has joined #aria
17:01:50 <BenBeaudry> present+
17:01:59 <spectranaut_> spectranaut_ has joined #aria
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17:02:07 <arigilmore_> present+
17:02:10 <spectranaut_> agenda?
17:02:24 <spectranaut_> chair: spectranaut_
17:04:25 <scotto> scotto has joined #aria
17:05:19 <MarkMcCarthy> MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria
17:05:22 <MarkMcCarthy> present+
17:08:05 <alisonmaher> present+
17:08:36 <MarkMcCarthy> scribe+
17:08:41 <MarkMcCarthy> zakim, next item
17:08:41 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3ZYoPOH -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:08:58 <Adam_Page> present+
17:09:05 <jamesn> present+
17:09:27 <jamesn> regrets+ CurtBellew
17:09:30 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: there's a PR for for 471 - we'll get there
17:09:38 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: how should we label 1915?
17:09:43 <jamesn> regrets+ PeterKrautzberger
17:09:46 <MarkMcCarthy> scotto: we can agenda it, it probably wouldn't be great for triage
17:09:54 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: if we have time we'll chat about it later today
17:10:00 <jamesn> regrets+ StefanSchnabel
17:10:16 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: next, 1914, discussion ARIA relational terms, probably an F2F topic
17:10:35 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: ARIA 1912, minor clarification for aria-expanded
17:11:26 <MarkMcCarthy> scotto: got brought up that there's a passage in spec talking about the grouping owning an element's expanded/collapsed content, feels relevant to tree item, but in the example in 1912, I *wouldn't* expect a button like that to be owned by that group
17:11:33 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: would this need larger discussion?
17:11:54 <MarkMcCarthy> scotto: i don't think it needs to be agenda'd, but some reviews by those interested would be helpful
17:12:06 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: probably not a big deal, just needs a fairly simple PR
17:12:20 <MarkMcCarthy> Adam_Page: i can take a look at it
17:13:48 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: next is html-aam 467 - thoughts?
17:14:27 <sarah_higley> sarah_higley has joined #aria
17:14:46 <MarkMcCarthy> scotto: i think this could be a good agenda topic. there's a lot of work that went into revising comboboxes. the select element IS different between Windows and macOS, and that means it's functionally impossible to create a consistent combobox. I'd love to get jcraig's help in that discussion
17:15:18 <MarkMcCarthy> MarioB: yes, there's a lot that can be done to clarify that
17:16:06 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: next is ARIA 1910, this seems reasonable, we can add it to 1.4 (unless there are objections)
17:16:28 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: maybe a Good First Issue for someone?
17:17:10 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: I don't think it's necessarily simple - keyboard shortcuts can't be automatically translated. I wonder if this is a wontfix, but could be listed somewhere else
17:17:23 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: i'll add a comment witht those thoughts
17:17:36 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: core-aam 169 - that's editorial and I can take it
17:18:22 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: ARIA 1907 ... is this just missing some information? seems like it to me, any disagreement?
17:18:47 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: i think this should be pretty straightforward
17:19:47 <MarkMcCarthy> scotto: there IS mention of this in 9.2 States and Properties
17:20:13 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: -valuemax and -valuemin don't have implicit values so shouldn't be there anyway
17:20:21 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: this SHOULD be a Good First Issue if someone would like it
17:20:33 <MarkMcCarthy> BenBeaudry: I can take care of that
17:21:21 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: ARIA 1904 ... BenBeaudry did you want this too?
17:21:22 <MarkMcCarthy> BenBeaudry: sure!
17:22:06 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: ARIA 1903 - there's already a PR open so we'll get to that in a sec
17:22:32 <MarkMcCarthy> Zakim, next item
17:22:32 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3zMqexo -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:24:41 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: scotto did you want to talk about PR 472?
17:25:42 <MarkMcCarthy> scotto: it was mentioned to me that I didn't update text referring to Steps 1 and 2, but there's now a third step. Got that revised. When looking at it again though, it didn't make a whole lot of sense, so I even further clarified it to better match reality. No normative changes or anything, just specific info
17:25:52 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: bryanG did you want to look at it?
17:25:57 <MarkMcCarthy> BryanG: Sure thing
17:26:04 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: i'll approve it right now
17:26:19 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: reads like an improvement to me
17:26:36 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: I'll add BenBeaudry too
17:26:59 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: Next is PR 1913. Peter and daniel-montalvo already took a look, i'll take a look too
17:27:34 <MarkMcCarthy> arigilmore_: we added a github workflow that checks incoming PRs for mistaken lowercase versions of MAY, SHOULD, SHOULD NOT, etc.
17:27:46 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: is this a warning or does it block merging?
17:28:11 <MarkMcCarthy> arigilmore_: it'll come up as a failed check
17:28:39 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: is it possible to ignore it? something like REQUIRED could be difficult to work around (like when using the HTML attribute)
17:29:13 <MarkMcCarthy> arigilmore_: it only checks incoming PRs right now, anything already there it won't fail. if it's not REQUIRED as a check it shouldn't block merging
17:29:44 <MarkMcCarthy> mattKing: There's a github setting for what checks can block a merge, that's what we do in APG, and it's more of a managerial setting for us
17:29:57 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: as long as there's an option to override etc. then it should be fine
17:30:54 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: so then maybe for now we just remove required, optional, recommended?
17:31:13 <MarkMcCarthy> arigilmore_: I DID add spacing aroud them, so it should only look for them in sentences, but I can do that for sure
17:31:50 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: I'm just worried about it causing issues where we use those words in non-normative settings
17:32:45 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: what if we make a followup issue to discuss removing those words in RFC-2119 from the spec where not used in normative settings?
17:32:50 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: sure
17:32:53 <MarkMcCarthy> arigilmore_: yep
17:33:47 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: PR 470 and 469 - both in HTML AAM... any reviewers?
17:34:20 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: the mapping tables are how we translate ARIA from HTML to the accessibility APIs
17:34:25 <MarkMcCarthy> arigilmore_: i can take a look
17:34:40 <MarkMcCarthy> DougG: I can take a look too
17:36:11 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: if you're new to the W3C org on Github, and new to the WG, send your Github IDs to daniel-montalvo so he can add you to the org
17:36:33 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: ARIA 1909 - I can take a look at this, jamesn is on it
17:36:54 <MarkMcCarthy> MarkMcCarthy: i can too
17:37:25 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: next is ARIA 1908
17:37:51 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: i can probably merge this, I reviewed it already, probably doesn't need another check
17:38:03 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: next is ARIA 1906
17:38:52 <MarkMcCarthy> Adam_Page: not a ton to say, some editorial cleanup. we wanted to be more consistent when linking out to other specs when using terms, particularly the HTML spec, XRef gives us a way to do that consistently. just swapped that syntax in.
17:39:01 <MarkMcCarthy> Adam_Page: may be a way to do this for other specs, but HTML is a good start
17:39:11 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: i can merge this without problem
17:39:42 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: we need to revise the whole "how we do ARIA references" section, it's a little complicated but does need updating
17:39:51 <MarkMcCarthy> mattKing: is XRef a respec thing or something different?
17:40:04 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: it uses WebRef. XRef is a respec implementation of WebRef
17:40:54 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: Adam_Page could you document this somewhere for us? Maybe in the documentation folder?
17:41:08 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: we should probably start with the contributing document--
17:41:19 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: the README is what needs the updating, actually
17:42:00 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: either way, we need to point to some examples of spec specific implementations and all
17:42:07 <MarkMcCarthy> Adam_Page: i cant take a look at this
17:42:33 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: last PR is ARIA 1905 - BenBeaudry can you check, since you're assigned that issue?
17:42:34 <MarkMcCarthy> BenBeaudry: no problem
17:43:04 <MarkMcCarthy> zakim, next item
17:43:04 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- -> May F2F https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Spring-2023-F2F -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:43:57 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: the link in the agendum has all information you'll need for attending the F2F
17:43:59 <Adam_Page> s/i cant take/i can take
17:44:37 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: if you can't attend in person but there's a topic you're interested in, let chairs know as the schedule can be moved around a bit
17:45:06 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: i need to make sure we've got the right numbers, so if anyone is planning on attending let me know ASAP so we can work out the room size
17:45:22 <MarkMcCarthy> Rashmi: is there remote attendance available?
17:45:30 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: there's no link yet but there will be
17:46:04 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: again, if you are interested in attending anything specifically but the time isn't good for timezones etc. let me or spectranaut_ know and we can try to move things aroud
17:46:08 <MarkMcCarthy> s/aroud/around
17:46:23 <MarkMcCarthy> mattKing: is there a way to see if we've registered?
17:46:32 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: you're good Matt
17:47:32 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: responses are available to see by the group,
17:48:10 <MarkMcCarthy> cyns: is lunch in Adobe's building or outside somewhere?
17:48:18 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: should be in the Adobe cafe
17:48:48 <MarkMcCarthy> MarkMcCarthy: if you're virtual do you need to register?
17:49:11 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: no we only need for physical counts, but if you're incredibly interested register anyway so we know to expect you
17:49:52 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: well..... if you're plannign to attend remotely it might be good for us to know and keep track anyway. if you hope to attend, edit the wiki with that info (your name and what you're attending)
17:50:33 <MarkMcCarthy> zakim, next item
17:50:33 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- -> TPAC 2023 https://www.w3.org/2023/09/TPAC/ -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:51:03 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: TPAC is Sept 11-15 this year, in Seville, Spain
17:51:17 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: the group IS planning to meet, unless no one is planning to attend physically
17:51:34 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: we've got the option to meet on different days, whatever works. several timeslots open
17:52:03 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: poll had gone out recently, particularly if there are issues with meeting on Thurs or Fri (taking into account Jewish Holidays)
17:52:20 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: barring conflicts with something like that, it's looking like we'll meet that Thurs or Fri
17:52:47 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: the website is there with all the pertinent details (facilities, hotels, etc.)
17:53:15 <MarkMcCarthy> mattKing: at this time, do you have a sense of any specific important things to meet with other groups about?
17:53:48 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: no one has come to US with anything yet, so... I think lots of groups are talking about the same thing. If anyone has anything they'd like to discuss with other groups, let me or spectranaut_ know
17:54:14 <MarkMcCarthy> mattKing: I think live region discussions might be one of those things that's needing to go beyond ARIA, but we'll know more after F2F @ Seattle
17:54:24 <MarkMcCarthy> zakim, next item
17:54:24 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- -> 1.3 blocking issues https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+sort%3Acreated-asc+label%3A1.3-Blocking+ -- taken up [from
17:54:27 <Zakim> ... agendabot]
17:55:08 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: ARIA 1150, 1163 - I think I want to discuss those at F2F
17:55:22 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: ARIA 1177, mattKing...
17:55:29 <MarkMcCarthy> mattKing: yep, working on it
17:55:56 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: 1487 jamesn and I are working on it, 1824 I'm looking into
17:56:08 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: sarah_higley just updated 1464!
17:56:12 <MarkMcCarthy> spectranaut_: woohoo!
17:56:54 <MarkMcCarthy> zakim, who is here?
17:56:54 <Zakim> Present: BenBeaudry, arigilmore_, MarkMcCarthy, alisonmaher, Adam_Page, jamesn
17:56:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see sarah_higley, MarkMcCarthy, scotto, alisonmaher, spectranaut_, BenBeaudry, arigilmore_, Adam_Page, RRSAgent, Zakim, jamesn, Mike5Matrix, n0nakamura, sdd, leobalter,
17:56:57 <Zakim> ... Jamie, clafase, \join_iwp9, MichaelC, agendabot, github-bot, ada, ZoeBijl, gregwhitworth, slightlyoff, timeless, Josh_Soref, bigbluehat, chrishtr, JonathanNeal, jcraig,
17:56:57 <Zakim> ... daniel-montalvo, trackbot
17:57:33 <MarkMcCarthy> present+ MattKing BryanGaraventa sarah_higley scotto
17:57:44 <MarkMcCarthy> present+ daniel-montalvo
17:58:48 <MarkMcCarthy> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:58:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/13-aria-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy
17:59:51 <MarkMcCarthy> jamesn: blocking issues aside, maybe it'll be good to discuss making ARIA evergreen at TPAC
17:59:56 <MarkMcCarthy> mattKing: yeah I think so!
18:00:05 <MarkMcCarthy> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:00:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/13-aria-minutes.html MarkMcCarthy
18:00:12 <sarah_higley> present+