IRC log of aria-apg on 2023-04-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/04/04-aria-apg-irc
17:50:20 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
17:50:21 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King
17:50:42 [Matt_King]
MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force
17:50:49 [Matt_King]
CHAIR: Matt King
17:50:53 [Matt_King]
present+
17:51:02 [Matt_King]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:51:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/04-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
17:52:07 [Matt_King]
TOPIC: Review agenda and next meeting date
17:52:26 [Matt_King]
Agenda available at https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/April-4%2C-2023-Agenda
17:52:38 [Matt_King]
Next meeting is April 11.
17:52:45 [Matt_King]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:52:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/04-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
17:54:10 [Matt_King]
View agenda at https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/April-4%2C-2023-Agenda
17:54:23 [Matt_King]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:54:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/04-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
17:58:46 [jugglinmike]
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18:01:21 [jugglinmike]
present+ jugglinmike
18:01:25 [jugglinmike]
scribe+ jugglinmike
18:01:50 [arigilmore]
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present+
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18:04:14 [Andrea]
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18:04:18 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Meetings scheduled regularly all through the month of April
18:04:30 [jugglinmike]
present+ Andrea
18:05:16 [Andrea_]
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18:05:34 [jugglinmike]
Topic: Status of Site Updates
18:05:42 [CurtBellew]
present+
18:05:50 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: Previews of 5 AT support tables available:
18:05:56 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: This is informational
18:06:39 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: In the "main" branch and preview (but not yet in production): Alert, Command and Toggle Button, Link, and Radio Group
18:06:47 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Everything is ready to go with one exception
18:06:57 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: JAWS with Radio Group is currently at 99%
18:07:47 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: After speaking with James_Scholes today, we're planning to remove the test which accounts for the missing 1% on JAWS part
18:08:08 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Our goal is to push these to production on Tuesday of next week and then do an announcement on Thursday
18:08:20 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: So we have to get that figured out in the mean time
18:08:36 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: And my goal is share a draft of the announcement by this coming Thursday
18:09:01 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I'm planning to share the draft with the folks here
18:09:13 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: About page ready for review - pull request 2558
18:09:22 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2558
18:09:26 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I'd like to merge this
18:09:33 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I've received feedback from a few people on it
18:09:46 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Last night, I made a few changes based on feedback from John_Gunderson
18:10:08 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I had some difficulty--I made changes to the branch, but they weren't showing up in the preview
18:10:18 [jugglinmike]
present+ Alex_Flenniken
18:11:06 [jugglinmike]
Alex_Flenniken: That's due to how I created the preview for you. It's using Git Submodules in a way that prevents automatic updates. I can manually update the submodule for you
18:11:42 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: That works
18:12:03 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I'd like to merge it in time to include it for the April 11th update
18:12:42 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I'd also appreciate a review from jamesn
18:12:52 [jugglinmike]
present+ jamesn
18:13:52 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: So, the sections named "Introduction" and "ARIA Basics"?
18:14:24 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Yup, those are the two new sections. The other text could probably use some work as well, but it is wholesale copied from elsewhere on the site--it's what we've already published
18:15:01 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: we'll skip the other items for this topic in the agenda)
18:15:07 [jugglinmike]
Topic: Pull request reviews
18:15:23 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: PR 2618 - Combobox Date Picker Example: Change previous and next month and year behavior for dates near end of month by jongund
18:15:32 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: This is merged
18:15:44 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: PR 2643 - Datepicker Modal Dialog: Updated code and fixed next/prev month bug by jongund
18:15:58 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2643
18:16:05 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I'll be doing the editorial review
18:16:15 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I'm looking for support on visual design review, code review, and testing
18:16:43 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: There aren't a lot of changes in this pull request; it's only four files (one CSS and two JS and on HTML)
18:16:58 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Because there was a small change to the CSS, I want to make sure someone is looking at this visually
18:17:06 [jugglinmike]
arigilmore: I can do visual review and code review
18:17:22 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Great--thank you
18:17:40 [jugglinmike]
Alex_Flenniken: I can do the test review
18:17:55 [MarkMcCarthy]
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18:17:58 [MarkMcCarthy]
present+
18:18:14 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: arigilmore do you think you'll be able to do that review this week?
18:18:23 [jugglinmike]
arigilmore: Yes
18:18:38 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: PR 2625 - Tablist Examples: Improve support for magnification by jongund
18:18:47 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2625
18:19:02 [jugglinmike]
Andrea_: I think this just requires a final accessibility review from me
18:19:15 [jugglinmike]
Andrea_: I have to set up some ATs, but I expect to finish that today
18:19:27 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Looks like you have some suggested edits in here
18:19:54 [jugglinmike]
Andrea_: Yeah, a couple of typos
18:20:20 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: looks like Alex_Flenniken is also assigned to this, too
18:20:33 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: We may be able to include this for April 11, too. That'd be great
18:20:50 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: PR 2622 - Listbox Examples: Update scrolling of listbox item with focus into view when page is magnified by jongund
18:20:57 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2622
18:21:05 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: This is waiting on me, at least
18:21:21 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Jon is listed as a review on his own tests. That doesn't make sense.
18:21:47 [jugglinmike]
Alex_Flenniken: I ran the tests successfully, but I don't know if I'm supposed to do something else to check the tests
18:22:13 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: We're interested in the way the tests were coded--a regression test to make sure they're still covering all the things they're supposed to
18:22:20 [jugglinmike]
Alex_Flenniken: I did that
18:22:37 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Okay, then this pull request is just waiting on me
18:22:51 [jugglinmike]
Topic: Check-in on gh-pages feedback
18:23:07 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: Obsolete gh-pages branch: Feedback on redirect presentation and code quality · Issue #2651 · w3c/aria-practices
18:23:09 [Github]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2651 : Obsolete gh-pages branch: Feedback on redirect presentation and code quality
18:23:14 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2651
18:24:10 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: The issue is that the gh-pages (where we previously had the editor's draft of the editor's doc)--we just trimmed that down
18:24:22 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: This is a page that a lot of people used to refer to
18:24:36 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: But the goal is for eventually this to receive zero traffic
18:24:51 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: It used to have a lot of sections and headings; a section for every pattern, etc.
18:25:03 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: People may have linked directly to those sections
18:25:28 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: The new version provides links to the specific pages that we've since created
18:25:57 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: People have taken issue with the way that it's coded
18:26:04 [jamesn]
q+
18:26:32 [jamesn]
ack me
18:30:30 [jugglinmike]
The group is considering closing this as a "won't fix" if a pull request is not received in a few weeks' time.
18:33:01 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: PR 2643 - Datepicker Modal Dialog: Updated code and fixed next/prev month bug by jongund
18:34:23 [jugglinmike]
Topic: Date picker date selection issue
18:34:36 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2646
18:34:51 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I didn't know if we wanted to try to fit this in
18:35:01 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: It's about the Date Picker Dialog
18:36:16 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: This is interesting because in this example, the selection doesn't follow the focus, but if you press "Enter", it does select and close.
18:36:20 [jamesn]
q+
18:36:29 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I'm curious if people here thinks this is a bug or not
18:37:05 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: In this particular case, the user is moving the date that has focus by pressing the "next month" button, but doesn't ever directly focus on that date
18:38:17 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: I think it's not a bug. It seems like there is a bug here in that this date picker is not doing what the keyboard says it should do when you press "space" on the date grid. I'm not sure I agree with what it says it should do
18:38:31 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: Visually, selection follows focus
18:39:31 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: It seems to me that there's no point in selecting a different date from the one the focus is on (in this example)
18:39:54 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: I didn't even see that there was a style in the one that you press "space" on--it's visually very subtle
18:40:12 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: So it seems like the bug here is a design problem. That really, selection should be following focus, period
18:40:19 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: That's what the keyboard instructions say
18:40:37 [jugglinmike]
CurtBellew: If you cancel it, it goes back to the default, right?
18:40:43 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: That's right
18:41:18 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: If I choose April 1st, and then I go into the dialog and move all around and even choose another, when I hit cancel, it should go back to April 1st
18:41:52 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: That's not how it's behaving right now
18:42:14 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: So "Space" is actually changing the value of the input
18:42:19 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: That's right
18:42:31 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: But "cancel" isn't really undoing things, here
18:42:39 [jugglinmike]
CurtBellew: No, not when the space bar is involved
18:43:21 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: As an aside--we should probably do a "date range" selector at some point, too.
18:44:00 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: So is this a documentation bug, or do we want to change the focus model?
18:44:08 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: I'm inclined toward the latter
18:44:19 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: Me too, it would simplify things
18:45:55 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: So, we propose to make Space and Enter behave the same way when the focus is on the grid. That would make it impossible to get into this situation
18:47:54 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: Right now, I have April 6th in the input field. If I go into the dialog and tab to the button right after "Okay" which is "Previous Year". If I press that button, I assume it's on April 6. If I back-tab, I expect it to read April 6. And it did
18:48:05 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: So the focus never changed
18:48:56 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: We already have a problem where the difference between "focused" and "selected" isn't clear, visually. We don't have to solve that here.
18:49:47 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: There are some related pull requests in review, but since they're almost done, we'll address this with a new pull request
18:49:59 [jugglinmike]
Topic: New Issue Action Planning
18:50:47 [jugglinmike]
Subtopic: Suggestion: aria-live triggers (certain attributes) #2668
18:50:48 [Github]
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2668 : Suggestion: aria-live triggers (certain attributes)
18:50:52 [jugglinmike]
github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2668
18:51:44 [jugglinmike]
Matt_King: They're talking about the DOM changes necessary to get aria-live to trigger
18:52:01 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: This sounds like an ARIA issue, not a aria-practices issue
18:55:27 [jugglinmike]
jamesn: I think this is a duplicate of one or two issues in aria-practices
19:00:06 [jugglinmike]
Zakim, end the meeting
19:00:06 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, jugglinmike, arigilmore, Andrea, CurtBellew, Alex_Flenniken, jamesn, MarkMcCarthy
19:00:09 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
19:00:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/04/04-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim
19:00:16 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
19:00:16 [Zakim]
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