Meeting minutes
xfq: I attended the I18N ⇔ CSS call today
xfq: we discussed a few Chinese-related issues
Specify width of autospace gaps
xfq: Do we need multiple controls or do we need one?
… I think we need one
… what do you think?
Yijun: I can't think of a use case for multiple controls
… one control is simpler
huijing: is it implmented?
xfq: not yet, but Apple is interested
https://
[Discuss the default value of text-spacing]
xfq: if the element’s content language is French, space is inserted where required by French typographic guidelines
xfq: it is controlled by the same mechanism
[css-text-4] text-autospace: what gets copied?
xfq: if a content author applies auto-space, then a reader copies the text containing gaps. What ends up on the clipboard?
https://
xfq: in today's I18N ⇔ CSS call the conclusion seemed to be landing on copying the transformed output
… for both French and CJK
http://
[Discuss the French case]
Eric: for Chinese and Japanese, manually adding spaces pollutes the text
Eric: Because it is a typographic requirement
Eric: the French case is different
Eric: French will add spaces even if the browser doesn't support this
Eric: There must be spaces in plain text
xfq: I agree
… Florian said that we could look at PDF output of high-quality engines to see what they do
Eric: Most of the Chinese and Japanese texts do not have the extra space added manually
Eric: If the browser supports text-autospace, and there's a space when copied out, the text will be polluted
Yijun: for French if there's no space it is a typo
Yijun: for Chinese, ideally other environments should add spacing automatically instead of the browser adding this space
Yijun: it is styling and the source text shoudn't be modified
xfq: 'text-transform: uppercase;' shouldn't make the copied text uppercase
Zhengyu: I don't think the copied French text should have spaces either
Zhengyu: CSS is only responsible for styling and should not modify the source text
Zhengyu: The enabling and disabling of a certain CSS style sheet by the user agent should not affect the copied text
Zhengyu: even though CSS has visually transformed one character into another, like text-transform
Zhengyu: The behavior of copy and paste should not be affected by CSS
Zhengyu: Fundamentally speaking, adding spaces to French is completely different from adding gaps between ideographs and non-ideographic letters/numerals
Zhengyu: The French case is an issue of grammar or writing style, while ideograph and non-ideograph case is a design issue
Zhengyu: I even think they should be controlled by different CSS properties, but that's a separate issue
Zhengyu: so I think space should not be added into the copied text
Eric: so we have consensus on this issue
xfq: I expressed my personal opinion in today's I18N ⇔ CSS call, and I will give feedback on behalf of our TF later
xfq: also interested to see the opinion of the jlreq TF
Eric: with this feature French people don't need to type spaces any more? I don't believe so. But for Chinese, without this feature, we should not manually add spaces
Yijun: The same is true for commas and periods in English, if there is no space after it, the browser should not add it automatically
[Discuss the behavior of 'insert' and 'replace' of 'text-autospace']
Yijun: If there are spaces in the original text, then the spaces should be preserved
Eric: yes
Fullwidth Collapsing
Previous clreq meeting minutes: https://
xfq: we discussed this issue before and concluded that the spacing around non-fullwidth punctuations should not be changed
[xfq summarizes the discussion in https://
xfq: Unless we can cite the disadvantages of not trimming the spacing around non-fullwidth punctuations, the conclusion of CSSWG is to trim
Eric: those who don't want it can turn it off, otherwise, those who want can't achieve it?
Eric: From this point of view, there is no problem
xfq: Which punctuation to handle has not yet been determined
… like fullwidth closing parenthesis followed by ASCII period or fullwidth right corner bracket followed by ASCII comma
Eric: Korean also has this issue
Eric: dependant on the font
[Discuss the Korean issue]
Eric: Korean is monospace, but not necessary square
Eric: I withdraw my objection
Go through the issue list
https://
w3c/clreq#529
Eric: I don't think we need to list the shared code points among CJKV, this is out of the scope of clreq
Yijun: I agree
Eric: but we can list the shared code points between Chinese and Western text, which is a separate issue, though
Zhengyu: I agree
Zhengyu: I don't understand this comment: w3c/
… they seemed to be talking about the shared code points between Chinese and Western text
[Discuss the differences between Chinese and Japanese punctuations]
xfq: I'll reply to the issue
Zhengyu: w3c/
Next teleconference time
April 25 (Tuesday), 19:00-20:00 (UTC+8)