16:02:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:02:05 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-rdf-star-irc
16:02:05 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:02:06 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), pchampin
16:02:09 <ora> present+
16:02:10 <ktk> p+
16:02:14 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
16:02:15 <gkellogg> present+
16:02:17 <TallTed> Zakim, who's here?
16:02:19 <Zakim> Present: pfps, ktk, gtw, ora, pchampin, doerthe, afs, TallTed, olaf, gkellogg, AZ
16:02:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see doerthe, RRSAgent, ktk, pfps, gkellogg, ora, AndyS, TallTed, csarven, rhiaro, driib, gtw, ghurlbot, Tpt, Zakim, VladimirAlexiev, Timothe, agendabot, pchampin
16:02:23 <doerthe> present+
16:02:29 <pchampin> meeting: RDF-star WG weekly meeting
16:02:30 <TallTed> present+
16:02:32 <AndyS> present+
16:02:45 <pchampin> chair: ora
16:03:04 <pfps> present+
16:03:15 <doerthe> scribe: doerthe
16:03:17 <ora> scribe: doerthe
16:03:48 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-star
16:04:12 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:04:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:04:21 <ktk> present- enrico
16:04:21 <TallTed> RRSAgent, set logs public
16:04:42 <ktk> regregrets+ enrico
16:04:49 <ktk> regrets+ enrico
16:04:52 <pfps> q+
16:05:02 <ora> ack pfps
16:05:03 <pchampin> agenda?
16:05:11 <pchampin> zakim, open item 1
16:05:11 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe: Alexiev, Vladimir -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:05:27 <pchampin> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f2add3af-6743-4f52-8fcc-4f62c6cdd8af/20230323T120000#agenda
16:05:27 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:05:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Scribe: Arndt, Dörthe
16:05:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of last week's minutes:  -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:05:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at  -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
16:05:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Formal creation of task forces:
16:05:31 <agendabot> agenda+ Use case proposal by Peter:  -> 3 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0100.html
16:05:41 <agendabot> agenda+ Update on process concerns/proposal:  -> 4 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0064.html
16:05:41 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting Next week's scribe: Chaves-Fraga, David
16:05:41 <pchampin> zakim, open item 1
16:05:41 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe: Arndt, Dörthe -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:05:44 <pchampin> zakim, open item 2
16:05:44 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Approval of last week's minutes:  -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-rdf-star-minutes.html -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:06:06 <pchampin> s/agendum 1 -- Scribe: Alexiev, Vladimir -- taken up [from agendabot]//
16:06:51 <doerthe> pfps: there is a differerence between tag and label, that should be fixed
16:06:56 <pfps> the minutes from last week mention GitHub tags where GitHub labels were meant
16:07:00 <TallTed> q+
16:07:03 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-star
16:07:06 <ora> ack TallTed
16:07:10 <Souri> present+
16:07:12 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
16:07:37 <doerthe> pchampin: I will change that in the minutes
16:07:50 <TallTed> zakim, bye
16:07:50 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been pfps, ktk, gkellogg_, gtw, ora, pchampin, doerthe, afs, TallTed, olaf, gkellogg, enrico, AZ, AndyS, Souri
16:07:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rdf-star
16:07:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-star
16:07:56 <TallTed> present+
16:07:58 <Souri> not from me
16:07:59 <olaf> present+
16:08:03 <Dominik_T> Dominik_T has joined #rdf-star
16:08:04 <ora> present+
16:08:13 <pchampin> action: pchampin to amend last week's minutes to avoid confusion between 'tag' and 'label'
16:08:26 <ghurlbot> Created -> action #39 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/39
16:08:26 <Dominik_T> present+
16:08:26 <doerthe> ora: do we accept with this modification?
16:08:26 <AZ> present+
16:08:26 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:08:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:09:05 <ktk> p+
16:09:05 <gkellogg> present+
16:09:05 <pfps> present+
16:09:12 <olaf> present+
16:09:12 <AndyS> present+
16:09:12 <doerthe> ... none, then we can accept.
16:09:21 <pfps> resolution on the minutes?
16:09:21 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/f2add3af-6743-4f52-8fcc-4f62c6cdd8af/20230323T120000#agenda
16:09:22 <agendabot> clear agenda
16:09:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Scribe: Arndt, Dörthe
16:09:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of last week's minutes:  -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:09:22 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at  -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
16:09:23 <agendabot> agenda+ Formal creation of task forces:
16:09:26 <agendabot> agenda+ Use case proposal by Peter:  -> 3 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0100.html
16:09:29 <agendabot> agenda+ Update on process concerns/proposal:  -> 4 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0064.html
16:09:32 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting Next week's scribe: Chaves-Fraga, David
16:09:51 <pchampin> RESOLUTION: accept the minutes  https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:10:31 <pchampin> zakim, open next item
16:10:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe: Arndt, Dörthe -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:10:31 <pchampin> zakim, open item 3
16:10:31 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at  -> 2 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:10:31 <pchampin> q+
16:10:45 <TallTed> s/regregrets/regrets/
16:10:54 <gkellogg> q+
16:10:57 <pchampin> ack pchampin
16:11:00 <TallTed> s/p+/present+/
16:11:07 <doerthe> pchampin: change of github settings changed, all can now add and change labels
16:11:29 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:11:45 <gkellogg> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/RDF-Terminology
16:11:53 <pchampin> ghurlbot, close #34
16:11:54 <ghurlbot> Closed -> action #34 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/34
16:12:00 <doerthe> gkellogg: rdf terminology wiki created
16:12:22 <TallTed> q+
16:12:29 <ora> ack TallTed
16:12:36 <pchampin> q+ to explain about the dashboard
16:12:57 <doerthe> ... there was some discussion whether it should be in our github, I want to keep all together
16:13:35 <doerthe> TallTed: I dislike that the wiki does not give notifications, therefore I dislike it
16:13:41 <pfps> q+
16:13:49 <ora> ack pfps
16:13:50 <pfps> q-
16:14:11 <gkellogg> q+
16:14:26 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:14:41 <doerthe> pfps: should we go somewhere else? comparison is there, but not good.
16:15:14 <pchampin> +1 to use markdown pages in the docs/ directory
16:15:38 <doerthe> gkellogg: more feature cause extra work, do we need that given that is more for the current discussion and not for long-lasting access
16:15:58 <AndyS> The wiki is a git repo: `gh repo clone https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg.wiki.git`
16:16:15 <doerthe> ora: I prefer to have everything in github, but understand concerns
16:16:45 <AZ> You can see the versions, e.g., https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/Editor's-guide/_history
16:17:03 <AZ> and there, you can compare arbitrary pairs of revisions
16:17:03 <ktk> q+
16:17:12 <doerthe> TallTed: for me arbitrary version comparisons are important, notifications are as well, I do not see how to get these
16:17:20 <ora> ack ktk
16:17:29 <pchampin> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/Editor's-guide/_compare/d248a753731bcddac4d725bfc5843463f609052c...15f37ab93dda76743b40df1044e89bdb44032582
16:18:03 <ktk> There is indeed an atom feed: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki
16:18:20 <pfps> I can see changes to wiki pages https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki/_compare/1c556ed9dba2c01ec0d73f21a4f04b50dfc0d7cb
16:18:23 <ktk> sorry: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/wiki.atom
16:18:36 <doerthe> ktk: I will test what is possible
16:18:43 <gkellogg> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/tree/main/docs
16:19:21 <gkellogg> scribe+
16:19:35 <gkellogg> gkellogg: gkellogg to move existing wiki entries to the /docs directory
16:19:47 <gkellogg> scribe-
16:19:54 <pfps> q+
16:20:05 <ora> ack pchampin
16:20:05 <Zakim> pchampin, you wanted to explain about the dashboard
16:20:23 <gkellogg> q+
16:20:37 <ora> ack pfps
16:20:48 <doerthe> pfps: dashbord should contain all actions with filter accordingly
16:21:01 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:21:02 <pfps> all my completed actions should be closed
16:21:14 <ktk> q+
16:21:21 <doerthe> pfps: the actions  mentioned should be clased
16:21:37 <AndyS> q+
16:21:44 <ora> ack ktk
16:22:10 <AndyS> q-
16:22:13 <pchampin> q+
16:22:16 <doerthe> ktk: what is the apporach for closing actions in genral?
16:22:28 <TallTed> q+
16:22:39 <gkellogg> q+
16:22:45 <pchampin> q-
16:23:06 <doerthe> ora: I trust people if they say that actions are not contraversial
16:23:27 <doerthe> TallTed: I would prefer that the closing is announced here
16:25:05 <ora> ack TallTed
16:25:53 <pfps> My actions in the main working group repository, #28, #27, #26, and #17, are all complete
16:25:54 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/27 -> Action 27 [closed] present a use case process to the working group (on pfps) due  9 Mar 2023
16:25:54 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/28 -> Action 28 write a proposal document for a WG process (on pfps) due 16 Mar 2023
16:25:54 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/17 -> Action 17 set up tf to get use cases set up (on pfps) due 16 Feb 2023
16:25:55 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/26 -> Action 26 send message so that ora and adrian can have the minutes fixed up (on pfps) due  9 Mar 2023
16:25:57 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:26:42 <pfps> close #28
16:26:43 <ghurlbot> Closed -> action #28 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/28
16:26:49 <doerthe> gkellogg: I am concerned that if we announce all closed issues we will waist working group time
16:26:52 <pfps> close #27
16:26:53 <ghurlbot> Closed -> action #27 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/27
16:26:56 <pfps> close #26
16:26:57 <ghurlbot> Closed -> action #26 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/26
16:27:08 <pfps> close #17
16:27:09 <ghurlbot> Closed -> action #17 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/17
16:27:18 <Souri> s/waist/waste/
16:27:31 <ora> q?
16:27:32 <pfps> q+
16:27:38 <ora> ack pfps
16:27:46 <ktk> Issue #31 is done as well, close #31
16:27:46 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/31 -> Action 31 chairs to contact I18N group to start discussion (on ktk, rdfguy)
16:27:47 <doerthe> ora: if things are not controversial, we do not need to loose time on that
16:27:57 <ktk> close #31
16:27:59 <ghurlbot> Closed -> action #31 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/31
16:29:30 <doerthe> pfps: there should be a place where we can all look up which issues are closed, this information should at least be visible till a next meeting
16:29:47 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:29:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
16:30:04 <doerthe> TallTed: I really just want small announcements, such that we can see them in the minutes
16:30:33 <pfps> q-
16:30:39 <doerthe> pfps: we can also add them all in the agenda if we completed them, then they show up
16:31:25 <pchampin> agenda?
16:31:32 <pchampin> zakim, open item 4
16:31:32 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Formal creation of task forces: -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:32:45 <doerthe> pchampin: We can create task forces, but these need to be created officially, we have 3 task forces: editors, use cases and semantics
16:32:52 <pfps> sounds good to me
16:33:05 <Souri> +1
16:33:24 <ora> RESOLUTION: formally establish task forces for Editors, Use Cases, and Semantics
16:33:29 <gkellogg> +
16:33:32 <doerthe> +1
16:33:33 <gkellogg> +1
16:33:33 <AndyS> +1
16:33:37 <Dominik_T> +1
16:33:39 <ora> +1
16:33:57 <doerthe> ora: what does it mean in practice?
16:34:19 <doerthe> pchampin: I will create task forces
16:34:20 <pchampin> action: pchampin, create the task forces: Editors, Use Cases, Semantics
16:35:21 <pchampin> gkellogg's proposed agenda item: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2023Mar/0108.html
16:35:52 <Souri> s/loose time/lose time/
16:36:28 <doerthe> gkellogg: last week we discussed to tag open issues, it happened, but we are now waiting, can we discuss that now?
16:36:29 <pfps> q+
16:36:32 <gkellogg> w3c/rdf-concepts#16
16:36:33 <ghurlbot> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/16 -> Pull Request 16 Security considerations (gkellogg) spec:enhancement
16:36:48 <doerthe> ora: what is open?
16:37:43 <doerthe> gkellogg: instructions for editors to what they can proceed on and what requires discussion
16:39:01 <pchampin> q+
16:39:09 <ora> ack pfps
16:39:34 <ora> ack pchampin
16:39:49 <doerthe> pfps: I agree that we need some sort of process, to know what needs  to be done
16:40:51 <ora> q+
16:41:03 <ora> ack ora
16:41:08 <AndyS> I have 4 editorial PRs: https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/pulls/afs
16:41:10 <doerthe> pchampin: proposal: mark actions as ready to be closed, close in meeting, we can do similar for pull requests, these should be visible before the meeting, if necessary, we discuss them in the meeting
16:41:31 <pfps> q+
16:41:31 <doerthe> ora: does that mean that normative changes become agenda items?
16:41:35 <doerthe> pchampin: yes
16:41:40 <ora> ack pfps
16:42:35 <AndyS> q+
16:42:42 <ora> ack AndyS
16:42:46 <doerthe> pfps: maybe that is too much of an bottom up process, people should ask the working group and not just create requests
16:43:24 <doerthe> AndyS: I think that is the work of the editors to look over the changes
16:43:56 <doerthe> ora: are you afraid that things are changed without being noticed
16:44:20 <doerthe> pfps: yes, I am afraid that some things get in without consideration
16:44:37 <AndyS> q+
16:44:54 <AndyS> q-
16:44:54 <ora> ack AndyS
16:44:54 <doerthe> ... example: RDF-JSON, that has not been discussed in the working group
16:45:19 <doerthe> ... also grammar, what if it is wrong?
16:45:24 <gkellogg> s/RDF-JSON/rdf:JSON/
16:45:56 <doerthe> ... working group should decide how much we look into the grammar and its details
16:46:26 <TallTed> q+
16:46:37 <ora> ack TallTed
16:46:48 <doerthe> pchampin: rdf:JSON is just an issue marker, it is an open issue, it is not dangerous
16:47:35 <AndyS> q+
16:47:39 <doerthe> TallTed: issue markers are just to get awareness of discussions, but they do by themselves not change documents
16:47:41 <ora> ack AndyS
16:47:54 <doerthe> TallTed: what can the editors do?
16:48:23 <doerthe> ... I have some pull requests and am waiting.
16:48:34 <gkellogg> s/TallTed/AndyS/
16:48:58 <TallTed> q+
16:49:21 <doerthe> ora: I am also concerned that the process of official approval can hold us back
16:49:38 <ora> ack TallTed
16:50:26 <pfps> I agree that editorial changes can be made just by the editors.
16:51:55 <gkellogg> q+
16:52:04 <doerthe> TallTed: editor's jobs are to put group decisions into group documents, since we have multiple editors, editorial changes can be approved and looked over by the different editors
16:52:23 <ora> ack gkellogg
16:52:43 <doerthe> ora: I think that is a good process
16:52:58 <AndyS> q+
16:53:18 <pfps> My view, however, is that editorial changes should be considered narrowly, i.e., that adding a new section on rdf:JSON is not an editorial change.
16:53:38 <doerthe> gkellogg: I think we should have a process in which changes stay open at least a week, that enables everyone to see what is happening and maybe raise concerns
16:53:58 <doerthe> ... issue makers can then be used
16:54:15 <pfps> q+
16:54:19 <doerthe> ... not all discussions need to be done in meetings
16:54:23 <ora> ack AndyS
16:54:36 <doerthe> ora: I think we already have a good process in place
16:55:21 <doerthe> AndyS: what are group decisions? just things discussed in our meeting?
16:55:45 <ora> ack pfps
16:55:55 <doerthe> TallTed: group decisions are also general agreements how we proceed
16:56:41 <pchampin> q?
16:57:02 <doerthe> pfps: there was no process, some things stayed open, we need a way to ask for discussions
16:57:25 <doerthe> TallTed: use e-mail, git, ... and name them
16:57:41 <pchampin> q+
16:57:52 <ora> ack pchampin
16:57:57 <doerthe> ora: chairs should look into pr's
16:58:07 <doerthe> ... till next meeting
16:58:29 <ktk> Souri: can you scribe next week? it's David Chavez in the list but he can't
16:59:04 <doerthe> pchampin: can we agree that things marked as editorial for some time and have so far not lead to discussions can be merged?
16:59:08 <ktk> close #25
16:59:09 <ghurlbot> Closed -> action #25 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/25
16:59:22 <pchampin> ack pchampin
16:59:23 <pfps> I'm fine with allowing editorial PRs with no needs discussion labels to be merged
16:59:33 <TallTed> +1
16:59:40 <doerthe> ... discussions should happen outside the meeting if possible
17:00:10 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:00:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:00:54 <TallTed> hurrah for `/i/`!
17:01:28 <TallTed> s|/i/|i/|
17:01:46 <olaf> olaf has left #rdf-star
17:06:01 <pchampin> s|agendum 1 -- Scribe: Arndt, Dörthe -- taken up [from agendabot]||
17:07:37 <pchampin> i/gkellogg: last week/Topic: Handling pending PRs
17:07:39 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:07:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:09:51 <pchampin> i/TallTed: I dislike/Subtopic: Github Wiki//
17:10:07 <pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/03/16-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:10:15 <pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/03/30-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:12:33 <pchampin> i|pfps: dashbord should|Subtopic: -> Action dashboard https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3/
17:12:36 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:12:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:46:31 <pfps> pfps has left #rdf-star
17:53:07 <gkellogg> gkellogg has joined #rdf-star
17:53:15 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:53:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/23-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
<pchampin> present- gkellogg_
<pchampin> present- enrico